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It was addressed in post 14. She had an episiotomy.
Speaking Of Women's Choices.....
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I guess in theory.<br>
but I would assume in many cases the scar would look different if it were a clean cut compared to a tear
but I would assume in many cases the scar would look different if it were a clean cut compared to a tear
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I am not saying that there is no way of knowing. But in a lot of these posts it seems like people are saying they found out about the cut when the doctor was sewing it up, which just led me to wonder if the doctor was saying something or not? Just seemed odd to me.<br><br>
And CMM- I know, it says in post one that she had an episiotomy. What I was wondering about was how she actually found out (stitching or telling).
And CMM- I know, it says in post one that she had an episiotomy. What I was wondering about was how she actually found out (stitching or telling).
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Mahtob</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10152811"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I am not saying that there is no way of knowing. But in a lot of these posts it seems like people are saying they found out about the cut when the doctor was sewing it up, which just led me to wonder if the doctor was saying something or not? Just seemed odd to me.<br><br>
And CMM- I know, it says in post one that she had an episiotomy. What I was wondering about was how she actually found out (stitching or telling).</div>
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It's easy to tell what a healed episiotomy looks like, so during your next birth your CNM would be able to tell if you had one before. For example, we've had women tell us they were first time mom's, but during the exam we could see that she had an episiotomy scar and knew she'd given birth before.<br><br>
Many people tear during birth and need a few stitches, so needing to be stitched is not indicative of an episiotomy. The doctor would tell the woman why she is being stitched after the birth: either from a tear or an epis. Some women can't feel when the epis is cut, so they wouldn't know unless they were told (that and the weeks or months of healing).<br><br>
Did that answer your question?
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Mahtob</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10152811"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I am not saying that there is no way of knowing. But in a lot of these posts it seems like people are saying they found out about the cut when the doctor was sewing it up, which just led me to wonder if the doctor was saying something or not? Just seemed odd to me.<br><br>
And CMM- I know, it says in post one that she had an episiotomy. What I was wondering about was how she actually found out (stitching or telling).</div>
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It's easy to tell what a healed episiotomy looks like, so during your next birth your CNM would be able to tell if you had one before. For example, we've had women tell us they were first time mom's, but during the exam we could see that she had an episiotomy scar and knew she'd given birth before.<br><br>
Many people tear during birth and need a few stitches, so needing to be stitched is not indicative of an episiotomy. The doctor would tell the woman why she is being stitched after the birth: either from a tear or an epis. Some women can't feel when the epis is cut, so they wouldn't know unless they were told (that and the weeks or months of healing).<br><br>
Did that answer your question?
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<i>It's easy to tell what a healed episiotomy looks like, so during your next birth your CNM would be able to tell if you had one before. For example, we've had women tell us they were first time mom's, but during the exam we could see that she had an episiotomy scar and knew she'd given birth before.</i><br><br>
With my first birth, I tore a 2nd degree tear, and my OB remarked that it looked like I "gave myself an episiotomy"- I tore straight down. In my second birth, my midwife said she could see my scar before I gave birth, and that afterward I had torn in the same exact place- a 2nd degree tear, straight down.<br><br>
Just by looking at the scar, it would have been impossible to see if it were an episiotomy or tear. I think if it were in a different location or more jagged it would appear to be more of a tear.
With my first birth, I tore a 2nd degree tear, and my OB remarked that it looked like I "gave myself an episiotomy"- I tore straight down. In my second birth, my midwife said she could see my scar before I gave birth, and that afterward I had torn in the same exact place- a 2nd degree tear, straight down.<br><br>
Just by looking at the scar, it would have been impossible to see if it were an episiotomy or tear. I think if it were in a different location or more jagged it would appear to be more of a tear.
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Mahtob-- definitely. I tore and the MW gave me stitches. My tear was much less severe than cutting would have been.
