[Ruth]

My 11-year-old daughter wants to go to camp this summer for ten days (the shorter ones conflict with other stuff!).

A little background: she is an attachment-parented of two older parents. We have had foster children over the years, but basically our 11-year-old has grown up mostly as an only child. We homeschool her, and although she is involved in many things (competitive dance, community theatre, etc.), usually one of us is in the audience working on our computers. We don't really get involved in her stuff too much unless we are required to, or she asks us to help. She is very independent and is very excited about this camp. This is totally her idea and not ours. We have visited the camp and LOVE it, and if she is going to go to a camp, this is it. Our concern is that she cannot contact us by telephone and we cannot contact her by telephone. Writing is allowed, but telephoning is not (and I assuming texting is not). They will post pictures on a secure website every day.

Is this normal for camps? I never went to camp and have been asking around, most people say this is common. This feels to unnatural to me. I am sure she will probably be fine, but she says things like "I think all kids should go to camp even if they cry the first night."

I don't want to stand in her way, but I also don't see the point of making kids "independent" by disallowing telephone contact with parents. I don't need to talk to her every day for hours, but a 2 minute telephone call, "mom, I am fine and happy and safe" would be great for me.

 

[MusicianDad]

Back when I was that age, the onle phone contact to or from home when at camp was if there was an emergency.

 

[Super~Single~Mama]

I agree with the camp actually.

I worked at camps for a long time, and my experience was always that when kids (no matter the age) talked to their parents on the phone they got more homesick, not less.

The camps that I worked at also made a huge effort to post pictures of all the campers each week so that no parent would check the secure site and not see pics of their child - these pics will tell you that your child is happy and safe. Also, my camps always did parent phone calls if there was something wrong. The kids didn't always know about these calls, but the counselor or age group director would call the parents if there were major homesickness issues, or if someone got hurt (sometimes an injured camper could call home depending on the severity.)

The counselors are also very well trained and know how to deal with homesickness - they're practically professionals!

A bit of advice though - try to send her not at the very beginning of the summer, the counselors aren't quite in the groove yet, but not towards the end either. Starting around the second half of the summer the counselors start getting a little bored with all the activities since they do the same ones all the time. So, in the first half of the summer is best!

 

[Ruth]

UGGGH, I thought I would find people here that sympathized with me.

I hadn't thought about the homesick getting worse. I guess, I just think if she is homesick, she should come home, not stay there and stay homesick. What is the point of that?

At first I was worried that this camp would take my kid and disappear. How do I know they don't take all the pictures the first day and then post them gradually over the next ten days? How do I know they don't make them write ten letters and then mail them over the next ten days? Now, that I visited the camp and find that it is not a major conspiracy, I feel better, but I still feel it is so weird that they want to force this independence so strictly.

Nobody suggests that a spouse stay out of the home and prohibit calls to make each spouse more independent. We all depend on each other, don't we?

We never left her in a day care. We owned our own business and had an on-site day car where we could go check on her whenever we wanted to. I nursed her there every 45 minutes when she was itsy bitsy. As she got older, we got rid of the on-site day care and worked from home and had mother's helpers or tutors, but we were always at home.

Doesn't attachment parenting go on through the teenage years?

OK, feel free to tell me I am being silly. I need input here, even if you disagree!

 

[ziggy]

I've worked as a camp counselor going on 7 years. I can verify that, yes, calls home make homesickness worse. However, there are also logistical issues.

Each cabin has, let's say, 8 campers. There are, say, 10 cabins. That's 80 campers. Let's say that we allow campers a 3 minutes phone call each. We can basically extend that to 5 minutes, cos there will be goodbyes and I Love Yous and things like that. One counselor would have to bring the camper over to wherever the phone call was being made each day. So, it probably takes around 10 minutes in total for every camper to make that one phone call home each day. Now, let's say that at least half the campers want to make that phone call home, so that's 40 campers. That's over six hours. Even if you had four phones going at once or something, it would still be well over an hour, just for phone calls. And that's not counting in the kid who says "I was pushed off the jungle gym today," causing the parent to freak out when, in reality, what happened was the kid was standing on the lowest run of a jungle gym ladder and another kid ran by and bumped them.

If the kid is hurt, we'll call you. If things are going wrong, we'll call you. But it just doesn't make logistical sense to have campers call home every day.

Plus, the counselors want to work there, and want to make the kids happy. We're not doing it for the money!

 

[Ruth]

That is the exact explanation I got at camp.

I understand why kids are not allowed to bring cell phones and bring computers with them. That kinda would ruin the camp experience if they weren't making new friends and riding horses, but instead talking to their friends or cousins or parents all the time. Or if they were online all the time.

But, what is wrong with letting them take cell phones with them and letting them use them for 2 minutes each night. "Mom, I am fine, I am safe, and am having fun. Don't worry about me." That is all that I want or need to hear.

