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My ds#2 is 27 1/2 months and is showing signs of very delayed speech. I attribute it to a few different things, but the important thing right now it to move forward (can't change the past). He was delayed to begin with when it comes to talking and was considered a "late talked". Physically, he was very advanced and was walking at 9 months. Our doctor had 2 years as the "cut off" before he was going to refer us to a speech pathologist, but he was starting to improve for a while around his second birthday and would use two-syllable "words" for two-syllable real words. His speech closely mirrored in many ways real words as well. (For instance, Grandpa was Boppa; Grandma was Mama.) He also used signs. But over the last month or two, he has begun to regress, quite a bit if you ask me. He "stutters" at the "beginning" of his sentences, usually something like "uh uh uh uh uh uh", almost like he's waiting for his vocal cords to catch up with his brain. And, he's back to only one-syllable utterances, some of which are basically incomprehensible. I understand him the best because I'm home with him all the time. But dh is frustrated because he can barely understand anything. And I know ds#2 is very frustrated because he can't make himself understood. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"> He has no other signs of any other regressions (nothing that would raise red flags, for instance, of ASD), so I'm 99% sure it's a speech thing. Also, his hearing, from my perspective is perfectly fine. And what's interesting is he can make just about every letter sound independently, but cannot put them together to repeat what he is hearing.<br><br>
Even though he's not quite 2 1/2, I'm starting to worry and am thinking it might be time to ask our doctor for a referral to a speech pathologist. My biggest reason for wanting to jump early is because I had a major speech impedement as a child, but didn't begin any therapy for it until Kindergarten. By that time I was very ingrained in my own way of saying things, and went through 8 years of therapy before I was "graduated". My speech issues all arose from hearing issues.<br><br>
After all that, my question is this: at what age do you begin to suspect something going on beyond your scope and get intervention or at least evaluation? We are hs'ing, and I'm a little apprehensive because it seems that the speech programs are basically preschool a couple days a week. I do not want him tracked into something, but I also don't want to deny him help if that's what he needs. At what age to you see this as something he's not going to just "grow out of" and have someone look at it?
 

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It can't hurt to have him evaluated. And you don't have to put him in a preschool to get speech therapy. You can bring him in at an arrainged time to receive ST. I know that is how it works in the program my dd's in.<br><br>
As for what age do they grow out of things - it really depends on the problem. Some things, they do grow out of. Like mispronouncing words can be outgrown by the age of 4. Mispronouncing L's and R's - about age 8. But other things need help when they're first discovered.
 

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Hey there,<br><br>
I saw your post over at the toddler board too so my answer is in relation to both threads. Over there someone replied to you about apraxia. My daughter has apaxia as well and I would agree that I thought of that when reading about your son although it sounds different than our experience has been so it doesn't strike me as much as other posters I have read. I wanted to say in relation to that though that if you get a speech therapy eval and they say they don't think it's apraxia, but can't figure it out to just be a little suspicious. My experience, and the experience of many other parents I have read about, is that many speech therapists miss the diagnosis of apraxia, especially in children under age 3. And even if they diagnose it they don't always realize the therapy that is needed for it.<br><br>
I think it's definitely a great idea to get an eval done now. Early intervention is one of the best things you can do for a child with a delay of some sort. Younger brains are still retain so much plasticity and ability to create new brain pathways so that early therapy can really do wonders for them. I think it you are concerned about it then it definitely merits looking into. Even if the speech therapist tells you they think your son is fine then you can have that worry off your shoulders, but, to me, it really does sound like your son could benefit from some speech therapy.<br><br>
Oh I just re-read your post and wanted to add that we are planning to homeschool as well. You can get speech therapy through the preschool program if you homeschool (if you qualify) and it would probably be a couple of hours of play-therapy at the pre-school. We have gone to a private speech therapist now because we could not get a therapist through the birth to three program who knew how to treat apraxia, especially in a young child.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>chann96</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">My experience, and the experience of many other parents I have read about, is that many speech therapists miss the diagnosis of apraxia, especially in children under age 3. And even if they diagnose it they don't always realize the therapy that is needed for it.</div>
