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Discussion Starter #1
my 8 mo ds is scheduled to have surgery for an undescended testicle in a few weeks. the surgery has been scheduled for a few months, and I was hoping to avoid it if the testicle came down on its own, but it hasn't so..<br><br>
What do i need to know? Where can I find an Intact Care agreement? I'm guessing they'll want to cath him, since they can't really leave a diaper on hime (although, really, if he hasn't nursed for 3-4 hours, how much peeing will he really be doing??). Is cath neccessary? If so, how should it be done on an intact penis?<br><br>
Are there other things I should be thinking about ahead of time? Thanks<br><br>
Elsa
 

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nak...<br><br>
I don't have the answers to your questions, but hope someone will shortly.<br><br>
I just want to offer good wishes for the surgery and suggest that perhaps you write "NO CIRCUMCISION" on his clothes and belly. Also, even if you don't do that, PLEASE beat into your surgeon's brain that he is absolutely to be left intact. This would really make me worried and I would want to have leave nothing to chance or a doc's sudden whims.<br><br>
Hugs!
 

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First of all, make sure he actually has undescended testicle. Be sure to have him checked more than once before the surgery. The reason I am saying this is because there is a cavity just above and to each side of the penis that the testicle can retreat into especially when that area is cold. I would even check for myself a few times. You simply put your finger on each side and just above the penis on the pubic mound and gently press down and slide the fingers toward the scrotum. Do this several times. If the testicle is descended but retreated into this cavity, that should move it down into the scrotum and you should be able to feel it inside the scrotum.<br><br>
We have had another case of undescended testicle before and the doctor diagnosed it as undescended testicle yet when the baby was taken back, voila! There was the testicle. After that, the testicle retreated back into the subrapubic cavity and the mother was very worried that it had "undescended" again. She did this little exercise and voila! There it was again. After that, we had several mothers testify that this had happened with their son and they had no idea what it was and there are many men who don't know about this. The woman's doctor didn't even know about this!<br><br>
While it may actually be a case of undescended testicle, this is a quick and easy way to confirm or disprove. More than anything, I would like to avoid an avoidable and unnecessary surgery for your son.<br><br>
Should the surgery be necessary, request a supply of external male catheters. This is something like a condom with a tube runing out the tip. There is nothing that goes inside the body and will avoid a lot of pain and trauma to the urethra. It is simply slipped over the penis and taped in place and all of the urine goes into the bag like an internal catheter would. As a matter of fact, these catheters are sold on the internet and it would probably be a good idea to order some just in case someone forgets or doesn't do their job. You can take them to the hospital with you and give them to the doctor. That would avoid a lot of possibilities of "Oops!"<br><br><br><br><br>
Frank
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks Frank!<br><br>
I do think it is really undescended, as I've *never* seen it down, and we do check fairly often by feeling, but I'll definitely try your suggestion, as I'd love to avoid surgery!.<br><br>
Hmm, i had to get a urine sample from ds 1 when he was about 18 mos, and they did a sticky bag thing, sounds like the same thing you're talking about. seems like it might kind of be in the way during the surgery. I'm not wanting him cath'd, I'm just thinking out loud about possible excuses I might get from the hosp..<br><br>
They do have a pre-op visit program that you can do anytime in the weeks prior to surgery, and I'm planning to go there, armed with questions and information...<br><br>
Anyone know where there is an Intact Care Agreement I can print off. Or should I jsut make on up? What should it say? DON'T TOUCH HIS FORESKIN. AT ALL! that would pretty much cover it, eh? <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/eyesroll.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="roll"><br><br>
past_VNE, yep, that is probably my #1 fear, even bigger than the anethesia. I was reading the other thread about the boy getting tubes and wishing I could just put my son in a taped on diaper with a big sign: do not open!.
 

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Here's a link to an intact care agreement: <a href="http://www.circumcisionquotes.com/care.html" target="_blank">http://www.circumcisionquotes.com/care.html</a><br><br>
and the external male catheters are different from the urine bag (we've used those before too <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"> )<br><br>
Here's a link to some: <a href="http://www.edlpmed.com/urological-extcathet.html" target="_blank">http://www.edlpmed.com/urological-extcathet.html</a><br><br>
one more: <a href="http://secure.srginc.biz/product.php?brand=sa&code=UD7303" target="_blank">http://secure.srginc.biz/product.php...sa&code=UD7303</a><br><br>
and this one too <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"><br><a href="http://www.allegromedical.com/home/subcategory.asp?S=3745&C=539" target="_blank">http://www.allegromedical.com/home/s...p?S=3745&C=539</a>
 