If I had forced her to go (say, I had to spend two months in Peru for work, for example), I understand how not talking to her would be easier on us both. But, this is her idea and she is not going to run home because she misses us. I really want to know should I go get her when she is miserable for more than one day. I will know it in her voice. I don't think letters will do it.

I think I am going to lose this battle. The only person that agrees with me so far, is the owner of my favorite vegetarian restaurant. She is also Hispanic like me and she said, "Oh, that is so unnatural not to talk to your kids." Maybe it is just my culture.

 

[MusicianDad]

Attachment parenting is about working with your child on their needs, at some point that means not being available every second of the day. Eventually a child will feel the need to be independant from their parents.

If it's her idea and she wants to go, then chances are she's ready to handle 10 days without calling mom. If it reaches the point where she needs to talk to you and maybe even needs to come home, then a good summer camp won't prevent it from happening. Back when I was in the summer camp age, there was always at least one child who did go home at some point because of homesickness.

I think it's important to understand they aren't trying to cut you off from your daughter. It's just that part of the camp experience is that you get a chance to do things without your parents. Well, that and staying up past lights out to tell ghost stories.

Spouses are expected to have some level of independence. They are adults and by the time your an adult you need to be able to take care of yourself. Plenty of adults find themselves in a situation where they are away from their family for some reason and can't call every night.

 

[chiromamma]

So my kids go to a middle school that incorporates lots of travel into the curriculum...DD is about to finish 8th grade and she has done several camping trips, traveled to Mesa Verde, with 10 inches of snow, Washington, DC and Tijuana to work in an orphanage. Next year she will start the year with a 10 day back country trip. The HS has traveled to very remote locations in Mexico and Guatemala...all parents feel that the whole thing is more challenging for parents than kids and great training for sending them of to college.
The trips where kids have snuck cell phones and called parents when things get rough have turned out very poorly.

I've learned that raising a kid and letting them go when they are ready is not about me or my discomfort. It's my responsibility to work through those anxieties myself and not share it with my kids or hold them back.
Are there sleepless nights? Yes, there used to be. But that's my problem. I would nevber dream of holding my kids back because of my anxieties.

Let your daughter go. Do a thorough check of the camp so your DH can talk you off the ledge when you start to freak.

 

[ziggy]

So let's say your daughter was allowed to carry a cell phone.

Where is it that she goes to make this phone call so none of the rest of the children feel bad? Or does she make it in front of them? What if all but 1 kid brings a cell phone? What if the cell phone falls into the pool? What if it's left in the cabin during the day and another camper thought "ohh, neat, a cell phone. I'll take it!"?

 

[ziggy]

Also... it wouldn't be "Mom, I'm fine, I'm safe, I'm having fun."

It would probably be more like "Today we had cereal for breakfast and for lunch everyone had hot dogs but I HATE hot dogs so I had chips and pasta salad but the pasta salad had olives in it and I HATE olives but it's ok because one of the other girls in my cabin named sarah really really really likes olives so she ate all of my olives but my counselor told us not to share food and I thought it was OK that we were sharing food and then we went to the swimming pool and we wanted to have a cannonball contest but when maria slipped and fell down so we weren't allowed to have our cannonball contest because she was bleeding so we played sharks and minnows instead and then we played simon says in the water which is a lot harder than playing it out of the water... etc"

I'm really not trying to be mean. And if your kid is so home sick that they are just not consolable (usually at least 1 or 2 days of counselor training is how to deal with homesickness) we will call you, and in some circumstances, we'll have them call you. And you can always call the office and say "hi, I'm Maria's mom. Can I speak with one of her counselors? I just want to see how she's doing." If we can't talk right then we'll call you back in the evening to answer any questions or concerns you might be having.

 

[Oriole]

If I haven't worked at the camp, I would so be on your side.

s
It makes no sense at all not to be allowed to talk to your child.

However, I did get to eb a camp counselor, and while I was surprised by the policy at first, it made perfect sense by the end of the first day.

 

[karne]

OP, I did post on your other thread about this topic, but you got a lot of responses so I wasn't sure if mine got a bit buried. I so identify with your concerns, but I want to let you know that for us, everything ended up really well. Homesickness and navigating the separation from parents, as well as having the full immersion of living with fellow campers, really are developmental tasks. My dd loved camp, but was extremely homesick. She wasn't the only one. The counselors were great...supportive, encouraging, and all of the kids made it through just fine. I thought that because of the homesickness my dd wouldn't want to go back, but quite the opposite. She is so energized to return to camp, and she knows that she can manage missing us at night. It's just that the first time is such a huge step. You might benefit from talking with the camp director about this, and maybe some other parents as references. there is also info on the web about the developmental value in terms of kids mastering homesickness and seperation.

