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Discussion Starter #1
I was speaking with a lady today that was telling me that when she gave birth to her son that she didn't even know that she had an episiotomy until afterwards when the doctor told her they needed to stitch her up.<br><br>
Is this general practice in most places to "just do" and episiotomy without even asking the mother for her concent.<br><br>
I'm sorry but I would damn well want to know if someone was going to cut me open so I could tell them to shove it.<br><br>
I am very angry to find that this is common practice at the hospital in our town. I mean not only is it common practice to do an episiotomy, it is common practice to do it without asking!<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/angry.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="angry">
 

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sounds pretty normal to me. unfortunatley most docs just do it.<br>
i had one with my first, and had pain from it for over 7 years.<br>
with my second child, i was SCREAMING at the doctor to NOT do one. and he just blew me off and said "its only your second baby, you'll probably need one" i finally grabbed ahold of his gown and said "if you cut me, i will sue you"<br>
and he backed off.<br><br>
its sad, but i think they can pretty much do whatever they want <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad">
 

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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>cravenab00</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10111738"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">"if you cut me, i will sue you"</div>
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I totally want to make a cafe press shirt with that quote on it in REALLY BIG PRINT and hand them out to women entering the hospital. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol">
 

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Educate your clients on routine hospital procedures including non consented episiotomies. Then you as her doula, watch for if the care provider reaches for the scissors. At that time you can tell your client, "Suzie, Dr. Soandso is about to do an episiotomy, do you have any questions?" Or tell the partner that it is HIS JOB to watch for those scissors and to "remind" the doctor of the no episiotomy section of her birth plan.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Yup, don't worry. Once I found that this is routine there I will absolutely be watching for those scissors. I just can't believe that they can just cut a woman open without her consent!
 

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yep, apparently it is routine here too. i screamed at them DON'T CUT ME in the middle of things b/c i saw the doc pic up something that looked horribly like scissors! Thank the gods my DH was there to protect me <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/angry.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="angry">
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>trimestersdoula</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10113146"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Yup, don't worry. Once I found that this is routine there I will absolutely be watching for those scissors. I just can't believe that they can just cut a woman open without her consent!</div>
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Because if you read the consents that women sign when they're admitted, they usually say something like "I understand that if I have a vaginal delivery, my doctor may make an incision into the skin surrounding my vagina in order to prevent tearing and make the delivery easier" (I copied that ALMOST word for word from a real consent form...just changed enough to avoid copyright issues and me getting in trouble).<br><br>
So they technically have her concent.<br><br>
I'm *not* trying to defend the practice at all. Just saying what their rationale is (and what protects them legally for the most part).<br><br>
Kelly
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks for that. I will make darn sure to mention this to my clients.
 

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I don't know if it is routine here or not. With all of my kids I otld the d's during prenatal appts leading up to my delivery I would rather tear than be cut. I told them again upon entering the hospital. Even when the vacuum extraction was done on my dd I told them I would rather tear, and tear I did, 2nd degree.
 

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I don't think I have ever seen an epis done in the hospital that the woman was asked first- I think that they consider it to be a potentially necessary measure and part of the blanket consent--<br>
now I have said things like I see the scissors- I think that the doctor is wanting to do an epis and women have said no- don't cut me<br><br>
to make a comment that stitching may not mean she was cut she may have torn-- or did the doc say I have to stitch up the episiotomy..
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Arwyn</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10111767"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I totally want to make a cafe press shirt with that quote on it in REALLY BIG PRINT and hand them out to women entering the hospital. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"></div>
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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/biglaugh.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="laugh">:<br>
omg too funny!<br>
order one of those Ts for me too!<br><br>
sadly, its true. many docs cut epis without warning. I even had one doctor threaten the mother that without the episi, the baby would die.<br>
the mother refused, the baby was fine. she didn't even tear!
 

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My sisters doctor cut her even as her dh yelled, "she doesn't want to be cut!" The baby was already out up to his eyebrows when they cut her. He would have been born on the next contraction either way. It makes me very angry. At the hospital she went to one of the staff told me that "most of the doctors here cut most of the time."<br><br>
In the birthing center where I work, women are very rarely cut. When they are, it is done because baby appears to be in distress. Mothers are not asked, it is done quickly along with other measures needed to get the baby out and handed to NICU.
 