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That sounds like what I was reading on the Apraxia Kids website in relation to toddlers and very young children. I think I am going to call the doctor and see who he can refer us to in terms of speech pathology and therapy. When I read this:<br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Apraxia-Kids.org</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">The characteristics which Davis and Velleman feel are most descriptive of CAS in very young children include:
<ul><li><span style="font-family:Verdana, Helvetica;"><span style="font-size:small;"><i>Restrictions and gaps in sound repertoire (both consonant and vowel), including the possibility that the child may have acquired some later developing sounds while be missing earlier developing sounds.</i></span></span></li>
<li><span style="font-family:Verdana, Helvetica;"><span style="font-size:small;"><i>These children may demonstrate very limited use of syllables, possible use of an extended single sound or few vocalizations at all. The children may have difficulty combining the sounds that they do have.</i></span></span></li>
<li><span style="font-family:Verdana, Helvetica;"><span style="font-size:small;"><i>Limited variation of vowels and the use of a centralized vowel in a multipurpose way.</i></span></span></li>
<li><span style="font-family:Verdana, Helvetica;"><span style="font-size:small;"><i>Vocalizations may have speech-like melody but syllables or discernable words may not be present.</i></span></span></li>
<li><span style="font-family:Verdana, Helvetica;"><span style="font-size:small;"><i>Words may seem to disappear from use more than would be expected for a typically developing child of the same age.</i></span></span></li>
<li><i><span style="font-family:Verdana, Helvetica;"><span style="font-size:small;">Predictable utterances may be easier than novel utterances</span></span></i></li>
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it sounded just like my ds. It's sad to read but also gives some hope that maybe there is something going on with him that we can get help for, you know?<br><br>
So, when we do meet with someone, should we bring up at that time our suspicions of apraxia? Should we document some things now around the house (for instance video tape him in "normal" conversation). Chances are he'll be pretty clammy when we go see someone, at least for a while ... he's shy at first and won't say much of anything to other people he doesn't know.<br><br>
Also, for those familiar with apraxia and/or speech pathologies in general, do they fall somewhere on the ASD? Are there other things we need to look for? Do they seem to regress more with their speech or is it something that they just don't progress normally in speech like other children? Our first son was a very early (and proficient) talker - he was using sentences by a year - so we aren't very well versed in terms of "normal" speech development to begin with.<br><br>
Also, because he's having such issues communicating, I was going to again start pushing signing with him - he picked it up quickly when he was little and will still sign some things, though he really wants to try to speak and will make utterances instead of signing. Is there any reason why I shouldn't get him signing more to increase his communication? My gut says to enable him to communicate whether that's by verbal communication or gesturing/signing. But I'm not sure how that would be looked upon by a speech pathologist/therapist. Do people still see signing as a hinderance? Sorry for what probably seem to be simple and/or ignorant questions. We thought we were doing so well with both boys and had missed the "bullet" so to speak with so many developmental/neuro issues. But when ds#2 began regressing with his speech and is now where he is, a major red flag went up that I wasn't prepared for ...<br><br>
And, for those with dc with speech delays and issues, have you thought about it's connection with vaxes or environmental factors? My dh and I have stopped vaxing and will no longer vax either boy nor the new baby. But, in my heart I believe the damage has been done with ds#2 (combined with medications I was told were perfectly safe during pregnancy and the blasted RhoGam shot I was told I needed at 28 weeks pregnant). Dh is talking about having him tested for possible heavy metal exposure, and then looking into possibly detoxing him. But because speech seems to be his only issue, I'm not sure if that's even something that needs to be done or would benefit ... suddenly I feel like I don't know what to do with my own son even though I'd feel pretty confident telling another parent how to help their child. And I know I might very well be jumping the gun here too ... he might begin showing improvement/progress on his own. It's so hard to know ... and I guess that's why it's beneficial to get an eval. Thanks for listening to me ... my brain is suddenly going in a million different places.
