Mothering Forum banner

1 - 20 of 24 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,059 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Has anyone seen this study? The babycenter newsletter (that I have unsubbed from many times) had an article about a french study done by INSERM and I was wondering if anyone here had seen it and what you think about the study. My DH sees this as evidence that circ is good (this is really the only "solid" evidence he has come across thus far).<br>
Here's a link to an article about the study<br><a href="http://www.alertnet.org/thefacts/reliefresources/109031561033.htm" target="_blank">http://www.alertnet.org/thefacts/rel...9031561033.htm</a>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,533 Posts
These studies have come to unscientific conclusions. There are a number of letters from well informed scientists that respond to this type of erroneous article that you might want to read at:<br><a href="http://medicine.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?request=read-response&doi=10.1371/journal.pmed.0020298#r971" target="_blank">http://medicine.plosjournals.org/per...d.0020298#r971</a>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,538 Posts
We've discussed this here:<br><br><a href="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=361353" target="_blank">http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=361353</a><br><br>
HTH. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,770 Posts
There was a study presented at this year's World AIDS conference that female circ is associated with a 25% lower incidence of AIDS. Ask your dh if he would be willing to circ a baby girl to lower her chances of getting HIV.<br><br>
The US has the highest rate of circ in the developed world as well as the highest rate of AIDS. If circ were so protective, why do we have rates far beyond any other developed country?<br><br>
No one but no one - not even the SOBs who are pushing circ to prevent HIV - says that circ alone is the answer. Safe sex is still key! If you're going to need to use condoms (or practice fidelity with a partner of known status) then just keep the foreskin where it belongs - on the owner's penis!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,059 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>eternal_grace</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">We've discussed this here:<br><br><a href="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=361353" target="_blank">http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=361353</a><br><br>
HTH. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"></div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
Thanks, I didn't see it anywhere <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
535 Posts
Wasn't this the study where they took all intact men, circed some, and left others intact. I wonder if maybe the circed guys were just a wee bit sore and weren't going around having sex as much as the guys who didn't have pieces sliced off of their sensitive organs?<br><br>
It is one of the stupidest articles I've read. Why not focus on prevention and education, instead of something some people are going to take as being a safety net against HIV and neglecting safe sex? I can just hear it now- "We don't need a condom becaused I'm circed so there's no risk of HIV."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
87 Posts
Hi Everyone,<br><br>
As I mentioned in the other thread, I asked my husband, who teaches research design, to look at the study. He actually took the original study and plugged the numbers into various statistical models to verify the statistics. In short, what the autors did, was to look at a number of factors, such as circumcision, religion, national origin, sexual partners, marital status as predictors of HIV. While circumcision did show up as a predictor of HIV, other factors were more significant predictors. For example, being Catholic showed up as a stronger predictor than circumcision in avoiding HIV. So, I guess we can all convert to Catholicism and avoid HIV! So, apparently the authors shot themselves in the foot by using various factors as predictors of HIV. The sad thing is that one of the strongest predictors of HIV was number of sexual partners, which the authors never highlighted.<br><br>
Also, this was supposed to be a double blind study. How can you do a double blind study involved circumcision. That would imply that the individuals were circumcised without knowing it! Hmmmm<br><br>
Anyway, I keep urging my husband to to publish a response, but he's not sure. He doesn't feel strongly about circumcision, but he's very passionate about his statistics, and this study really got him going.<br><br>
Just my two cents<br><br>
Lise
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,770 Posts
Oh, Lise, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE get your dh to publish an expose of this study...this AIDS b.s. is setting the intactivist movement back YEARS IMO. It is getting so much mainstream coverage, so much public health research funding, and so much online coverage...it is the "new" reason to push circ and it is so hard to get through to people! They hear "circ prevents AIDS" and their new babies don't stand a chance. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/mecry.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="crying"><br><br>
I am serious, I think it would save thousands if not millions of babies if your dh could expose this study for the crap that it is.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,045 Posts
I have to wonder about people who would rather cut off pieces of their baby at birth to "protect" against AIDS than taking the time to teach them about safe sex practices as they mature.<br><br>
If a parent circumcises his child to prevent AIDS, and the child shares needles as a young adult and still acquires HIV, would the parent still feel they were justified in having their child circumcised?<br><br>
Typical of our impatient American society, I guess. Why spend time educating the child when you can have the "problem" removed in an hours time?<br><br>
**dripping with sarcasm**<br><br>
~Nay
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,277 Posts
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">There was a study presented at this year's World AIDS conference that female circ is associated with a 25% lower incidence of AIDS</td>
</tr></table></div>
Can I get a link for that?<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">If a parent circumcises his child to prevent AIDS, and the child shares needles as a young adult and still acquires HIV, would the parent still feel they were justified in having their child circumcised?</td>
</tr></table></div>
Sure, they'll just think of it as a "freak accident" instead.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,928 Posts
Strangely, while researching this study, I found a research project that said condoms made no difference in the transmission of HIV/AIDS and yet circumcision does! How extreme can they possibly get? This just illustrates how far they will go to promote male circumcision.<br><br><br><br>
Frank
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,058 Posts
I have to admit that as someone who has only recently learned the truth about circumcision, hearing all the coverage of this study did make me question whether I should have my baby boy circumcised. After doing more research I'm, of course, still not going to, but I think that other parents who otherwise might not circ will now view it as medically necessary. I wish they would wait until more studies are done and the results are reviewed more before just releasing studies like this to the media!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
59 Posts
This is ridiculous. What's even more sad is that people believe in this and think there is merit here. I want to find that article that links female circ and AIDS and show that to my feminist girlfriends who are procirc.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,538 Posts
Good points everyone.<br><br>
Also, in the thread below we discussed that this is a study that professional medical journals REFUSED to publish because of serious flaws (that have been pointed out). It has been pointed out [below] that the 'researchers' (amd I use this term very loosely in this case) published this study in an obscure online journal, and they had to PAY for publication.<br><br>
It really makes me wonder why on earth the mainstream press is all over this study, which is serioulsy flawed and published in some obscure online 'pay-to-be-published' medium?? Any hidden agendas there at all??