Oh, and it was Ziggy, who has posted on this thread, who gave me so much info last year when I was in your shoes. You might not remember, but thanks Ziggy! It helped!

Good luck.

 

[ziggy]

I'm such a summer camp geek. It's ridiculous.

I'm also REALLY REALLY happy that I'll be working at a summer camp again this year. Seriously, I applied in late December - that's how excited I am.

 

[nextcommercial]

I'm also a summer camp geek. (Silver Birch Ranch in Wisconsin)

I am 45. I am STILL friends with my summer camp friends.

I STILL remember the name of my favorite cabin.

I STILL remember the name of the first horse I fell off of. (I swear he was holding his breath when they put the saddle on)

I still remember the words we made up to the song "I'm a lumberjack" and sang it to the entire camp in 1976 after we lost a boat motor in the lake. It was our public apology to everyone. It was SO dang fun.

I can't hear "Billy Don't be a Hero" without remembering a bunch of us sitting on a dock singing it loud enough to be heard for six miles in every direction.

I went back for years after I was too old. But, I worked there for whole summers instead. Until I was 25.

Honestly.... Summer camp was my most important experience in my whole young life. (not my adult life.. I'm not that pathetic)

I would have SUCH a hard time letting my 11 yr old go without being nearby. So, I totally understand where you are coming from. I would be heartbroken and so lonely for her. But, as a former camper, I wouldn't have traded that experience for any other experience in the world.

 

[neptunemama]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiromamma I've learned that raising a kid and letting them go when they are ready is not about me or my discomfort. It's my responsibility to work through those anxieties myself and not share it with my kids or hold them back. Are there sleepless nights? Yes, there used to be. But that's my problem. I would nevber dream of holding my kids back because of my anxieties. Let your daughter go. Do a thorough check of the camp so your DH can talk you off the ledge when you start to freak.

This is excellent advice. My older dd went to sleepaway camp last summer, at almost 9, for the first time. Same rules your dd's camp will have, no phone calls etc... Hers was 5 days, 4 nights. She found the camp in the brochure from her fave place to take day camps and had to go. Sh and I weren't sure she was ready, not sure if we were either, but we let her go. She was nervous, excited, didn't know any other girls and had a great time. I was sad and cried when the bus left (I held it together till the bus was gone) but I dealt. And my dd loved it so much, that she is going, by choice again, to two different sleepaway camps, for 12 days total this summer. And my younger dd, who is 7, is also going to sleepaway camp this summer, on her own, no sister. She insisted she had to go to sleepaway camp b/c she's old enough. Not so sure, but I know that though she may be sad at first, I know she'll have a great time.

My older dd came back w/a new independence from her time at camp last summer. So cool to see. And dh and I grew also. We learned to let go, and we realized that we'd done something right as parents as our dd had the confidence to take such an important step toward independence by her own choosing. It didn't diminish our relationship, in fact it enhanced it b/c she grew so much as a person during those 5 days.

 

[aniT]

My daughter went to a 3 day Girl Scout Camp the summer she was 7. The were closed the summer she was 8, she went for 5 days last summer at 9 and will again be going for 5 days this summer. They do not allow cell phones or any of that. They don't call and the parents can't call either. As a matter of fact, if there is an emergency you call the Council office in Portland and they call the camp in Washington an hour away. My older daughter went for 10 days when she was 11/12 (I can't remember if it was before or after her birthday.) They have always had a great time and we have never had any issues. We don't even get pictures posted online every day.

I say let your daughter go. Kids go to summer camp all the time and really I don't think I have heard of any disappearing from one. I know your worried mama, I get worried too. My head thinks of all these "what ifs" Is she safe? What if something happens? I am sure you will think these things for the rest of their lives.. even when they are older. But m you have to let go at some point and going to summer camp is a great way to have fun and a bit of Independence as well.

I always wanted to go to summer camp. I bet it's a blast!!!

 

[panamama]

i always wanted to go to summer camp as a child, and never did. i spent every summer at my grandma's house. so what did i do w/ DS? yeah...sent him to my mother's house every summer until he 11 or 12...maybe even 13.

BUT i finally sent him to summer camp i think the year before he started high school and it was SO.WORTH.IT. (expensive!!!) he loved it, and it was a great experience for him.

they (the first camp DS went to) had the same rules (no calls -- even all cell phones 2-ways, etc were confiscated from campers at registration and not returned until the end of camp) as the OP posted, and that made me extremely nervous. the only thing that eased my mind was that 1) the camp had this wonderful resource on their website that was basically a directory of previous camper's families you could contact to talk/ask about the camp and their child(ren)'s experience and 2) the camp was 3 miles from my mother's home, so even clear across the country i knew there'd be someone close by if he needed.

anyway, DS loved camp so much that he went to another camp the following year. and he just said to me the other day, "why didn't i go to a camp last summer? can i go this summer?" i really hadn't thought about it i guess b/c after we pulled him out of school to homeschool, we stopped thinking in school-year calendar terms.

but now he wants to go again and he and his traditional-schooled BFF are trying to find one they can do together. (i'd hoped he might want to go to the not-back-to-school camp for unschoolers, but he thinks his BFF might think that's a little crazy.