 

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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/hug2.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Hug2"><br><br>
First, take a deep breath.<br><br>
My ds#2, the one with apraxia has never been vax'ed, yet he still has apraxia. He was also born at home. However, he has other medical issues, and so of course one can go on and on about this medicine or that or this surgery or that....it could have been anything, yk? What is not useful is beating yourself up. You can only do the best you can do at any given moment in time.<br><br>
We use sign and speech with ds2. (I call him Little Bear.) Little Bear LOVES signing. We got the signing time (<a href="http://www.signingtime.com" target="_blank">www.signingtime.com</a>) DVDs, and they have taught us some ASL as well as ds. He LOVES signing time.<br><br>
We also still of course speak to him. And we praise him for any sounds he makes, especially to try to communicate with us.<br><br>
He is 22 months and still has only 3ish words that he uses consistently. He has other sounds that he uses somewhat consistently. His words are: yeah, no, and eye.<br><br>
If you have health insurance, many insurances pay for therapies. But you have the co-pay and you have the limit of number of sessions per year. But that way you can use private therapy and work with your therapist on a plan to maximize your number of sessions.<br><br>
Also, the Birth to 3, ECI, EC program near you will still come to your house until he is 36 months....as long as it doesn't take them that long to do an evaluation. Depends where you live and even what part of town you live in in some areas as to who you get and how good they are.<br><br>
I agree it sounds much like apraxia, so you will want to look for an SLP who knows how to work with apraxia. You should try to find someone who works with apraxia. Not all speech paths do. According to our speech path, many other speech paths and doctors don't even believe in appraxia. Soo....ask around. Ask in FYT. Ask in your local LLL. Ask in API. Whoever you know, ask.<br><br>
And again, <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/hug2.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Hug2">. It it so much better knowing, but it hurts too. We also have an older son who was talking when he was 6 months old and talking in sentences by a year-eighteen months. So it's been hard not being able to communicate verbally.<br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/hug2.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Hug2"><br><br>
mv
 

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My son is 26 months and was dxed with apraxia at 21 months 29 days. He does exactly the uh uh uh uh uh thing you describe. He gets speech therapy once a week through our insurance (and I had to fight tooth and nail to get that and it won't last all year) and twice a week, later to go up to 3, from early intervention as center based therapy. If you get right on getting your ds evaluated now, then you can get him into EI and then go through transition to the 3 to 5 preschool program more easily than trying to get him into preschool program directly.<br><br>
I HIGHLY recommend the listserv for the apraxia kids website. Very friendly and well informed especially about special education law.<br><br>
Some children with apraxia are autistic but many are not. No necessary connection.<br><br>
Good luck and let us know how it goes.<br><br>
Fiona
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>MyLittleWonders</strong></div>
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So, when we do meet with someone, should we bring up at that time our suspicions of apraxia? Should we document some things now around the house (for instance video tape him in "normal" conversation). Chances are he'll be pretty clammy when we go see someone, at least for a while ... he's shy at first and won't say much of anything to other people he doesn't know.</div>
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<span>I definitely brought up my suspicions of apraxia when I met our new speech therapist. Of course I had researched on the internet and picked this practice specifically because they specialized in apraxia. I think it's a good idea to bring it up though. I told them that I wasn't looking for them to just agree with me about it, but that's what it looked like to me and I wanted to really look at that idea. I don't think you need to video tape anything as they probably wouldn't have the time to watch it during the evaluation, but it would probably be helpful to make some notes for yourself about what you hear him say or not say. My daughter said very very little at her eval and that actually told the therapist a lot, but much of the eval was asking us questions about what she says or doesn't say.</span><br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>MyLittleWonders</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Also, for those familiar with apraxia and/or speech pathologies in general, do they fall somewhere on the ASD? Are there other things we need to look for? Do they seem to regress more with their speech or is it something that they just don't progress normally in speech like other children? Our first son was a very early (and proficient) talker - he was using sentences by a year - so we aren't very well versed in terms of "normal" speech development to begin with.</div>
