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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
ok, I know he really doesnt have to tell me where he takes my babes on visits...but this last weekend he took them out of our town 45 min...and in our decree it states he cant take them out of our town...he took them to a camp ground...with his family who are all crazy, and very mainstream..and my 4 year old told me ....she was swimming in a lake without floaties..and no other adult in the lake...just her 2 cousins both 5.....and he lied to me regardless....he had it planned to take them there, his family was camping....and told me he needed a change of clothes in case they want to jump on the trampoline..at his parents house, where he the dad lives. I said why didnt you tell me you were taking them there he said..I dont have to tell you where I am taking my kids...then he said do you tell me everytime you take them....ok he left us..with no warning and no support 7 months ago..he has been a real ass and now is telling me I have no right to know where my kids are...I am furious.....I have tried to be kind but I feel like he is walking all over me........anyone have any suggestions????
 

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What kind of visitation agreement do you have? Legally binding one?<br><br>
If not, I'd just not give him the kids again until we did have one.<br><br>
If so, I'd see what it says. If you have sole physical custody, I'd throw it in his face and say, "I have sole physical custody. That means that their bodies belong to me and I *do* have the right to know where they are at all times." B/c it's true. If he's endangering the kids while they're with him, take him back to court. You can't let a 4yo go out in a body of water with no adult supervision! That's wrong.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Lucy VanPelt</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">If you have sole physical custody, I'd throw it in his face and say, "I have sole physical custody. That means that <b>their bodies belong to me</b> and I *do* have the right to know where they are at all times." B/c it's true.</div>
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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/yikes2.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="yikes">: Might want to find a better way to word that! I understand what you mean, but you make it sound like the kids are just a *thing* or a possession. Obviously not true. The bodies do not belong to you- they belong to the kids!<br><br>
peacefulmom- without knowing what your custody arrangment is I can't really give much advice. But you do say he isn't supposed to take them out of your town. I suppose if you really felt strongly about it you could take him to court over that, but I doubt it would do anything or be worth it (since you can't really prove it).
 

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you are going to drive yourself crazy. and the more you try to control his visits the less he is going to tell you. what would you have done if you knew they were going camping with his crazy family? would you have made him misreable? could/would you have denyed him the visitation? does it matter if he takes them camping? if he felt like you were going make a big deal about it why would he tell you? why not just avoid the conflict? could town not be just as dangerous anyway? is it really that big of a deal that you didn't know they were camping? is it really such a big deal if he wantsto take them camping? do you really think you will be able to keep them away from his family or friends or anyone else in his life? ok the swimming thing would freak me out and you have a right to be unhappy about that. but by making a big deal out of everything else distracts from a very valid point. pick your battles. if you want him to tell you, he has to be able to feel like he can. and he is right. you don't tell him everything you do with the kids, you don't ask his permission on what you are doing with his kids. would it help him feel better if you would paty him the curtousy of giving him the heads up if you guys are going away for the weekend? I don't know, it might not help but if you give him that he might be more wiling to give it to you. just a thought. My mom always made it so hard for my dad. what we were doing wasn't good enough, she didn't want us around his family because they were crazy , the transportation wasn't good enough and it wasn't about what we were doing or where we were going but that she wasn't in control of it. and we knew that. and it made me mad and it kept us from having a relationship with my dad. regardles sof what a jerk he was I wanted to learn it for myself.
 

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wow, you're sure getting an interesting mix of reactions here!<br><br>
First, lots of sympathy, that must be frustrating and scary and make you feel powerless even though you're a good mama bear who wants to protect her kids. It's crazy that the courts and legal system try to make us into something we aren't, or deny who we are, and mom's are protective for a REASON because kids NEED protection until they are truly old enough to handle things on their own. So what you're feeling is understandable.<br><br>
Second, regarding whether he can/should/will do this again. If you have a document that says he CAN'T take them out of the town, then I would just remind him of it. You aren't trying to be nosy about what he does, just insisting he follow the courts decree...like you do, like you have to... I'd try to put it in those more neutral terms rather than his "control me" or "nosy" terms...<br><br>
Good luck, and hugs, it's so scary and hopefully in time you and your ex will be able to get along better, sometimes time really helps, 2.5 years down the road and my ex and I (who had a very, very bitter divorce and horrilble first 1.5 years separated) can actually communicate well and are both respectful...so hopefully your future will be much better than the present...<br><br>
Jennifer
 

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I would try educating him. Most men aren't aware how easily a child can drown... how silently... etc. There's a pool thread here somewhere... if you can find it, you can find out some info. Then I'd go to him and say, "Y'know... I know you love DD as much as I do. She mentioned that she was swimming in the lake with her two cousins... no adults and no floaties. Now, I don't know if that's how it really happened, but I just wanted to share this with you. We'd both be devestated if anything was to happen to DD... so please, if you do take her swimming again, please be in the water with her. Please make sure she has her floaties on. OK?"<br><br>
As for taking her out of town, I'd just say... "of course, I want our kids to spend time with your family and had you told me, I wouldn't have cared... but what I might have been able to do is make sure she had her floaties with her, some sun screen, etc." (Even though it's driving you absolutely crazy that he took her out of town!)
 

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there she said that a lot better than I did. I hope I didn't come off as harsh earlier. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>umsami</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">There's a pool thread here somewhere... if you can find it, you can find out some info.</div>
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<a href="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=468167" target="_blank">Here</a> ya go.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>StephandOwen</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I understand what you mean, but you make it sound like the kids are just a *thing* or a possession. Obviously not true. The bodies do not belong to you- they belong to the kids!</div>
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Understood. However, we're talking to an irrational person. You don't meet irrationality with rationality and expect something positive. He's crazy, get crazy with him. You gotta meet ppl on their level or there can be no effective communication.<br><br>
I think I should add that I reread the OP. There is a decree. He's in violation of the decree and gets attitude about that violation when called on it by the woman. He's disrespectful and lacks integrity. We're going to try to reason with him? Only if you want more drama. IMO, when dealing with men like this you have to be direct and leave no room for him to feel you're compassionate or trying to educate him. He won't allow you to educate him if he's acting like that guy is.
 

