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Discussion Starter · #62 ·
I am really needing some perspective and help from an AP point of view.

We have allowed ds (now 17 months) to use a binky since I wanted to make sure all his sucking needs were met while bottlefeeding. Now I have a child who is hopelessly addicted to his binky! He would have it in his mouth literally all day long if I let him. I am trying to figure out if I should just let it go and trust that he will leave it behind on his own accord when he's ready, or if I need to do some intervention. And if I do decide to gradually get rid of it, how would I do that in a gentle and appropriate way?

There are times when it's obvious to me that for whatever reason, he really does need his pacifier. He has been consistently having a cuddle time with me everymorning where he goes and asks for his bottle and binky and comes and sits on my lap for 15-20 minutes. I also still want to use it at nap and bed times. I want to be able to use it as a comfort object (in my arms). But there are other times when I feel it's simply a habit. He will be going along playing just fine and will happen to notice it in one of my several hiding places and if he sees it, that's it, he's got to have it. If I try to remove it (even at mealtimes sometimes) he protests loudly. I have had some success with having him say "bye-bye" to it and leave it under his pillow after naps, but even that has been limited. He will turn around later and go whine for it. Distraction has not been very effective--when he wants a binky, he wants a binky!

I was talking to my sil yesterday and she suggested that it's a control issue--she felt that if I just backed off and let him have it as much as he wants, he would use it less and less because he would feel more secure that it would be there when he needed it. That idea makes a lot of sense to me, and I am going to try that for a few weeks. But I would love to have other ideas too. I am also going to try holding him more often and making sure that he's getting enough comfort in other ways.

I really hate being the binky police, and it has become a source of frustration between ds and me. I really want to just do like I would if he were nursing and trust that he will give it up when ready. But I am having a hard time trusting whether or not that will really work. I think in a way this dilemma represents my learning to trust in attachment parenting--I love AP and believe it but still have inner "fights" sometimes where it's hard to leave behind all the prior teaching and assumptions about children, KWIM? Also, I know the binky is an emotional issue for me because every time I see it it reminds me that he isn't nursing and I wish he was. So I think I am maybe unfairly biased against the binky because of that--I really hate it and always have.

Anyway, I gotta go because my little boy needs some mama time, but I hope I covered everything that was on my mind!
 

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Our DS loves his binky too, Laurel. Ever since he was about 9-10 months, I've put the limit that it is only for "cuddling." I just noticed that we were giving it to him ALL the time, and knew that was not what I wanted for him. Like you, I wanted to make sure his sucking needs were met, so we allowed him to have it from the time he was very little. But when he was just holding it in his mouth while playing, I knew it was time to start setting limits.

Anyway, the first word he showed signs of comprehending was "binky" and the first word he tried to say was "binky." He really loves his binky! :LOL But he also knows that it is just for cuddling. He doesn't always like it, but it is a rule he understands very well. When he asks for it, which is usually by pointing to my pocket where I keep it (trying to keep it out of sight), I'll let him know that he can have it if he is ready to cuddle. Sometimes all he needs is a 2 minute snuggle, and then he decides he is bored, and he'll spit it out as he climbs off my lap. He does try to get away with climbing off my lap and keeping it now and then, but as long as I remind him it is just for cuddling, he is usually pretty good about spitting it out for me. If he doesn't want to, I remind him that he has the choice to cuddle with it. I usually just say "The binky is for cuddling. Do you want to cuddle mommy, or get down and play?"

Lately, I've started limiting it more to "sleepy times" and just trying to remind myself not to be so quick to offer it, even with cuddles. He has a hard time sometimes with that, but for the most part he seems to be doing really well with the very slight adjustment. I want to take things really slow with it, so he isn't traumatized. But (and maybe this isn't very AP) I really don't want him still using it when he's four. I know I've heard stories of kids that get to be about 3 or 4 and decide it is icky and throw it away. So, if you're comfortable with letting him wean himself, I'm sure it will happen, Laurel. But, if you want to gradually wean him from it, I'm sure you can do that in a very gentle way too.


