speaking of MD's...

popsick · Mar 17, 2004

I took my 2yo in for an ear infection follow up, and saw the new Dr. in the practice. 
The first thing she said when she came in was a comment about ds not being vax'd. I proceed to ignore and the visit went well up until the end. 
Ds's ears are fine now but then she starts in again about my position on vax, I'm putting everyone else at risk, pregnant mothers who will have deformed babies, babies who will die if there were an outbreak of X, Y, or Z, etc. So then we get to the mercury, and this, BTW, is my #1 problem with vax's. (I have an autistic son, and a dd with an autoimmune disorder[JRA]). She says they can't prove anything, blah, blah, cites all the studies, I cite all the conflict of interest in said studies, all the studies done abroad where they stopped using thimerosal years ago, and boy is she getting upset by this time. I ask if they use mercury free vax in the office, she says they have to be requested. WTF? I was unaware of this, I thought that all kids vax were now, (after the old supply was used up) thimerosal free!!! She knew that this was wrong, but had no other comment other than, It's Bush's fault, because he won't give grants to the drug co's to manufacture merc free vax's. Who cares who's right or wrong? I'm trying to protect my baby!! 
Anyway, I thought we were just having a discussion. I was calm and collected, I expect this, (to a certain degree), but she was visibly upset and ended up throwing her arms up in the air and saying that I have the right to do what I think is best and to "take care of my kids" and walked out of the room. 
All in all, I feel really wierd about the whole thing. She certainly didn't change my stance, but I'm just left feeling a little wierd, about an MD almost losing it because a decision that I have made thinking that I'm right, but also, her thinking that she's right. Anyone know what I mean? Or has anyone had a "discussion" like this with a Dr. before? 
Sometimes I just feel like I want to be like everyone else. Even though I don't. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/confused.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Confused">: 
popsick

polka123 · Mar 17, 2004

"you putting the pg women at risk..." 
"bush's fault" <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/rolleyes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="rolleyes">: 
wow, that dr. handled that very mature, now didn't she? 
i've had run-ins like that too.... 
kinda makes ya wonder how 1 little no-vaxing mama can get a mighty dr. so upset?? 
sounds like someone got caught in a lie- the dr.<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/orngbiggrin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="orange big grin">

Xenogenesis · Mar 17, 2004

Wow. I'm sorry she acted so immaturely. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/hug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hug"> 's

5796 · Mar 17, 2004

shelbean91 · Mar 17, 2004

Our ped didn't quite wig out like that, but she was bothered, and I only refuse a few vax's. She first said we need to vax for the common diseases b/c they're so prevalent, then she said we need to vax for the almost extinct diseases b/c we need to get rid of them. I didn't even question her too hard, just I don't want those, I don't think they're necessary. 
Didn't occur to me until after the fact that I have to sign a waiver to refuse and also sign if they do get a vax. Guess the docs are covered either way.

charmarty · Mar 17, 2004

I told a new doc we though we would try that my dd`s will never be vaxed again. He asked why, I told him of the reastion and what we are left with,and he goes, " hmmmm...That must have been the MMR that did that." 
HOLY COW!!!!!!! I said to him, "If you know that it may be dangerous then WHY would you continue to expect your patients to get it?" 
Lets just say that he left me going<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/headscratch.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="headscratch"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/headscratch.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="headscratch"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/headscratch.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="headscratch"> Because he didnt have agood solid answer. I will be seeing him again. I feel this doc has a teeny eeensy weency bit of an open mind and is willing to at least hear what I have to say. You can educate a person an aweful lot in 15 min.<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"> 
Sorry your doc is such an [email protected]@. BTDT. Its hard.<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/hug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hug">

Jen123 · Mar 18, 2004

SO this new doctor was using FEAR to intimidate you into doing what SHE wanted to do ? Yeah , that's mature. 
Yes I had a very similar discussion with a doctor who went so far as to remove my daughter from his practice. Hmmm , funny thing happened and I *might*have hmmm accidentally? written a hot letter to his , hmmm I dunno boss? about patients rights and not abusing his misplaced power. I also got the hospital to consider that a 'free' appointment. I didn't go to be yelled at. I went to see what was wrong with my daughter. I don't pay for services not filled. 
I've been turned away several times from doctors offices because my kids aren't "up to date" on their vax schedule. I fail to see how that's relative to their current situation. Started seeing a chiropractor and life's been good ever since.

menudo · Mar 18, 2004

Know what is scary? I had a Doctor do the same thing and leave the room angry when she told me my DD-then 5 months old and 100% breastfed-was OBESE and needed feedings cut. When I stated the facts, she tried to argue and left in open anger. 
Yikes! Imagine if back then I had a clue about vaccines!!