I noticed the ob sewing me up shortly after dd was born. I assumed I had torn. I asked the nurse later and she said the dr. had given me an episiotomy because I was "too tired" to keep pushing. I was so angry. I had only been pushing about half an hour and was doing fine. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/angry.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="angry">
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This thread needs a warning. I literally had a nightmare after reading sevenkids post. I woke up drenched in sweat.<br><br><br>
This didn't happen to me. My CNM and I discussed it and I told her I'd take my chances and she said she didn't "do them very often anyway". I had three births and no tearing.<br><br>
A lot of my friends who didn't do the Bradley classes.... were cut. The healing process they went through complicated their post partum experience. I wish more women knew they had choices.
This didn't happen to me. My CNM and I discussed it and I told her I'd take my chances and she said she didn't "do them very often anyway". I had three births and no tearing.<br><br>
A lot of my friends who didn't do the Bradley classes.... were cut. The healing process they went through complicated their post partum experience. I wish more women knew they had choices.
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The OB who delivered my first DD cut an episiotomy without telling me. I am furious about it to this day - all my medical school classmates are aware of this, LOL.<br><br>
I had spoken with my own OB several weeks before the delivery and she stated that she only does episiotomies when it is necessary (baby in distress or vacuum) so I didn't give it a second thought. I figured all the doctors in the practice would be the same. Her partner delivered DD1. After the birth I heard her ask the nurse for lidocaine and sutures. I asked "Did I tear?" and she said "No, I had to make a little cut." Little cut my butt .... I let it go at the time because I was in awe with my new little daughter but man was I furious when it sunk in after a few days.<br><br>
I still have nerve damage down there from that "little cut". My OB delivered DD2 and I made her promise not to do an episiotomy when I began pushing. I ended up tearing along the scar line but that wasn't nearly as painful a recovery.<br><br>
I am officially the anti-episiotomy spokesperson in my class. When we studied pelvis/perineum in anatomy, part of the class was discussing case studies in groups with a professor present. One case study read exactly like my first birth - OP presentation, pushed for 2 hours without progress, episiotomy performed, baby delivered uneventfully. I made a point that since the baby was not in distress that the woman should have been consulted regarding whether she wanted the episiotomy. The professor responded that "medical decisions are up to the medical team, the patient should not be consulted." Ummm, since when??? I voiced my opinion otherwise, but really did bite my tongue since this person was partially responsible for my grade. I'm making it my mission now to make sure none of my classmates ever do an episiotomy without speaking to the patient first now! Fortunately the professor is not an MD doing this to women (we are taught mostly by phds) but he is influencing future MDs!! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/angry.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="angry">
I had spoken with my own OB several weeks before the delivery and she stated that she only does episiotomies when it is necessary (baby in distress or vacuum) so I didn't give it a second thought. I figured all the doctors in the practice would be the same. Her partner delivered DD1. After the birth I heard her ask the nurse for lidocaine and sutures. I asked "Did I tear?" and she said "No, I had to make a little cut." Little cut my butt .... I let it go at the time because I was in awe with my new little daughter but man was I furious when it sunk in after a few days.<br><br>
I still have nerve damage down there from that "little cut". My OB delivered DD2 and I made her promise not to do an episiotomy when I began pushing. I ended up tearing along the scar line but that wasn't nearly as painful a recovery.<br><br>
I am officially the anti-episiotomy spokesperson in my class. When we studied pelvis/perineum in anatomy, part of the class was discussing case studies in groups with a professor present. One case study read exactly like my first birth - OP presentation, pushed for 2 hours without progress, episiotomy performed, baby delivered uneventfully. I made a point that since the baby was not in distress that the woman should have been consulted regarding whether she wanted the episiotomy. The professor responded that "medical decisions are up to the medical team, the patient should not be consulted." Ummm, since when??? I voiced my opinion otherwise, but really did bite my tongue since this person was partially responsible for my grade. I'm making it my mission now to make sure none of my classmates ever do an episiotomy without speaking to the patient first now! Fortunately the professor is not an MD doing this to women (we are taught mostly by phds) but he is influencing future MDs!! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/angry.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="angry">
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baschabad, you should definately talk to her about it, and make it clear that you do not want to be cut.
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I wouldn't worry. It's a sign of a good midwife to be prepared for any eventuality. I carry them also, but have never used them and won't unless I really think it would make a difference in saving a distressed baby.