Anyway, hope my little rambling offered something helpful.
 

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Thanks for starting this thread! I, too had difficulties with bf my dd. She was in the NICU for about 4 days when she was born and was given a bottle and I wasn't allowed to hold her for about 3 days. When we did try nursing, she just flat out refused to do it. It wasn't coming as quickly as she wanted it. Unfortunately, she wasn't a baby to show signs of hunger; she would just wake up and be hungry and want to eat NOW! She had little patience to figure out how to suckle and get the milk from mommy. I pumped exclusively for her until I went back to work and I have finally found peace with my decision to switch her to formula. It breaks my heart that we never had a nursing relationship, but it royally ticks me off when bf moms assume I don't care about my baby. The assumptions and the looks you get are horrible.

I'm desperately hoping that the nursing relationship I have with our twins (due in 8 days!!!) will be much better.
 

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Discussion Starter · #65 ·
Nemmer, thanks. The scenario you described is exactly what I envision: binky used at sleep times and when comfort is needed in mama's arms. At this point, I know that enforcing a cuddle-only rule would involve a lot of angst. He has a total meltdown--either tantrum or sobbing--if I don't give it to him when he wants it.

One challenge to all this is that my dh doesn't care if ds uses a pacifier. This is one of a very few parenting things we've disagreed on. As far as dh is concerned, it's perfectly fine if he sucks on it all day long until he's 3 or 4. So I find it very hard to be consistent in my handling of it when dh won't do the same.
 

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Laurel, does he primarily want it when he sees it? Or is it something he'll ask for even without the visual reminder? If he only asks when he sees it, maybe you could start by making sure it is out of sight most of the time? I use my pocket as an out-of-sight hiding place. Although, by now, DS knows to ask for it by reaching for my pocket. For awhile, he was even taking my hand and guiding it to my pocket! :LOL
: Anyway, good luck! I do feel your frustration, truly!
 

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Fleurette, welcome! We do know all about your frustrations, and hope you find some comfort knowing you aren't alone. I really hope you do have much better success with your twins! Congrats on their upcoming arrival!
I too have hopes that next time around I'll have a longer breastfeeding relationship with my child. I think we all do.
Nice to meet you!
 

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Discussion Starter · #68 ·
Originally posted by Nemmer
Laurel, does he primarily want it when he sees it? Or is it something he'll ask for even without the visual reminder? /QUOTE]

Both! If he sees it, he's guaranteed to want it. I do have several places I've tried to hide it, but he knows where all of those are and will go to that place and whine and point until I get it out. I like your idea of using your pocket--I may try that. I suspect he will still ask for it but at least he won't be able to see it in my pocket so maybe it will be more out of sight, out of mind.
 

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Hi Lisa, it might help you to try to sort out exactly why you are so troubled with your ds still using a binky. You mention that it reminds you that you can't breastfeed him, but it sounds as if there might be other factors involved too. Do you have health or dental concerns? Without knowing more about your reasoning behind the timing needs, it's hard to figure out what might be helpful suggestions for you. If there is a health or developmental reason behind your attempting to get him to give up the binky, then taking gradual steps in this direction now seems wise. But I am not sure why it sometimes seeming to be more of a habit rather than a comfort object is worrying you - is it because you are afraid he won't want to give up the habit if it isn't challenged? I'm not saying "oh don't worry about it" but from my advanced perspective of having a 4 year old
I've seen that time does bring an end to many things I thought would never change. Your s-i-l's advice seems valid and I'm glad you are going to try to see what happens for awhile.