Xenogenesis · Mar 18, 2004

Jen123 - <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/thumb.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="thumbs up"> 
- and - 
bebesho2 - good for you for having had one of those beautifully plump breastfed-babies. I just love what breastmilk can do! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/coolshine.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="sunshine"> 
Ps. popsick - the last line of your original post should be your signature line. I love it. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/ROTFLMAO.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="rotflmao">

SagMom · Mar 18, 2004

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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Originally posted by popsick 
Sometimes I just feel like I want to be like everyone else. Even though I don't. 
popsick</td>
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I've felt like this. 
I've also had conversations with our (old) doc that were similar to the one you had. My feeling is that when someone challenges their beliefs, they feel threatened. If what you said about vaxes is true, then that brings into question all the doc learned in medical school about vaxes and immunity and disease. Very threatening. And, since the doc wasn't seeking out this info, she probably wasn't ready to hear it, yk? 
I'm not defending the docs, just saying that I think their anger comes from fear. Also, if they have kids of their own whom they've vaxed, then it becomes personal, yk? 
I've had conversations about homebirth that ended with the doc throwing his hands up and storming out in anger too. 
Some people will be open to discussion, other's won't.

PuppyFluffer · Mar 19, 2004

I truly believe that ignorance is really bliss. 
It is a burden to become educated because with information comes the need to act. When you don't know, you can just go along without thinking .....just like sheep in a herd, fish is a school, birds in a flock.....but we're not herd animals. We are capable of so much more critical thinking but so few of us in the population exercise this. And unfortunately, it is usually a bad situation that sets us to questioning. 
Doctors don't want to have their thinking upset. It is a shame that their minds are so closed. 
We are lucky to see a family practitioner who does not administer vaxes, does not have a problem with not vaxing and gives me no trouble about it at all. When we go to see her, we talk about health and building it....not sickness and treating symptoms. We talk about the whole child, her attitudes, her emotions, her physical developments, her diet and nutrition, how she plays, what she likes......not just her physical parts. It is nice to have a doctor that understands that she is a whole person and cares about her as such. DD likes this lady, is not afraid of her and lets her touch her and look her over. This is because she does it with respect, talks to her about what she is going to do before she does it, shows her the stethascope and the ear scope and even looks in mommy's ears to show her how it's used. A doctor who respects a child, respects the parents too. 
I'm curious, how many of you who have doctors who get angry, defensive or otherwise upset about your non vaxing choice....are kind and understanding with your child? Does your kid cry when the dr examines them? Is your child visibly upset at the doctor being close to them and in their space? I have only had two doctor experiences with my child. One was really bad. The others have been with the fam. practitioner and have been great. I'd love to hear the feedback on this.

Xenogenesis · Mar 22, 2004

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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">I'm curious, how many of you who have doctors who get angry, defensive or otherwise upset about your non vaxing choice....are kind and understanding with your child? Does your kid cry when the dr examines them? Is your child visibly upset at the doctor being close to them and in their space? I have only had two doctor experiences with my child. One was really bad. The others have been with the fam. practitioner and have been great.</td>
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This sounds like a good question to post on a thread of its own. I'm also curious to see what kinds of answers you'd get. Sometimes I think communication skills should be heavily focussed on in public schooling.

PuppyFluffer · Mar 22, 2004

Ok will do!

Peppermint · Mar 23, 2004

I once had quite a discussion with a pediatrician when I told her that we were rethinking vax but were sure we would not be using any of those derived from aborted fetuses. She asked where I had heard that, as it certainly was NOT TRUE!<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/rolleyes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="rolleyes">: 
I calmly told her that, "well, actually it is true, but that's neither here nor there as in the future I will make all appointments with Dr. S (one of partners) who I know is aware of this." That made her really angry, she mentioned that since she had been to med school and I had not, that what she knows is right/true, and I am wrong. I wish I could've been a fly on the wall when Dr. S told her that I was right. 
Today was my son's 2 month appt. and he was due for his first shots, which I refused. The Dr. tried to scare me, pointed out how beautiful my son is and what a shame it would be, etc (evidently ugly babies don't need vax <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/yikes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="EEK!"> :LOL <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/headscratch.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="headscratch"> ). He said that they had a 10 month old patient who got meningitis, b/c his parents didn't have him vaxed (mentioned that they decided this b/c their older son is autistic), and what a tragedy it was, etc. He did scare me when he said that the baby was a nursing SAH baby (which I had asked to point out my son's low risk), now I'm wondering if that story wasn't just a little too convienient.<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/headscratch.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="headscratch"> . The Dr. is super nice and really good with the kids, great personality- I just wonder how much he really knows about vax as he said that he wishes the babies could be vaxed even earlier (when I said we'd be waiting until at least 6 months for anything- as suggested by Dr. Jay in an article I read).