)

i think it really depends on the child, but that more often than not, camp can be a wonderful experience. i say go for it if DD feels comfortable and wants to, and you (parents) agree she is ready. i promise, as much as you'll miss her, the phone thing won't be horrible. and 11 days goes by faster than you think.

 

[TerriKay]

My DD is 13 & is looking forward to her 5th year of summer camp. She has gone to girl scout camp every year since she was 8 & has LOVED every minute of it!! Yes, she has had some homesickness, minor but it was still there. If she didn't get a little homesick, I would be worried about what I was doing at home! But, honestly, I wouldn't take that experience or those memories away from her for anything.

Our camp also doesn't allow parent phone calls because of the same reasons everybody else had... homesickness & time crunches. It doesn't allow ANY type of electronics & certainly not any cell phones. (Besides cell phones don't work so well in the mountains.) All councelors had walkie-talkies w/ GPS so if there was an emergency, they could call back to the lodge & the lodge could call for help. Phones are available for emergency use only. If we had an emergency, we could call & the camp director would get a msg to the camper. If they have an emergency camp staff would call us. (We have never had to do either.)

Does your DD have a friend that can go along as a camp buddy? Maybe that would ease your mind a bit to know she was with a friend. However, 10 days is a LONG time to room with one of your friends at that age. My DD had a camp buddy for her 10 day camp & the staff actually gave them the option to switch cabins at the halfway point. They jumped at the chance because they had had too much together time. They were still together during the day, but had a little time with new friends for the evening.

As for letters home, to be perfectly honest with you, I was lucky if I even got a letter during the entire week!! When she was gone to the 10 day camp, I got 1 letter. During the shorter 5 day camps, it was hit or miss if I would get anything. The first year she was gone, I wrote to her every day! Then when I picked her up at the end of the week, she spent half her time on the drive back down the mountain reading all her mail!!

She had been SOOOOO busy having fun that she didn't want to stop long enough to even read her mail. The past few years, we have sent her with pre-printed "camp" postcards, so I could actually get mail from her. They say ...

Dear_________
Camp is __________
I am _____________
Love _________________

Before camp, she addresses them & stamps them & even fills in the Dear & Love blanks. Then she really only has to take the time to fill in 2 blanks. Last year I got... Dear Mom & Dad, Camp is great. I am awesome. Love Kailey! lol

One year my now 17 year old neice mailed out all her notecards to the family, but hadn't even stopped to sign them. We all got these cards in the mail that were postmarked from camp, but blank on the inside.

They are busy, having fun, learning new skills, & growing in their independence. Isn't that what we ALL want for our kids? Your DD sounds like a smart, well adjusted kid & if you have done your job as a parent, which I suspect you have, she will be fine!! Take your cues from her. She sounds ready for this next step in growing up. Let her test her wings. If you have checked out the camp & everything looks good (except for the phone issue), let her go!! She will have a blast & make new friends.

While she is gone, making a list of things to keep yourself busy. It will go faster for you if you are not sitting there stressing about her the entire time. But if you are doing anything fun, don't tell her about it until she gets back home. If she thinks she is missing out, if might make her homesick.

Good luck!!

 

[nextcommercial]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TerriKay While she is gone, making a list of things to keep yourself busy. It will go faster for you if you are not sitting there stressing about her the entire time. But if you are doing anything fun, don't tell her about it until she gets back home. If she thinks she is missing out, if might make her homesick. Good luck!!

Ooh. good idea!

One year, I sent my daughter off to camp, and then on the way home, I stopped at Home Depot, and spent the rest of the week painting her room with the four different obnoxiously bright colors that she had been asking me for. Then, I bought some new organization things in those same colors and reorganized her room. So, she came home to a new room, and I still felt connected to her.

*I sent her off with my Mom to camp that year.... LOL.. I wasn't ready to let her go by herself yet*

 

[mtiger]

WHen I was a kid, the camp I went to was 4 weeks (it was an ethincally oriented camp). Sundays were visiting days, but the camp director discouraged parents from coming the first w/e as a lot of kids got really homesick after the visits. This was before cell phones, so the only phones that were available were pay phones, and those were off limits except for emergencies.

Neither of my kids went to sleep-away camp, except for Scout camp for my son for a couple/three of years. Since they spent the summer with their Dad, it just wasn't even on the radar (for Scout camp, I gave up one of my two weeks with him).

I think it's a good experience for kids.