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I've only been to homebirths, but I know episiotomies were still quite common at the hospital where I birthed my first baby in 2001. A couple of years ago I heard a doula say the rate was going down but I don't know how much. My fear of another episiotomy was the big catalyst that drove me to homebirth and now pursue midwifery so some good has come out of it... but the episiotomy was awful.<br><br>
It's almost 2008 and I'm still hearing lots of stories of mandatory episiotomy for all FTM or OBs who still give all moms a cut. It steams me! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/angry.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="angry">
 

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Discussion Starter #14
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>mwherbs</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10113310"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I don't think I have ever seen an epis done in the hospital that the woman was asked first- I think that they consider it to be a potentially necessary measure and part of the blanket consent--<br>
now I have said things like I see the scissors- I think that the doctor is wanting to do an epis and women have said no- don't cut me<br><br>
to make a comment that stitching may not mean she was cut she may have torn-- or did the doc say I have to stitch up the episiotomy..</div>
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No he told her he had done an epistiotomy and then he had a new nurse in there watching as he stitched up the episiotomy so that she could see how it was done.<br><br>
She has had one C/S and one natural birth and no they are letting her decide this time around. The experience was so traumatic for her and so painful that she wants to opt for the C/S this time.
 

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that's terrible. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/disappointed.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="disappointed"><br>
that poor woman
 

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I still have pain from mine and DS is almost 3.5... I told him about my fears and he lied to me and said he wasnt doing andything then he cut me. He did the same thing when he broke my water.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Thompson'sMommy</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10117672"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I still have pain from mine and DS is almost 3.5... I told him about my fears and he lied to me and said he wasnt doing andything then he cut me. He did the same thing when he broke my water.</div>
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That is absolutely horrible. I can't belive he would tell you he is doing nothing and then do that stuff to you when you didn't want it. That would be the last time I ever saw him again. I am so sorry that happened to you.
 

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That sounds pretty normal (unfortunately). I can tell you that when I had my first three kids that was pretty standard and I know that this doctor did episiotomies standard on every single woman until he retired!! I think some doctors are worse then others, but yes there are many that won't say anything. I have found that if the mom talks with the doctor about it before hand and lets the doctor know she doesn't want it without consent then they will ask.<br><br>
Of course, I think this is very wrong to do without permission!!!! Not saying it is right - just saying I have seen it more than a few times.
 

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My best friend was having a natural pain-med-free birth and was doing just fine laboring away on her hands and knees. She labored quickly and got "pushy" quickly, so the nurses turned her to lithotomy even though she was quite happy on her hands and knees and told her to not to push because the doctor wasn't there. It took him 1 1/2 hours to get there because "he wanted to finish his last round of golf"! So she had fought against the pushing urge for so long that by the time he got there she couldn't push. So next thing she knows, he grabs the scissors because baby needed to be born NOW, and cuts. It pi$$ed her off, and she gave a huge push as she was sitting up to yell at the doctor, and baby came out in one push. After her son was born, he started to stitch her up, and the nurse stood there wide mouthed and wide eyed. The doc asked "What? how long ago was her epidural?" The nurse said that my best friend hadn't had any pain meds at all. He just said "wow" in a monotone and continued to stitch without giving her a local. In fact, he later turned to her Fiance' and said that he put in an extra stitch for him.<br><br>
I asked her why she didn't file a complaint, and she thought that it was her fault that she couldn't push anymore, that she just wanted her baby, that she was "too small" and that because she was on Missouri state medical aid that she couldn't complain. I told her that that her son's birth could have been so much different, and because of how she was treated, she is beyond super-supportive of me and wanting a homebirth.
 

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Sounds pretty routine. I'm a volunteer hospital doula, so I don't meet my clients until the birth, so I don't have alot of time to educate them on their birth choices beforehand. I'll *never forget* though this one birth where the dr. cut an epi without consent (I didn't even know he was about to cut it- it was never even discussed beforehand) and afterwards, the husband cornered him and said "You didn't ask her if you could cut that!!!" I wanted to jump up and down with my hands in the air and prance around the room like Rocky.
 
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