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I'm sure you haven't made the choice for surgery lightly, so please don't take this as a criticism. My brother had an undescended testicle so I know a bit about it, and just did a bit of superficial internet research by googling "undescended testicle." From what I read, it seems like 8 mo is very early to do surgery; one article said that by 9 months, 65% of boys testicles descended if they hadn't previously, and most recommend surgery if it hasn't descended by a year.<br><br>
It might be worth getting a second opinion about waiting, if you haven't done so already.<br><br>
Good luck if you with the surgery next week. I can imagine that is incredibly stressful.<br><br>
Kristi
 

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I agree with having a second opinion. My best friend's 6 month old (intact!) also has an undescended testicle and surgery is not even being discussed until 12 months. These next 4 months can be a long time for a little developing body.<br><br>
Good luck with the surgery. I think that as long as the surgeon is clear about your wishes there will not be any trouble.
 

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Ugh! I'm not trying to freak you out more, really I'm not, but I just wanted to affer a word of caution. My neighbours son had surgery for an undescended testicle just before his third birthday. While he was under, the urologist "did them a favour" and broke the "adhesions" that he had and stretched and retracted his foreskin. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/angry.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="angry"> He was previously non-retractile and the doc said that he could just "tell" that he would have problems as he got older. They were then instructed to retract him daily and put numbing cream on the glans. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/angry.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="angry"><br><br>
Anyway, I am just telling you this so maybe somewhere in the forms you sign, or during a consultation beforehand you could make it perfectly clear that retraction of his foreskin is grounds for legal action.(that's all some docs hear unfortunately)<br><br>
Good luck to you both!<br>
Take care,<br>
Tara
 

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Hi gus'smom:<br><br>
This is my first post here, but I have been lurking for a while.<br><br>
I couldn't help but reply to your dilemma in hopes of saving your son from surgery.<br><br>
I have a friend who I met through LLL meetings (she is now a leader, btw) Her son was two years old with an undecended testicle. She took him to a ped urologist in Milwaukee who recommended surgery. Not to mention, volunteered to do a circumcision while he was under, wasn't that nice of him? <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/angry.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="angry"><br><br>
I strongly advised her to call Dr. VanHowe at Marshfield Clinic in Wisconsin (who is now in Marquette, MI, an hour from my home. Google him, he has done quite a bit of research on circumcision and is pro intact) for his opinion. I knew from personal experience that he would call her back with his opinion. He recommended to her before surg. to try hormone treatment, here is a link to what I am talking about-<br><br><a href="http://familydoctor.org/637.xml" target="_blank">http://familydoctor.org/637.xml</a><br><br>
This totally worked for her son and there was no surgery needed. Within a couple weeks the testicle decended and remained in the scrotum. Amazingly, a pediatric urologic surgeon didn't inform her that there was an alternative to surgery??<br><br>
Why put a child through the risk of general anesthesia if it is not needed?<br><br>
HTH,<br>
Pam
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>paminmi</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Amazingly, a pediatric urologic surgeon didn't inform her that there was an alternative to surgery??</div>
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<br>
"a pediatric urologic <span style="text-decoration:underline;">surgeon.</span>" There is the answer. Often the first answer for a surgeon is going to be . . . surgery. How else is he going to make a living?<br><br>
I know that this is unthinkable but think about this . . . 60% of all hysterectomies are unnecessary and contra-indicated. Abuse of this surgery is so common it is known as "The doctor's welfare procedure." That is, for the welfare of the doctor instead of the patient. Hysterectomy is major surgery while surgery for undescended testicle is relatively minor surgery. Surely, if major surgical procedures are abused, minor ones are often abused as well. Certainly, circumcision is considered one of the most minor procedures of all and is the most abused of all. There doesn't even have to be a reason to do it. The patient doesn't even have to ask for it in the vast majority of cases. The doctor or nurses will be certain to solicit the patient for the procedure.<br><br><br><br><br>
Frank<br><br><br><br>
Frank
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Frankly Speaking</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">"a pediatric urologic <span style="text-decoration:underline;">surgeon.</span>" There is the answer. Often the first answer for a surgeon is going to be . . . surgery. How else is he going to make a living?<br><br>
I know that this is unthinkable but think about this . . . <b>60% of all hysterectomies are unnecessary and contra-indicated. Abuse of this surgery is so common it is known as "The doctor's welfare procedure."</b> That is, for the welfare of the doctor instead of the patient. Hysterectomy is major surgery while surgery for undescended testicle is relatively minor surgery. Surely, if major surgical procedures are abused, minor ones are often abused as well. Certainly, circumcision is considered one of the most minor procedures of all and is the most abused of all. There doesn't even have to be a reason to do it. The patient doesn't even have to ask for it in the vast majority of cases. The doctor or nurses will be certain to solicit the patient for the procedure.<br><br>
Frank</div>
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Yes Frank, I totally agree with you regarding this. In my head I had a sarcastic tone as I was writing the sentence you quoted but it didn't show very well when I typed it out.<br><br>
A bit OT but I have been victimized myself by my previous gynecologist who wanted to put me through procedures prior to recommending hysterectomy for uterine fibroids. At that time I was 38 years old.<br><br>
Fortunately, I know how physicians can be so I started researching my options. I didn't need the general anesthesia for him to go "see what's going on in there" nor did I need any of the procedures he recommended. And I absolutely did not need the hysterectomy that he wanted me to have.<br><br>
Speaking of contraindications, the knowledgeable gyn that I finally found at the hysterectomy alternatives clinic at U of MICH stated that my fibroids were actually holding everything up there (a bit of TMI but I have pelvic relaxation which is pretty normal with multiple childbirth, not to mention laying on your back pushing out a 9 1/2 pound baby) There are several other therapies, non-surgical and surgical that will treat fibroids that preserve the uterus.<br><br>
Another example of how surgeons are trained to cut and knowledge is a wonderful and powerful thing.<br><br>
If anyone would like any information regarding fibroids, please feel free to PM or email me and I will be glad to share.<br><br>
Pam
 

