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My 6 yr old daughter has Juvenille Rheumatoid arthritis and uveitis. This is a longish story/vent/plea for advise.<br><br>
Three months ago, we were fired from her first opthomologist when we went with her current opthomologist/rheumatologist because the current ones would put her on naproxen instead of methotrexate. The first opthomologist strongly disagreed with not going on methotrexate so he fired us, dispite second and third opinions that naproxen would be the next step.<br><br>
Enter a double ear infection two weeks ago noted during Rheumatologists exam. Rheumy gave me abx. We treated it with ear candles, and homeopathics and the ear stuff cleared.<br><br>
My daughter then gets horrible stomach pain. I call rheumy. They are concerned that stomach pain is from abx. I say, I didn't give her the abx. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/bag.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Bag">: They say to take pepto bismol either way if the stomach pain was from the abx or naproxen. I kick myself for even mentioning that I didn't give her the abx AFTER they say that. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/banghead.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="banghead"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/hammer.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hammer"> I read the ingredients of pepto bismol and think NOT <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/yikes2.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="yikes">: , I will try something else first. The compounding pharmacy was out of bismuth and would have to order it in to make a pepto like substance w/o the crap. I come to mdc healing the gut tribe for advise, put her on slippery elm, fennel, etc. I take her to the Natuopath yesterday. She's now on Marshmallow root, slippery elm, l- glutamine, licorice root, and a mystery homeopathic remedy.<br><br>
Stomach pain is still here, but I haven't even given her but two doses of the herbs yet. She's on a mostly goat milk diet, because it hurts to eat food, and I am having trouble getting her to take these herbs because her pain, which is located more in the small intestine area in a circle around her navel.<br>
She's not constipated, her poop is beautiful. You could bronze today's poop as an example of what poop should look like.<br><br>
I plan to continue with the herbs, but when I talk to the rheumy, should I inform her that she is still having stomach pain and let her know that I didn't give her the pepto???? That would make me snub her recommendations TWICE in a short time period. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/demon.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="demon"> I called yesterday to let them know that the pain continued to ask about getting injectable naproxen instead of oral.<br><br>
If I say the truth..that I won't give salycilites, aluminum and food coloring to my child until after herbs fail and if the herbs fail I will get a bismuth preparation made without all the crap in it at a compounding pharmacy before buying pepto...I wouldn't want them to fire us too for not cooperating or think that I am a stark raving mad lunatic, or "one of THOSE parents". In my experience if they label you, you don't get the best diagnosis and treatment for your child. My daughter went undiagnosed for her arthritis for 14 months because the doctor was more interested in giving me a speech for not vaccinating than diagnosing her foot pain. So..like lying sounds real good...just lie...or don't mention not giving the pepto.<br><br>
On the other hand I feel like it is important to let the doctor know what is going on so that she can help my daughter, without making them feel like I am being disrespectful of their ways. There are four potential reasons for the stomach pain after discussing this with the Naturopath. Her immune system could be attacking her stomach, or it could be the naproxen, or it could be the new foods we introduced last month, or it could be the proteases that we just discontinued. But the rhuematologist isn't going to understand the last two reasons. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/drool.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="drool"><br><br>
I will take away all of the newly added foods, and the proteases, but to see a benefit might take time and healing if that was the cause. I think the rheumy will be offended if she finds out our child still has stomach pain and we didn't give the pepto.<br><br>
Is it just that it is more complicated to deal with doctors when your child has a serious illness and you are using herbal remedies instead of things they recommend? If this is going to continue as the years go by, I guess I need to find solutions for how to handle these situations. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/FIREdevil.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="devil"> lie or <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/angel.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="angel"> truth or <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/fingersx.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="fingersx">: hope they don't ask? <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/nut.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="nut"><br><br>
Shelly
 

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I really don't know! I would wonder right away if it's the naproxen. How long has she been on it? Is the pain in her upper abdomen? That's worth getting checked otu right away, I'd think. I don't know if she's in an active flare or not, but my son always has really bad stomach pain when he has one. They can't put her on something else, like Zantac? That doesn't contain aluminum and would be better at controlling stomach issues caused by an immune system reaction anyway. I'd just call the rhuem and let her know that you tried the pepto <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/innocent.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="shy"> and it didn't work so you want to try something like an acid reducer instead.<br><br><br><br>
Ok, I jsut read back and if the pain is in a circle around her navel, that sounds like appendicitis? Is she feeling nauseous? Fever?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
She's been on naproxen for three months. She is a bit warm but not "feverish". She is not nauseous. I can do like you said and ask for an acid reducer and say the pepto didn't work. She said her tummy felt a little better after the last mega dose of herbs.<br><br>
Shelly
 

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Just playing devil's advocate (no pun intended!). Why call and ask for advice that you don't want? Just follow what you are doing, and the naturopath that you trust. shouldn't s/he tell you when you have exhausted your options or she is just too sick for her/him to continue treating her.<br><br>
You have not taken conventional advice twice, and if I were the rheumatologist, I would be a bit put off by you're calls and reluctance to take my suggestions. I would be glad for your honesty, though, and you should continue to keep them in the loop.<br><br>
Hope she's feeling better soon!
 

