[desertpenguin]

GD is how I want to raise my ds, I don't want to ever spank him. I wasn't raised this way, and I know that the members of both my family and my dh's family will find it odd and/or criticize us. I was trying to tell my dad that spanking doesn't teach a child anything but that violence is oK when administered to someone smaller and weaker. He told me that where he went wrong with raising me was that he didn't spank me enough when I was little. Ugh. The discussion didn't go much further, but he did quote "Spare the rod, spoil the child." I disagree with this but I didn't really know any good rebuttles. I'm going to be posting this in Spirtuality too because I'm wondering if there might be an misunderstanding of this phrase as there is with some other biblical phrases. TIA.

 

[sophmama]

I believe you'd find a ton of resources as far as refuting him biblically at gentlechristianmothers.org

 

[lillaurensmomma]

The biggest misunderstanding is that the quote "spare the rod, spoil the child" isn't even from the Bible...

And I do agree that Gentle Christian Mothers is a great place to get info, as is www.aolff.org If you do a search you can find a lot of information about the "rod" passages and how they have been mistranslated.

j

 

[AngelBee]

I am glad you are finding a better way for your children

 

[binxsmom]

i read an interesting take on "spare the rod, spoil the child." it may have been dr. sears, not sure though. anyway, in biblical times a shepherd guarded and tended to his flock just as we tend to our children. the rod/staff was not used to beat the valued sheep but to guide and direct them.

 

[mamaduck]

I would not waste time trying to convince your parents. Not to sound harsh, really. Just -- it is a massive thing to admit that you hurt your children in this way. And by agreeing with your methods and ideas, they would be admitting their own mistakes. Sometimes its just too painful. Their kids are grown, and they can't change what they did. I wonder if the kindest thing is to stand firm in your own mind, and let the argument go. You do not need their validation to know what is best for you child. I understand it would be nice to have though.

 

[julesinottawa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by binxsmom i read an interesting take on "spare the rod, spoil the child." it may have been dr. sears, not sure though. anyway, in biblical times a shepherd guarded and tended to his flock just as we tend to our children. the rod/staff was not used to beat the valued sheep but to guide and direct them.

Yes! I heard this take on this quote earlier this year in a video series I was doing with a mom's group and I was SO happy to find this out. I really agree with it and it resolved a bit of conflict I was having.

I don't know if you'll ever convince your dad but maybe as he sees your way working he will eventually come around.

 

[BelovedK]

I'm with Binxmom, I think that quote is sorely overused in the wrong way. My parents did it to me, i try to gently guide my DD & DS (not always succesfully, but i try)

 

[desertpenguin]

I understand that him agreeing with me about spanking would be a sore issue. My only concern is that I won't be able to leave ds with him when ds is older for fear of my dad punishing him for something. The more I think about parenting styles, it doesn't seem like I will be able to trust anyone with ds until he's like 8 or 9! :LOL

ETA: Thanx everyone for your insights and the links, they're very helpful.

 

[canadiyank]

Ah mamaduck, that's so true. My mom even asks me now about my childhood (if I was happy, etc.) and I don't want to be completely honest to her b/c it will break her heart. She did what she had the resources for, kwim, and it was vastly better than how she was parented.

I second the ideas of www.aolff.org and www.gentlemothering.com and the forums at www.gentlechristianmothers.com

To add a little to the protecting the sheep concept of the rod, which is true, it was also used to defend the sheep, as in we use our rod of authority to protect our children from things that could hurt them. Guide and protect vs. punish...I like that image.

 

[CJNeeley]

I found this interesting (especially the very last article)...
http://www.stophitting.com/religion/faithMaterial.php

The biggest thing that gets me about people, is that all of their "proof" is distorted quotes from the OT. Nothing Jesus said or did in the NT would remotely support corporal punishment. (And if He wouldn't condone fighting against their oppressors why on earth would He condone smacking around a child you're supposed to be taking care of?)

But to answer your question about misunderstanding of a biblical quote, I would suggest read the whole chapter the quoted verse is in and see if it's taken out of context or if surrounding verses clarify it's meaning or it the tone of the whole thing says something different to you, etc. Because then you'll be deciding for yourself instead of just accepting someone else's interpretation (whether your father's or ours because your's is best for you).

 

[desertpenguin]

I agree CJNeely about reading the quote in question in context. The only problem is that I can't neccessarily find a specific quote, so I've been looking into all the "rod" verses. I suppose my dad and I will have a Bible study of sorts eventually. I'm not seeking validation from him so much for my own benefit as for my ds's benefit. I know that my dad would very much like to babysit my ds when he gets older, and if I ever found out that my dad had hit my ds...I'm not sure what I would do. We wouldn't talk for a long time, though, that's for sure. This is such a sensitive issue, but I feel it is something that my dad and I need to discuss.
BTW, Welcome to MDC.

 

[CJNeeley]

The stop hitting link starts off with a list of common spare the rod verses (I think).