My ds didn't much use a binky except for his early months (he wasn't that interested so we just stopped using it and he didn't seem to miss it) we had a terrible time getting him to give up his bottle. Though we ignored his ped's advice to wean him off of it at a year old since he just wasn't ready, the longer it went the more concerned we got about damage to his teeth. At around 21 months we finally gave him a choice of a sippy cup or using one of Avent's transitional nipples (he did get some transition time, we didn't cut out the bottle nipple completely at once). He hated the "green nipple" and after two days of protesting both choices, he accepted the sippy cup and never looked back. But I think if he had seemed extremely distraught about the change we would have stopped the process and tried again in a week or so.

Perhaps, like I find myself doing at times, you feel that because you adopted your son, it's of crucial importance that you not do anything that might disrupt his sense of security at all, for fear that this will cause him problems as he grows up. Even though I think we adoptive moms know in our bones that giving birth is not the only factor in having a securely attached child, it's sometimes hard to hold fast to that knowledge when issues like this one come up. I know I worry about inadvertently challenging my son's sense of comfort and attachment; usually when I find myself fretting about this I realize it's one of those "adoption issues" rearing its head, and have to reassure myself so I don't allow him to, say, have 10 candy bars before dinner just so I don't damage his psyche forever (just kidding, but you know what I mean!)
 

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Thank you for starting this thread!! I hate even mentioning my kids were/are bottle fed because I don't feel like explainming why in every post but hate how some people react if you don't explain.Ugh, I don't get on someone's case for doing something differently from me, so why do they feel they can do it?

Long story short I had a very slow to come in and very small supply, didn't know about herbal remedies to help with that. Tried a few different pumps still got absolutly nothing. Ds wouldn't latch on,lc and a nurse told me my nipples might be too small for him to latch on to. He would scream his head off and arch away, he was starving and he just couldn't get it. Hospital said he had to have a bottle before being discharged since he had lost weight and didn't really feed from the breast. I kept trying after we got home but that bottle did us in I think. Not to mention I wouldn't have had enought for him anyway so I gave up. With the girls I again had little to nothing for supply, my nipples hadn't changed any so the latch issue was still there and I had zero support this time around, dh knew the hell I went through emotionally after not being able to nurse Alex and he said he didn't want to see me go through that again so he just didn't want to know about it, none of his family were breastfeeders so he doesn't understand.
I basically was alone in this and my kids ended up bottle fed. I am okay with that decision, I tried my best, the important thing is that they eat kwim? My kids are healthy, happy and loved and that is all that matters to me. I always held them for bottle feedings , never propped their bottles or left them alone with one in bed or anything. I hold and cuddle them for their feedings.
 

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Discussion Starter · #71 ·
Welcome, Jackie!

Quote:
Originally posted by Larklinnet Do you have health or dental concerns?
Yes. I"m worried mostly about speech development, as I have a friend whose dd had a pacifier until age 3 or 4 and has speech problems that my friends feels are related to the binky. That's why I think that having it his mouth all day long would be a problem vs. only having it at certain times. The same goes for potential dental problems. It seems to me that it would be the amount of time it was in the mouth that would be the determining factor in speech/orthodontic problems.

It's interesting that the bottle was a worry for you because that hasn't been a big one for me at all. Ds still takes a bottle and I haven't been planning on doing anything with that until at least age two or older. For a long time he's only had two bottles a day (and we've fed on demand), but the last few weeks he's been wanting a bottle much more, so I have gotten a little bit nervous, but nothing like with the binky. Maybe because the bottle represents food while the binky represents comfort. I can accept that I can't provide his food, but it's harder to accept that I can't provide his comfort. (Through nursing--of course there is much, much comfort in other ways!)

You mentioned adoption and while I didn't really think of it before, it makes sense that there would be some insecurity deep within me that would add to this worry. But the more I think about it, I'm not sure it's adoption that's made me anxious about this as much as it's attachment parenting. AP is what make me worry about challenging ds's security and comfort. Adoption is what makes it so I can't meet all of those things in the "accepted" way (bf'ing), so I guess it would be a combination of adoption and attachment parenting.