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2 things stand out for me...I can't take naproxen because it tears up my stomach all to hell and back. It would not surprise me if that was indeed the cause. And, I'd just tell the doc the pepto didn't work. You didn't try it, so of course it didn't work, but he doesn't have to know that first part. It's the little white lies that make us look like mainstream "normal" moms that will do whatever they say.
 

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Ditto on the "naproxen causes stomach hell" thing here. It's happened to me.<br><br>
Can I ask why Pepto-Bismol is problematic? I'm assuming it's because you have a distrust of OTC medications, but I've never heard any problems with that in particular.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
It's not that I distrust OTC medications. There are very few OTC that we use because we treat all of the things you would buy a OTC med for, with their more natural alternatives at the health food store.<br><br>
The biggest problem that I have with Pepto is that it contains aluminum which is a toxic heavy element. I don't believe that aluminum has any place in my child's body. We don't use aluminum pans or aluminum foil so it stands to reason that we would not bypass all our child's body's defenses and have our child drink a product that had aluminum in it.<br><br>
A lesser problem is that our child is on a diet free of food dyes and additives. Pepto contains food dyes. Our daughter's condition which could be JRA and it could be Still's disease (the Naturopath thinks she has Still's), either way, the condition is made worse by exposure to enviromental toxins and allergens. Food dyes are an allergen. I try not put it in my child's body. Even though pepto is cheap, it only costs $3.50. If her pain continues, and I have the money next week, I would go to the compounding pharmacy to get a bismuth formula made that was free of aluminum and dyes, for $35.<br><br>
But I wonder....if 2 caps of slippery elm 3x a day, and 2 caps of marshmallow root 3x a day, 3 mg of licorice root, 2 caps of l-glutamine 3x a day, 1 cap of quercetin 3x a day, 1 cap of turmeric 3x a day, plus probiotics 3x a day aren't helping this stomach pain, I have to wonder if a sanitized version of pepto would make a dent in the pain either. You should see this herb concoction stick to the side of the cup. It is coating her tummy just exactly like pepto would in my opinion. So it is almost kind of not really a lie to say I gave her pepto and it didn't work, because the herbal stuff is probably an equivalent.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
The doc is going to be calling me back because I called asking for a switch from oral naproxen to injectable. They are going to ask about her stomach pain and since they know I didn't give the abx, they might suspect that I didn't give the pepto and ask if I gave it. At that time I plan to tell them I gave it and that it didn't help, or that it only helped a little bit and she is still in a lot of pain.
 

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Wait, you DIDN"T give the antibiotics? Hmmmm. Has she had any blood work lately? She could actually have an infection. Have they checked her sed levels and her WBC? It could have nothing to do with the ear infection, but if she got sick enough it could have put her into a flare, which could have caused a systemic infection, in which case she'd need to take the abx.<br><br>
My son has lupus, so a little different. That's just ben my experience. I know that keeping your dd healthy and natural is your first priority, but at this point it sounds like she's in a lot of pain. I think getting her out of pain should be your first goal - waiting until next week to get the bismuth seems like a long time. I know if I had a stomach ache I wouldn't want to wait a week until I got medicine.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I didn't give her the antibiotics because antibiotics wreck the gut. The gut we have been working for a year to heal with probiotics and to get her poop perfect. I wasn't going to risk getting the constipation back for a childhood ear infection that could be treated with homeopathics and natural remedies. Dr. Mendelson of "How to raise a healthy child inspite of your doctor", did a study on children with ear infections 500 were given antibiotics and 500 were not given abx...both groups healed the same from their ear infection. This proved that most of the time a ear infection will heal on its own. This ear infection was due to teething and a gumboil, and homeopathic mercurius viv healed it, and the ear candles got out a ton of wax. I know the ear infection is gone without a doubt. We don't use antibiotics in our home as a general rule. She has no more ear pain. Yes, there is a chance the infection could have spread systemically, but isn't that unlikely? What would the symptoms be if that was the case?<br><br>
Shelly
 