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A young child in the water, without an adult in the water with her, is certainly a "battle" that I would pick. Jeez, that is totally terrifying.<br><br>
What worries me about this scenario is that it really displays a complete lack of common sense (on dad's part). What can you do to prove that? I mean, does some terrible sort of injury need to happen for that to be proved? How incredibly frustrating and scary.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Lucy VanPelt</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Understood. However, we're talking to an irrational person. You don't meet irrationality with rationality and expect something positive. He's crazy, get crazy with him. You gotta meet ppl on their level or there can be no effective communication.<br><br>
I think I should add that I reread the OP. There is a decree. He's in violation of the decree and gets attitude about that violation when called on it by the woman. He's disrespectful and lacks integrity. We're going to try to reason with him? Only if you want more drama. IMO, when dealing with men like this you have to be direct and leave no room for him to feel you're compassionate or trying to educate him. He won't allow you to educate him if he's acting like that guy is.</div>
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I guess we just have different circumstances here. If I said that to my ex (even if I had a perfectly good reason to) he would be one to twist my words and throw it back in my face and accuse me of using ds as a pawn. Because that's his nature I have to be very careful with what I say at any time.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>StephandOwen</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I guess we just have different circumstances here. If I said that to my ex (even if I had a perfectly good reason to) he would be one to twist my words and throw it back in my face and accuse me of using ds as a pawn. Because that's his nature I have to be very careful with what I say at any time.</div>
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Yeah, my kid's dad isn't that clever. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol">
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>peacefulmom</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">in our decree it states he cant take them out of our town</div>
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I have a similar situation with my ex: if he violates it he looses visitation -- he has an abusive history. I don't know what your legal situation is, but I, personally, would begin with that, with my lawyer.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>peacefulmom</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">and my 4 year old told me ....she was swimming in a lake without floaties..and no other adult in the lake...</div>
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And then I would go on to this: it is, to me, completely unacceptable and I would call my ex on it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
thanks mammas...I dont want my kids not to know their dad ...yes they will find out who and what he reall is in time...I am the one that is trying to teach him how to be a good father...ie telling him to pay attention to all the kds...and not to belitttle our DD etc...but when we were married I was the protector and he well he is a idiot..he does not think of possible danger issues, he assumes everything will be fine...so I worry all the time and yes if he were to tell me ..I would have had the kids prepared..floaties,sunscreen, etc.......<br>
thank your for your insights..
 

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We are the moms. They are the dads. They have every right to do what they want with their kids while visiting with them. I would NOT ACCEPT any of them questioning what I do with my kids during the week!!<br><br>
We ALL do it differently. Our kids need to see that mom and dad are different. I'm not going to go into a lot of detail about your particular situation, BUT, in GENERAL, I do not ask where my kids go, what they do, or who they see during their visits with their dads. It's not "my" business. It is my kids' business and their dads' business. If they want to share, that's great!! But I do not probe them with questions.<br><br>
Sometimes when I do find out what they do, it drives me absolutely insane! I have learn to let it go. They will experience a totally different lifestyle with their dads. I guess that's what I was chosing when I became a single mom! (Or chose to have kids with these men!)
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
i guess I am not understanding why some are kinda flammin me here???I was not saying I needed to know where they are at all times in fact I stated this...but my DD voluntarily told me she was worried because he left her in the lake and she knows the rules are always wear floaties she just learned to swim 2 weeks ago....and she said she was concerned because she was told by her dad to go to the play areas at the camp with her 2 cousins both 5 without a adult...she knows that this is not what we have discussed as safe...so I was attempting to ask how to handle when he paces them in danger or in a position where my children feel afraid????what I do and if you all have gone through this...So I guess I am surprised that some of you are so quick to say BUTT OUT..I am learning to let go of some control here but when it is a question of safety I will not waiver here>>>>><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/duck.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Duck">:<br>
but regardless thanks for the positive advice
 

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peaceful, don't worry about it. Some ppl seem to think that everyone on the planet is sane. Which is contrary to the evidence.<br><br>
You do what you gotta do. If ppl can't understand that not all of us have reasonable exes to deal with, that's <i>their</i> problem.<br><br>
What are ppl gonna say to you if your ex does something more serious, the law gets involved, then a judge wants to hold you accountable b/c you knew your ex was violating orders, but didn't do anything about it? Please. Not all of us have the best circumstances for our kids. He's an ex for a reason. Do what you feel is best.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Heylove</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">We ALL do it differently. Our kids need to see that mom and dad are different. I'm not going to go into a lot of detail about your particular situation, BUT, in GENERAL, I do not ask where my kids go, what they do, or who they see during their visits with their dads. It's not "my" business. It is my kids' business and their dads' business. If they want to share, that's great!! But I do not probe them with questions.</div>
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No offense meant, HeyLove, but my child's safety is "my" business.<br>
Yes, moms and dads are different. But regardless of how "different" our parenting styles may be, my child's wellbeing is ALWAYS my concern, my business. If I need to respectfully ask a question to find out if my child is ok, then I <b>will</b> ask it. If X wants to ask me a question to see if our child is ok, he is more than welcome to do so respectfully.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>peacefulmom</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I am learning to let go of some control here but when it is a question of safety I will not waiver here</div>
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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/yeahthat.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="yeah that">: Hugs mama! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/hug2.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Hug2">
 
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