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<span>When you read about apraxia you'll probably come across a lot of information about ASD. It seems to me that lots of kids on the ASD have some amount of apraxia, but having apraxia does not indicate that a child is on the ASD. I have rather obsessively<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"> examined the characteristics for Aspergers, autism etc and my daughter does not even come close to the characteristics. Apraxia does seem to show regression in speech sometimes and just a different progression of speech than most children. For example, one of my daughter's 3 words is "ca" for "cat," but the "c" sound is actually usually a late developing sound for kids and she doesn't have those early sounds.<br></span><br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>MyLittleWonders</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Also, because he's having such issues communicating, I was going to again start pushing signing with him - he picked it up quickly when he was little and will still sign some things, though he really wants to try to speak and will make utterances instead of signing. Is there any reason why I shouldn't get him signing more to increase his communication? My gut says to enable him to communicate whether that's by verbal communication or gesturing/signing. But I'm not sure how that would be looked upon by a speech pathologist/therapist. Do people still see signing as a hinderance? Sorry for what probably seem to be simple and/or ignorant questions. We thought we were doing so well with both boys and had missed the "bullet" so to speak with so many developmental/neuro issues. But when ds#2 began regressing with his speech and is now where he is, a major red flag went up that I wasn't prepared for ...</div>
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<span>Signing is an excellent idea. One of the ideas with apraxia is that trying to "make" the child talks places pressure on them and actually makes it harder for them to talk. Using signs or picture books gives the child a way to communicate and helps to take that pressure off of them. All of the new research for speech indicates that signing is definitely more helpful than hurtful. Our speech therapist has mentioned to me that she's not encouraging us to use picture books with her because she (the therapist) wants Charlotte to be primarily a verbal communicator, but the therapist does use signs with her a lot. It actually can be helpful too because it can help the child to create a neural pathway to remember how to say a word. For example, they learn that when they use their hand to sign "dog" they also need to move their mouth such and such a way. The therapy for apraxia is all about creating neural pathways so it's another way to connect things for the child.<br><br>
I think there are no bad questions. I know I have had tons that I have asked our speech therapist and online. That's just how we learn how to help our kids. I just learned today from our occupational therapist that it's probable that part of my daughter's fine motor skills delays (which are relatively minor) are apraxia related. Learn something knew all the time I guess.<br></span><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>MyLittleWonders</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">And, for those with dc with speech delays and issues, have you thought about it's connection with vaxes or environmental factors? My dh and I have stopped vaxing and will no longer vax either boy nor the new baby. But, in my heart I believe the damage has been done with ds#2 (combined with medications I was told were perfectly safe during pregnancy and the blasted RhoGam shot I was told I needed at 28 weeks pregnant). Dh is talking about having him tested for possible heavy metal exposure, and then looking into possibly detoxing him. But because speech seems to be his only issue, I'm not sure if that's even something that needs to be done or would benefit ... suddenly I feel like I don't know what to do with my own son even though I'd feel pretty confident telling another parent how to help their child. And I know I might very well be jumping the gun here too ... he might begin showing improvement/progress on his own. It's so hard to know ... and I guess that's why it's beneficial to get an eval. Thanks for listening to me ... my brain is suddenly going in a million different places.</div>
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<span>I hear you on the brain going in a million places. BTDT on a weekly basis it seems <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"> I have thought about vax and environmental exposures, but I don't really think that's the problem. In my discussion with the OT today she said that when kids are diagnosed with apraxia it's usually about speech, but they are often able to look back and see signs of it from very early on, even in how a child rolled over. My daughter has had minimal vax and of course has had other neurological issues and surgeries, but I just don't think we have any idea of what causes apraxia. If you are concerned about metal toxicity then, as if everything else, it can't really hurt (other than the needle sticks I guess) to get him tested to ease your concerns.<br><br>
Feel free to ask any other questions you have. I read on the other thread at the toddler forum where you commented about needing to be the mama advocate and I think that's the right idea. I really had to educate myself and work to find someone who can help my daughter. It's frustrating, but finding that right person was just an amazing moment.</span>
 
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