One of the most common ones is Proverbs 13:24.

 

[pjabslenz]

I was talking to my dh about the spare the rod quote earlier today. I am reading Kid Cooperation by Elizabeth Pantley and her opinion on that quote is that the shepherd didn't beat his sheep with the rod but used it to guide the sheep. I've often wondered about that phrase myself.

 

[Piglet68]

Having worked with herd animals myself (horses) I'm very familiar with how they work - herd animals are easy to direct without ever touching them, as they are extremely sensitive to body language. I'm sure in the days of the bible authors, everybody was so familiar with sheep, goats, and other herd animals that this was just obvious to them. But in our modern world, too many people have no clue.

It's true, a shepherd need never touch his sheep - the staff is used, among other things, as an extention of his arm, much as a lunging whip is used by a horseman as an extension of his arm, never to touch the animal. People who perport to live their lives "by the Bible" should read it in the original language and make sure the translation is not only accurate, but that their interpretation of it is as well. It's simply pure ignorance to suggest a rod was used for beating.

 

[maxwill129]

Quote:

Originally Posted by binxsmom in biblical times a shepherd guarded and tended to his flock just as we tend to our children. the rod/staff was not used to beat the valued sheep but to guide and direct them.

Yes! I'm doing an in-depth study on spanking and the Bible and am finding much of the same things!

Also, Piglet68 makes a great point. Too many people don't go back to the Greek and Hebrew when studying the Bible to find out exactly what the original said and what it meant. You also need to read the entire passage to figure out what one verse means. People take verses out of context all the time.

S.

 

[Cheshire]

I'm so glad you guys posted all the links! I've always felt that the verse is misinterpreted -- that it means if you spare discipline (not spanking, but guidance) then you spoil the child. I'd never done any research into it and am glad for a jumping off point.

As far as approaching your dad about it -- if you feel you can trust him to follow your wishes then simply explain that you both may not meet eye-to-eye on the subject and you are not trying to change his mind on the subject or by not spanking your child are you saying that he was a bad parent but the simple fact is that you are the parent in this situation. As the parent you have to trust him to follow your wishes and that if your son does something that in your father's eyes would warrant a spanking then he is to refrain himself from hitting, tell him what is acceptable for discipline and if that doesn't work he can call you and you will come pick up your son and deal with the behavior. Tell him you don't want him to have to be the disciplinarian -- he is the grandad and you want their time together to be special.

As others have stated you probably won't change his mind but he should at least be able to respect your wishes as a parent. Also, explain to him whatever the consequences will be if he does decide to hit your child -- if you won't ever see him again or if all the visits will be supervised, etc.

Your kid, your rules and if you need to put it that bluntly to him.

Know that we're thinking of you, what a tough situation to be in.

 

[desertpenguin]

Thank you Cheshire.

I'm sure after we have our discussion, his mind will remain unchanged, and I will ultimately end up telling him exactly what you have said-"call me if there's a problem." At least I don't have to worry about this for another couple of years. In some ways, I think that he will respect my wishes because he knows what kinds of problems it could lead to if he did otherwise...We sorta went down that road before after he wouldn't stop telling me to let ds CIO, we had a huge arguement and did not speak to each other for a week afterwards. He said he missed his "grandboy" very much and apologized. But at the same time, I know that my dad has a very bad temper. He started yelling at his dog in front of ds the other day and it was very disconcerting for both me and ds. Time tells all I suppose.

 

[maxwill129]

Okay, I found some scripture that I think proves that spanking is wrong. You can interpret this how you want. I'll write a brief note on what I've found these to mean in my studies on spanking and child rearing.

Ephesians 6:4 says "And now a word to you fathers. Don't make your children angry by the way you treat them. Rather, bring them up with the discipline and instruction approved by the Lord."

Okay, I've studied this verse and think that this means parents are not to terrorize their children and make them angry towards the parents because of the way they were treated. What is approved by the Lord is to continually parent them because that is their responsibility given to them by the Lord. I think the Lord wants us to love our children- that is our job. One of my study Bibles says that "Children should be objects of tender, loving care." The Lord also wants us to nurture and correct our child (guide them along a godly path- again my study Bible says "Fathers and mothers who do not discipline their children are parents who are themselves undisciplined and disobedient to God's will.").

Proverbs 22:6 says "Teach your children to choose the right path; and when they are older, they will remain upon it."

Big emphasis on the word teach. Spanking is not teaching your children anything- you need to show your child respect in order to teach them respect, show your child love to teach them love, etc. And choosing the right path refers to dedicating, motivating, and instructing your children to do what God has best equipped them to do.

I don't know if anyone is still interested in this, but thought I would share some of my notes. I HATE how the Bible is misinterpreted all the time. Yes, I think you could very easily read Proverbs 13:24 to say that hitting your child is okay (even though I think it clearly is not about spanking), but I think other verses show that it's not okay to spank.

S.

 

[desertpenguin]