Jen123 · Mar 23, 2004

Why is it when doctors use fear to intimidate it's for a "good cause", yet if I were to intimidate you it would be called "bullying" ? 
I had a doctor try to intimidate me also in to vaxing. I found it interesting the more I "fed" him information wise the more "facts" he had concerning my exact demographic. When I pointed that out to him he stammered. I demanded proof . I wanted to talk to these parents who homeschooled three kids whose third child died because it wasn't vaxed properly. He couldn't produce them. Muttered something about privacy , ethics , morals. I said that until he showed me PROOF that these people even existed I wasn't doing a da...um dang thing.

turquoise · Mar 25, 2004

Man, where did I read that article that dr's get "grants" or other government funding if they get a certain percentage of their patients vaxed on schedule?<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/headscratch.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="headscratch"> Talk about a conflict of interest. 
Grrr! sorry you had to get this from the dr. What a load of bull...next thing you know she'll be telling you that vax eradicated polio, measles, and diptheria, and other assorted fairy tales. Pull up a chair, I'm sure she could keep you entertained for hours.

Gitti · Mar 25, 2004

Well, the first time I stood up to a dr. was when my son was 13. Had nothing to do with vax - unfortunately. 
He had woken up with really stiff knees for a few days and our reg. MD ref. us to an orthop. spezialist. 
Anyway, funniest thing happened while we were waiting to see him (he made us wait for over an hour which turned out to be a blessing) I opened a magazine and found the description of a disease with symptomes exactly link the ones my son was presenting. 
It was called Osgood-Shlotters Disease (boy did I missp. that!) and boys who grow quickly and are very active can get it. They need to slow down for a few weeks and get past the growth spurt. That's all! 
Just then we were called into the office. 
He examined, mentioned the disease and BINGO! I Had been right. I knew that we needed no further help. But he went on to explain how my son needed surgery, first in one knee, then in the other. I then told him that we would wait a while and see. 
Boy did he get upset. I was neglecting my son and he would turn out to be a cripple confined to a wheelchair. 
I told him in a calm manner that I would be responsible for his care and he would be fine - never telling him that I had read that article in his office. 
He ranted and carried on and almost refused to let me take my son home until I lost it and told him that he was taking advantage of a situation and I had just lost all my respect for him. He called the nurse for me to sign some papers which I threw at her and walked out. 
Not a good example for my son - ? 
My son just followed me out. Throughout the whole mess he had not said one word but when we got into the car I could tell that he was proud of me. 
I cried and he laughed and found the whole thing so funny. 
Anyway, that's the son who's a surgeon now. :LOL 
And I meant to tell you, the stiffness was gone within a few weeks and he never had it again.<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/rolleyes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="rolleyes">:

Lindy · Mar 25, 2004

I had a doctor yell at me and slam the door of the examing room just because I refused to vax. Not to mention telling me that every child that ever died would be my fault for not vaxing my own dc's. Good grief, you think that they could just talk to you in a professional manner!

pilesoflaundry · Mar 25, 2004

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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Originally posted by jess7396 
He said that they had a 10 month old patient who got meningitis, b/c his parents didn't have him vaxed (mentioned that they decided this b/c their older son is autistic), and what a tragedy it was, etc. He did scare me when he said that the baby was a nursing SAH baby (which I had asked to point out my son's low risk), now I'm wondering if that story wasn't just a little too convienient.<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/headscratch.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="headscratch"> . The Dr. is super nice and really good with the kids, great personality- I just wonder how much he really knows about vax as he said that he wishes the babies could be vaxed even earlier (when I said we'd be waiting until at least 6 months for anything- as suggested by Dr. Jay in an article I read).</td>
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I think every pro-vax ped has the 'infant under a year with meningitis' story in their scare tactics. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/rolleyes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="rolleyes">: 
My old ped right before we moved was so-so ok with us not vaxing but then said hib was important because in in her residency she saw "an unvaxed 9 month old with hib meningitis" because the parents were worried about shots. 
The more I talk to non-vaxing parents the more I realize most docs have the same hprror stories. Must teach them in med school.

pilesoflaundry · Mar 25, 2004

Gitti, my dad had the same thing. They told him his options were a body cast for 6 months, cortisone shots in his knees or no sports and no playing etc for 6 months. He passed up the football season and after school every day rested and he was fine. Sometimes you just need to get kids to slow down!

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