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
929 Posts
Female circumcision prevents HIV infections:<br><br><a href="http://www.ias-2005.org/planner/Abstracts.aspx?AID=3138" target="_blank">http://www.ias-2005.org/planner/Abstracts.aspx?AID=3138</a>
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
929 Posts
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>eternal_grace</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Good points everyone.<br><br>
Also, in the thread below we discussed that this is a study that professional medical journals REFUSED to publish because of serious flaws (that have been pointed out). It has been pointed out [below] that the 'researchers' (amd I use this term very loosely in this case) published this study in an obscure online journal, and they had to PAY for publication.<br><br>
It really makes me wonder why on earth the mainstream press is all over this study, which is serioulsy flawed and published in some obscure online 'pay-to-be-published' medium?? Any hidden agendas there at all??</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
Since this is all over the media for the second time in three months, I'm beginning to think that someone seriously pro-circ and with lots of cash has a definite agenda.<br><br>
I think it's even more tragic that parents in the US will think that something done on adult men in Africa, allegedly to respond to a problem there, applies to their baby boys in America. Just HOW do they come to that conclusion even if the study were valid?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,928 Posts
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>eternal_grace</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">It really makes me wonder why on earth the mainstream press is all over this study, which is serioulsy flawed and published in some obscure online 'pay-to-be-published' medium?? Any hidden agendas there at all??</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
The mainstream press is searching for eyeballs. HIV/AIDS is the most feared disease of the day. It's sneaky, is easily transmitted, it's transmitted sexually and it's deadly. Publishing anything about HIV/AIDS will grab eyeballs. Of course, circumcision has always been credited with preventing or curing the most feared disease du jour. Next, it will be credited with preventing/curing Avian Flu.<br><br>
The researchers have issued press releases to get attention to their project. This is highly frowned on in the research community yet these people have issued at least 3 separate rounds of press releases this year. It also appears that they read message boards like this one and issue these press releases to counter criticism on these boards. Legitimate researchers would not do this but would let their research stand on it's own.<br><br>
The media does not research these press releases. They publish/announce what's served up to them whether it is well done or a pile of manure. If it's published on the air, on line or in the print media, it instantly has credibility for many people. I have an example of this. I have a friend who is a DJ in a night club. When I walk in, he will usually announce that a famous local radio DJ has just entered and all eyes swing in my direction. No matter how much I deny being that DJ, some people will not believe me because Chris has a microphone and said I was. I don't even look remotely close to the famous DJ but few have actually seen him, so I become that man.<br><br>
These people realize the power of the media to shape public opinion and they are using it to promote circumcision of infant boys every way they can.<br><br><br><br>
Frank
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
929 Posts
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Frankly Speaking</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Next, it will be credited with preventing/curing Avian Flu.<br><br>
Frank</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
LOL, you know, I've been thinking the same thing....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
59 Posts
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Daisyuk</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I think it's even more tragic that parents in the US will think that something done on adult men in Africa, allegedly to respond to a problem there, applies to their baby boys in America. Just HOW do they come to that conclusion even if the study were valid?</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
Not to mention most or at least much of the HIV infections in Africa have been attributed to infected vaccinations! So the AIDS epidemic there is not always attributed to sexual intercourse. Smart "researchers".
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,538 Posts
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Frankly Speaking</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">The mainstream press is searching for eyeballs. HIV/AIDS is the most feared disease of the day. It's sneaky, is easily transmitted, it's transmitted sexually and it's deadly. Publishing anything about HIV/AIDS will grab eyeballs. Of course, circumcision has always been credited with preventing or curing the most feared disease du jour. Next, it will be credited with preventing/curing Avian Flu.<br><br>
The researchers have issued press releases to get attention to their project. This is highly frowned on in the research community yet these people have issued at least 3 separate rounds of press releases this year. It also appears that they read message boards like this one and issue these press releases to counter criticism on these boards. Legitimate researchers would not do this but would let their research stand on it's own.<br><br>
The media does not research these press releases. They publish/announce what's served up to them whether it is well done or a pile of manure. If it's published on the air, on line or in the print media, it instantly has credibility for many people. I have an example of this. I have a friend who is a DJ in a night club. When I walk in, he will usually announce that a famous local radio DJ has just entered and all eyes swing in my direction. No matter how much I deny being that DJ, some people will not believe me because Chris has a microphone and said I was. I don't even look remotely close to the famous DJ but few have actually seen him, so I become that man.<br><br>
These people realize the power of the media to shape public opinion and they are using it to promote circumcision of infant boys every way they can.<br><br><br><br>
Frank</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
That makes a lot of sense, Frank. I was thinking the coverage would have to be based on press releases, since it's cropping up across the (mainstream) board with very similar wording/ slant. It's scary to think that these press releases get published and rehashed in large internationally distributed publications (such as Newsweek) without being critically examined at all.
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
Top