Thanks for responding to my inner babbling! I worry about the strangest stuff sometimes!
 

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hi just thought i would say something . My oldest was a ff baby. I tried to bf him for 3 months, he would not latch. I had soo much milk. I pumped and put it in bottles. Then around 2 months my supply started to drop[no sucking] I started to give ff and then at 3 months all I could pump was really thin looking stuff that he would refuse to eat[weaning milk?] Anyway, allmost right away my son changed in to a different baby. He wasn't happy, he wouldn't sleep, he started to spit up after every feed. He was constipated... then he had the runs. It was horrable.
I was only 18 and to this day have never forgiven myself for not trying harder. My son was allergic to milk based formula so he was on soya. That stuff stinks!!!!!
He is 10 almost, and I still have a closer bond to my two bf children. I know that ff moms love their children. I love my son but, I didn't relize the bond could be closer.
I have looked at ff moms and i usally think 'what went wrong ' but i know 1st hand how hard it can be. I suffered many years of depresion cause he wouldn't bf. I wish I could let it go but, ff moms say" my baby is healthy", well my son was sick , sick . and I feel like I did that to him. He had exzema and skin rashes. It was awful.
any way

i am glad you can let it go

will i ever?
 

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Discussion Starter · #74 ·
Corysmilk-

Welcome! My ds had problems (colic, etc) that I know were related to formula. I did feel bad, but it also helped me to realize that there was truly nothing I could do about it. In my situation with not having been pg, I could not change my body. I"m not sure what you could have done different. 3 months trying to get a baby to latch is a long time--that's hardly "not trying hard enough"--and then the pumping on top of that.

Have you tried writing out your feelings, writing out the entire nursing story in detail as much as you can remember? That really helped me a lot, especially with differentiating what I could have controlled and what I could not have controlled.

As far as the bonding, I have felt like we do enough AP stuff that there is very little difference, but of course I won't know for sure until I get to bf another child. I don't know if you knew about or practiced AP at that time.

To help myself cope, I've reminded myself that surely nature wouldn't doom a mother and child to a lesser relationship over this, and I did everything in my power to compensate. I hope this doesn't sound like I am underestimating the power and importance of bf'ing, because I am not. I am determined to bf the next one--it's one of my foremost goals! But I just cannot accept that there is only one really good bonding tool and if you don't use it, you're doomed.

Forgive me if I'm totally off-base here. I hope you find healing! I recommend the journaling highly!

Also, I'll bet that most of us here haven't truly let go. I've come to a point of acceptance and comfort, but it still causes me quite a bit of sadness at times.
 

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thank you for your kind words
I have been righting down some feelings in a journal and it has helped. i also want to bring it up with my therapist next time. I wonder if it wasn't the bfing at all that made me feel that way towards him. i was very young and i had bad ppd. i look back and relized. i did love him, sooo much he was my whole world i changed my life around for him. I did every thing to make sure he was heathy. i held him when he was up at night with ear infections i helped him learn to walk i watched him run off to play with his friends that first day of preschool. he truly is, my son!

i was young. i didn't know what i was doing. And I was learning,
learning to be a parent, now with #3 i am so much better, of course.
i tell ds #1 that he taught me how to be a mommy

he loves to hear it
any way thank you
this has been very good for me,
bfing....... ffing.... we all love our baby's
 

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hi all~
I am so sorry I haven't been able to read thru all the posts to get to know you better, & don't have time to post my own story either. I sure belong in this tribe tho!
I do want to ask a question about different kinds of formula & see if anyone can help me out:
Griffin is taking from 18-24oz formula per day & breast feeding often, incl all nite on demand. We have been giving Similac Advance since he was 1 mo old, but now I am thinking about switching to an organic formula. Since he has started solids I have been picky about Organics only, so started to worry more about the formula, what's in it, esp GMOs etc. For so long I have just put that out of my mind while struggling... etc.