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What Frank described in post #3 is known as a retractile testicle. At about the age of 12 I changed schools, and all of us new kids got lined up for a physical. I was told to report back a week later to go to another Dr. He turned out to be a urologist, who was going to examine my "undescended testicle". Of course when he looked, it was down, and I was just sent back to school. The report stated that my " testicle had been milked down into my scrotam"> What a load of B.S. They moved up and down all the time !!! Anyway, my point is that a lot of doctors aren't all that well educated on these things, and if the school Dr had tried what Frank suggested, I would have been saved an awful lot of embarrassment. Even if he had said something to me !!
 

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Discussion Starter #15
hi. thanks for asking about us <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"><br><br>
The surgery is next thursday. His testicle definitely is not retractable, I remember watching the dr palpate it at the exam, and it is up by his pelvic bone. As best as I can tell, it hasn't moved since then (december), so we're going ahead with the surgery.<br><br>
the hormonal route looks interesting, but it says that it is most effective for those w/ the testicle near the scrotum, which doesn't seem to be the case for us.<br><br>
I'll let you know how it goes next week
 

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Good luck to you.<br><br>
My DS (now 3) had this surgery when he was 14 months old. We had no real problems. He was never cathed, just had a sterile pad under him. DS was a little grumpy right before because he was hungry but the waiting room had toys so he was pretty well distracted. The doctor never even suggested circing him during our consultations, but I did write no circ on the consent when I signed it and made it clear to the doctor right before surgery we didn't want a circ just in case- he said he never recommends them without medical reason. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/love.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="love"><br><br>
After surgery DS woke up crying and he was handed to me with everybody trying to talk to me at once in the recovery room. Doctor trying to give report of the surgery, anesthesiologist trying to remind me of precautions, 2 nurses hovering offering to make him a bottle and several other patients watching the commotion. Good thing I'm not more shy about whipping out a breast to nurse.<br><br>
DS was under general for the procedure but then got a block so he wouldn't be in pain when he woke up. He was a little frustrated when we got home that he couldn't move his legs to walk for a few hours (numb from the block so in no pain) He was sore later that night and didn't want to walk.<br><br>
His undescended testicle was not completely formed so it was removed during surgery rather then bringing it down. He was almost back to normal by the next day.<br><br>
Kaye
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>gus'smama</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">hi. thanks for asking about us <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"><br><br>
The surgery is next thursday.</div>
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Just bumping this wondering how it went. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">
 

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Hi. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"><br><br>
Thanks for thinking of us. The surgery went okay. In the end he didn't have to be cath'd at all (I guess they figure that a baby who hasn't had anything to eat or drink for 4 hrs is not gonna need to pee, yk?).<br><br>
He was pretty unhappy yesterday afternoon as the anesthesia wore off, but he was much more himself today.<br><br>
I'm paranoid about post-op infection, esp w/ the incisions being in his diaper area, but it seems okay (but swollen) so far.<br><br>
Thanks again for asking about us, I'm touched <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/shy.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="innocent">
 

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OH yeah- I didn't think about that- diapers and incisions area! Glad its going well. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/hug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hug">
 

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Gus'smama: Thanks so much for sharing your story & everyone for all the info. Our 4 month old just had a visit to the Urologist today for an undescended testicle. He wants us to wait til DS is one year.<br>
Thanks again for sharing. Hope he's feeling better soon.
 
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