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>baschabad</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10169470"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I feel awful for all of you!<br>
Now I'm getting worried myself...<br>
I'm having a hb with a cnm who brings the scissors with her. Should I be worried that she'll be cutting me without permission or reason?!</div>
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The scissors are part of her tools that she brings, but I would definitely cover the fact that there is no (or a single) situation where you would opt for an episiotomy over tearing.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">One OB stands out in my mind every time I hear a discussion about routine episiotomy. This was back in the day when I was still accepting doula clients. My client was terribly traumatized by an episiotomy during her first birth, which extended into a 4th degree and took months to recover from. She begged, pleaded, the whole time she was pushing, for the doctor to NOT cut her, let her tear instead. Anyway, he kept telling her "No, no, I'm not going to cut you, don't worry". As the baby crowned (and she was stretching BEAUTIFULLY, BTW), I saw him pick up the scissors. I caught his eye, and said, "She asked you not to cut her"<br><br>
And he looked at me, SMIRKED, actually smirked, and with this glint in his eye, gleefully gave her the biggest, nastiest episiotomy I've ever seen. I'd go so far as to describe it as a vaginal ceserean. Anyway, the baby literally fell out of the gaping hole he made, she screamed and thrashed and her eyes rolled and her mouth foamed like she was being raped (which she brutally was). He told the nurse to give her a shot of Demerol, which she had stated that she had awful reactions too previously when they offered it to her for pain relief. Wouldn't you know it, they had the Dem already drawn up, the nurse jabbed her in the thigh while she screamed and begged them not to give her, and when she quieted down (she stopped thrashing and just moaned and cried, saying, please, please, please..) he started to stitch her up.</td>
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Subtract the doula and the smirking, add in a manual placenta removal and a baby who was harmed by aforementioned asshole OB and you have my first birth. They had the Dem already drawn up for me too (though I had a natural birth, they gave it to me when I started shrieking from the manual removal).<br><br>
I feel sick, 11 years later, even thinking about my son's birth.<br><br>
I agree with DoctorJen, too. If this happened to you, write a letter. The OB who attended my first birth is no longer practicing. I don't know if it's because of my letter--no one ever contacted me--but I like to hope that I helped getting him away from perineums.
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>baschabad</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10169470"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I feel awful for all of you!<br>
Now I'm getting worried myself...<br>
I'm having a hb with a cnm who brings the scissors with her. Should I be worried that she'll be cutting me without permission or reason?!</div>
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The scissors are part of her tools that she brings, but I would definitely cover the fact that there is no (or a single) situation where you would opt for an episiotomy over tearing.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">One OB stands out in my mind every time I hear a discussion about routine episiotomy. This was back in the day when I was still accepting doula clients. My client was terribly traumatized by an episiotomy during her first birth, which extended into a 4th degree and took months to recover from. She begged, pleaded, the whole time she was pushing, for the doctor to NOT cut her, let her tear instead. Anyway, he kept telling her "No, no, I'm not going to cut you, don't worry". As the baby crowned (and she was stretching BEAUTIFULLY, BTW), I saw him pick up the scissors. I caught his eye, and said, "She asked you not to cut her"<br><br>
And he looked at me, SMIRKED, actually smirked, and with this glint in his eye, gleefully gave her the biggest, nastiest episiotomy I've ever seen. I'd go so far as to describe it as a vaginal ceserean. Anyway, the baby literally fell out of the gaping hole he made, she screamed and thrashed and her eyes rolled and her mouth foamed like she was being raped (which she brutally was). He told the nurse to give her a shot of Demerol, which she had stated that she had awful reactions too previously when they offered it to her for pain relief. Wouldn't you know it, they had the Dem already drawn up, the nurse jabbed her in the thigh while she screamed and begged them not to give her, and when she quieted down (she stopped thrashing and just moaned and cried, saying, please, please, please..) he started to stitch her up.</td>
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Subtract the doula and the smirking, add in a manual placenta removal and a baby who was harmed by aforementioned asshole OB and you have my first birth. They had the Dem already drawn up for me too (though I had a natural birth, they gave it to me when I started shrieking from the manual removal).<br><br>
I feel sick, 11 years later, even thinking about my son's birth.<br><br>
I agree with DoctorJen, too. If this happened to you, write a letter. The OB who attended my first birth is no longer practicing. I don't know if it's because of my letter--no one ever contacted me--but I like to hope that I helped getting him away from perineums.