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Discussion Starter #11
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>3_opihi</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7921756"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Hmmmm. Has she had any blood work lately? She could actually have an infection. Have they checked her sed levels and her WBC? It could have nothing to do with the ear infection, but if she got sick enough it could have put her into a flare, which could have caused a systemic infection, in which case she'd need to take the abx.<br><br>
My son has lupus, so a little different. That's just ben my experience. I know that keeping your dd healthy and natural is your first priority, but at this point it sounds like she's in a lot of pain. I think getting her out of pain should be your first goal - waiting until next week to get the bismuth seems like a long time. I know if I had a stomach ache I wouldn't want to wait a week until I got medicine.</div>
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Her bloodwork was done 2 months ago or so. Last sept. her sed rate was elevated and her wbc was normal. Her ana was elevated. 2 months ago when I called for results all they would tell me was that everything was normal and she was less ana positive than in sept. but that could be because we changed hospitals and labs. She is recieving medicine. It's called Natural Medicine. Hello, this is the Natural Family Living Dot Commune??!!??? She is on homeopathic remedies and a truckload of herbs for stomach pain. The way it works with me is this....we give the herbs a chance to work, she has only been on them since Saturday. When the herbs don't work, then we call the naturopath Monday, move onto another homeopathic or herbal remedy, when that doesn't work we think about doing the western medicine.<br><br>
Her pain is managable. At this point I spent my wad on the naturopath and herbs we have now and couldn't afford to get the bismuth until next Friday. She goes to the hospital again on Thursday to get her eyes checked and it may be possible to get some bloodwork done at that time. What would the bloodwork show?
 

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Okaaaaaay. I'm not sure what you're really asking then. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/redface.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Embarrassment"> If you're wondering about herbs, than maybe the health and healing forum would be better. If you're just wanting to vent, than go ahead.
 

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I was prescribed Naproxen for menstrual camps and they gave me HORRIBLE stomach pain. Felt like there was a raging fire inside my stomach. Oh and they barely did anything for the cramps. I'd definitely look into the Naproxen as the cause.
 

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Oh, with aluminum, I've seen it said (wish I saved the places where) that ingested aluminum is safe in small, limited doses because the liver filters it well. Injected aluminum (vaccines) and that absorbed thought the skin (deodorant) is dangerous because it goes straight to the brain. It might be worth it if it helps.
 

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Most doctors understand the "no artificial colours" thing. Just say it makes her spazzy. Generally, IME, the mainstream doctors will not freak out about that, especially if you try an accepted alternative, like aluminum and colour free bismuth.<br><br>
Pepto makes me and DS violently ill, so we had a similar discussion with the Rheumy.<br><br>
I would try the bismuth compound, and if that doesn't work, explain to the doc that you tried the bismuth from the compounding pharmacy and it didn't work.<br><br>
Naproxen can be really hard on poor tummies, but often the pain goes away after a week, which is why he told you to try pepto. Quite honestly, if the herbs didn't work, it might be a good choice to switch to one of the other NSAIDS. We found that getting the Naproxen compounded into a liquid really helped DS. He takes it with a glass of milk and a hearty breakfast when possible, preferably oatmeal.<br><br>
Also, my doctor calls ear infection antibiotic prescriptions "magic papers" and reminds me not to fill them for 2 days. 90% of the time, the kids get better. You could mention that she appeared to be on the mend, and so you never got the abx script filled.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
update: We took dd to the naturopath who gave her a homeopathic remedy that fixed her stomach pain (he wouldn't tell us what it was which really makes dh upset, he thinks we ought to know everything). She began eating foods, and since we were traveling to the docs all day I probably made a huge error and got her ice cream from silas and maddies. Now we have blood in the stool. It was healthy size, and the color of the ice cream, and she didn't force it, just 2T of blood came out with it. Now I am wondering just what in the heck was in that ice cream. I guess I will have to call the silas and maddie people. She probably accidentally got egg or corn which she is not supposed to have. Stomach pain is gone but we have still yet to reintroduce her naproxen....I don't want to call the naturopath and tell him I fed her ice cream because I am SUPPOSED to be introducing foods one at a time in a challenge....<br><br>
During her stool incident, she was very upset and scared and thought she was going to die...doula training came in handy because I showed her with water in a jug a guesstimate of about how much blood I thought she would have to lose before she would die (I just took 1/4 of what would be a hemmorrage for an adult...guessing) She could see that it would have taken quite a bit more blood loss to be deadly. I told her what to look out for, dizzyness and feeling faint, and to keep me posted on the amount because blood loss can accumulate, but she now knows that it wasn't enough to kill her.<br><br>
Shelly
 

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the stomach pain came back, and this time it was with constipation. She didn't poop since April 29th. I took her for a colonics treatment tonite and all that came out was a huge amount of gas bubbles. Now she is more cheerful than she has been in a month. The colonics took her pain away. We went to whole foods after the colonics and she cheerfully got out of the car and said "I'm going to try out my new butt", meaning walk around the store not in pain, i am guessing...but it was cute.<br><br>
I am going to regive her homeopathic since I think it got antedoted too.<br><br>
I had taken her to a doc that said to give her prevacid, but I didn't. He said it would work if it was acid causing the stomach pain. I am going to search around here and see what comes up on a search on gas and what it can mean if her pain is caused by gas.<br><br>
Could it mean that it isn't the naproxen or the curcumin causing the stomach pain, maybe not the proteolytic enzymes at all? If gas is the cause of the pain, then we can fix the gas and she could continue on naproxen.
 

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i just wanted to mention that childrens pepto is (i believe) actually just antacid, and perhaps your dr meant that? of course, even if he meant the adult stuff you could just "assume" he meant the children's.....
 
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