DH is afraid it might make DS sick to switch formulas & he is doing fine with the similac, any insight? I have been getting wound up tight about it all again after feeling more at peace a month ago. Sigh.

thanks a million, Maria
 

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I'm excited to see this thread too! I am still grieving not being able to exclusively breastfeed. My DS was born with a severe congenital heart defect and spent 3 weeks in NICU, 2 surgeries at 2 weeks and 3 months. I pumped my brains out, took all the herbs and domperidone, and never got more than about 12 ounces a day at my maximum. He did his part--finally learned to BF but always had to be supplemented with formula. Now at 13 months he gets maybe drops of bm a day, though he clings to my empty breasts like it's the end of the world. It makes me feel so awful that my body failed him. Every can of formula made me sick inside. I cried every time I pumped for months. I hate hate hate every bottle, washing them, traveling with all that crap. It just tears me up inside.

But I agree, there is noone to answer my questions about eating habits. No one continues to BF and supplement past a couple of months, they always go to FF only. He drinks bottles like a breastfed baby--a little at a time, not full 8oz bottles like most FFed babies. So it's impossible to find answers to my questions on mainstream boards, and on crunchy boards no one knows what I'm talking about.

But you know, I've never gotten negative comments. If I did, they would get an earful--walk in my shoes and then tell me what I did wrong. It makes me angry to think about it.

And we have also used donated milk--from someone I met on an internet board who lived nearby. The milk was free, and the mom had more than enough. This is a viable alternative to milk banks if you don't qualify, and many moms are dying to donate and can't because they take meds (like antidepressants which are totally safe but milk banks won't accept). BF support boards are great places to hook up to find donors.
 

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Maria, to answer your question, I'd stay away from that DHA/ARA crap like the plague. It won't make him sick to switch if you do it slowly. Start mixing 1 part new to 3 parts similac, go a few days, increase to 1:1, then 3:1, then all new. The transition should take at least a week and watch for signs he isn't tolerating the new--runny smelly poop, rash, tummy upset. But if you're switching dairy to dairy it won't be a big deal. It's when you switch dairy to soy or vice versa that problems happen. (and stay away from soy--there are studies it's bad for their development because of the estrogens in it)\

HTH
Steph
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by PuppyFluffer
I have a question. Will a baby do any comfort nursing at the breast even if they don't get any milk or very little milk? For moms who have supply issues and have to supplement, do you still nurse for fixing booboos and such. I'm just wondering if the baby will even latch if they don't get much?
In our case, yes yes yes! I am the human pacifier. He latches still about 15x a day and still comfort nurses all night long. Sometimes that's the only way he'll take a bottle--latch on then I delatch him and stick the bottle in. He goes back and forth a lot.

In the beginning it was really frustrating though--we'd alternate bottle and breast feeding sessions because if he got the boob first he'd never take a bottle, and if bottle first then never latch on. So he ate about every hour. And I pumped. Geez, all I did was feed him!! He really LOVES to BF though. His eyes still roll back in his head when he latches on. I am grateful for that at least


On the solids question, I have a unique experience because DS has oral aversion due to surgeries. He didn't eat any pureed foods until 11 months and still eats practically nothing, although he is starting to taste some table foods now at 13 months. I often worry about vitamins and such but my ped assures me that the regular infant formula does have everything he needs. He just needs a LOT of it now. He drinks a small can every 2 days. But 6oz is the most he'll drink at a time, and it's usually more like 4oz. So he still gets about 7-8 bottles a day, plus one in the middle of the night. I don't have enough milk anymore to even quench his thirst at night. That is what really stinks! I hate going out to make a bottle in the night.
 

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thanks Steph,
why is this dha/ara crap? I thought it was good, like the essential fatty acids bm has? Is it the way it's made? The Baby's Only organic brand @ Organicbebe.com has it in also & they also have a supplement of it.
What kind of formula do you use?
 
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