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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/hug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hug"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/hug2.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Hug2"><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/grouphug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="grouphug"> I just get flabbergasted everytime I hear these stories. as a doula I've witnessed so many atrocities, but they never cease to shock me <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/disappointed.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="disappointed">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>majikfaerie</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10134876"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I'd love to cut an episiotomy on that guy. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/splat.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="splat"></div>
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Well, on a much lighter note, I'm kinda having fun imagining the logistics of this...<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/FIREdevil.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="devil">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>majikfaerie</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10134876"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I'd love to cut an episiotomy on that guy. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/splat.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="splat"></div>
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Well, on a much lighter note, I'm kinda having fun imagining the logistics of this...<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/FIREdevil.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="devil">
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<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Turquesa</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10186879"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Well, on a much lighter note, I'm kinda having fun imagining the logistics of this...<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/FIREdevil.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="devil"></div>
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<br>
Hehehehehe<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Turquesa</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10186879"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Well, on a much lighter note, I'm kinda having fun imagining the logistics of this...<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/FIREdevil.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="devil"></div>
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<br>
Hehehehehe<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol">
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Yep, I was cut without my consent or knowledge with DS. I should have gone to the birthing center like I wanted, but problems with our insurance led to me consenting to a hospital birth...should have just paid out of pocket. My son is 10 months old, and I still have pain from the episiotomy sometimes. When I saw the pictures of the birth, it was horrible...there's just this gaping hole and it's so bloody and awful. I would have never consented to that if I had known (it was in my birth plan that I did not want an episiotomy under any circumstances, and I had stated it when I started pushing). There was no reason for cutting me - I had a very easy labor and I only pushed 3 times and DS was born. While he was stitching me up, my husband angrily asked the OB why he had cut me, and he said "It's just my standard procedure for a first birth. I don't like to see tears, so I go ahead and do an episiotomy."<br><br>
I wrote several letters to the hospital and never received a satisfactory response. My next birth will definitely be at home or at a birthing center. Even though my son's birth went very well for a hospital birth, I really regret that I let myself be put in the position to be cut.
I wrote several letters to the hospital and never received a satisfactory response. My next birth will definitely be at home or at a birthing center. Even though my son's birth went very well for a hospital birth, I really regret that I let myself be put in the position to be cut.
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Aww, I am so sorry you had to go through that. That is horrible. What is it with these fricking doctors and their scissor happy hands!!!! It makes me SOOOOOO ANGRY!
i hope its okay if i chime in here, but my mom was given what she calls "the episiotomy from hell" with me (in 1984, in a military hospital)... she put her head back because she was tired, and the doctor grabbed the scalpel, my biological father grabbed her by the shoulders, and the doctor cut her, and he says i FLEW out, and they almost dropped me. He described it as having to JUGGLE me, because i fell out so quickly. She hadnt had any pain meds because they wouldnt give them to her... it took her 13 years to entertain the notion of having another child, because of how traumatizing it was. they thought she passed out, she thinks, and that she couldnt push anymore so they made me come out!<br><br>
on another hand, my MIL thinks epis are the greatest thing ever! I dont understand her! She said when she was at her neice's birth, she didnt understand why they used oil to help keep her from tearing.. they should have "jsut given her an episiotomy, it only takes like a week to heal from it" um, sorry but i'd rather have NO tear or cut, perioid! lol
on another hand, my MIL thinks epis are the greatest thing ever! I dont understand her! She said when she was at her neice's birth, she didnt understand why they used oil to help keep her from tearing.. they should have "jsut given her an episiotomy, it only takes like a week to heal from it" um, sorry but i'd rather have NO tear or cut, perioid! lol
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I don't understand this "flying right out" because of episiotomy. Babies usually slide right out after their shoulders clear the pubic bone, and episiotomy has nothing to do with that. Of course there are exceptions, but in my experience that's how it usually goes.
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