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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
"Just Surrender:" There seems to be a lot of this advice going around lately and it's something I've been struggling intensely with since my last m/c (almost 2 months ago.)<br><br>
I've always been of the train of thought that "surrendering" seems like "giving up." So, in light of this -- I've given up charting, temping, checking cm and inspecting tp. But I must admit that my secret hope is that by giving all this up, conceiving will happen naturally on it's own (but it BETTER not take too long!)<br><br>
I think I've "given up" some ttc activities, but I definitely haven't surrendered to the unknown. How DO you DO that? And really -- what's the difference?<br><br>
I've always believed that we created our own reality -- and that belief has gotten me happily through my life. But how do you create your own reality and surrender at the same time??? Is it just a bunch of hooey???<br><br>
I admit I'm in my head WAY too much. I'm very introspective and analytical about every single thing -- I don't think this is such a good thing.<br><br>
Anyway, I thought I'd sound off here (rather than pay a psychiatrist!) and see what you ladies think.<br><br>
Here are my questions:<br>
1. Do you think surrendering and giving up are two different things?<br>
2. How DO you surrender?<br>
3. Is surrendering all a bunch of hooey?<br>
4. Any words of wisdom you'd like to share?<br><br>
Thanks for taking the time to read this...
 

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Kate, I'm really stoked you started this thread ( my friend Heather will be proud she spurrned this conversation!! ) I'd love to reply, but I've got to go help a laboring friend! I'll spend some time thinking of it as I rub her back and help her breathe. Maybe I'll learn something about surrender there!!
 

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Hmmm... my first thoughts are... yes, we do create our own reality. But manifestation in the physical plane takes much longer than manifestation in the emotional/spiritual plane. If you create a thought, or vision, and hold onto that vision long enough, and nurture it, it will happen. Maybe not as <b>fast</b> as you would like, but it will happen! And, to me, that is where the surrender comes in. To me, surrender is not waiting for the expected outcome, even while holding the vision and doing the things that are necessary to make the vision reality in the physical plane. Sorta like waiting for the water to boil. You could stand over the pot, willing it to boil, and get frustrated when it doesn't boil instantaneously. Or you could simply <b>know</b> that it will boil, do the things you need to do to make it happen (like put the pot on the hot stove), go do something else, and before you know it, the water is boiling.<br><br>
Maybe that didn't answer your questions, but that is what came to mind!<br><br>
Good questions!<br><br><i>gotta go POAS now, and see if it is positive yet!!!</i> ... <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/eyesroll.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="roll">
 

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I personally do not see this in terms of "surrender" b/c to me that seems like a cop-out. But it may be semantics...<br><br>
I personally subscribe to the mindfulness theory of life. I am mindful of what is happening -- what I am feeling/ doing/ being. If I am feeling upset, I let myself feel upset. If I am feeling happy, I let myself feel happy.<br><br>
The reason why this seems like a good alternative to "surrendering" to me is that I am fully aware of my thoughts and I am not trying to cover them up by saying "It's up to someone else, I'm not dealing with this anymore." In my belief system, that isn't what the goal is.<br><br>
My goal, during this <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/censored.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="censored"> process is to not lose my mind and become bitter and upset and freaked out *all* the time. I can honestly say I don't think there's anyway that I could not be upset, bitter, and freaked out *some* of the time, though. I just don't want this to ruin my entire life...<br><br>
Did that even touch this topic? I don't know!
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>KateSt.</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">...I've always believed that we created our own reality -- and that belief has gotten me happily through my life. But how do you create your own reality and surrender at the same time??? Is it just a bunch of hooey???...</div>
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Do you believe you create only the happy stuff? Or the pain too? Because I don't believe I've created my infertility. It happened to me. It's not fair. I don't think war victims create that reality. It happens to them. It's not fair. (I'm not comparing my infertility with being the innocent victim of a war, it's just what came to mind)<br><br>
I think <b>a lot</b> life is out of our control. I believe that more firmly the older I get. But the choice comes in how we react to it. For a long time I was very bitter and angry about my infertility. I'm slowly, slowly, slowly moving to a place of letting that go. But it's a process.
 

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I don't believe we create our reality all the time. Sometimes (by our choices) we do, but a lot of <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/censored.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="censored"> happens without us causing it, imo.<br><br>
Our choices determine what we make of our life, given our circumstances. For me, choosing to feel exactly what I'm feeling and not deny it means that I can feel it and let it go. I guess that is why it feels somewhat akin to "surrendering" to me.... b/c I can feel the pain of the moment and then let it go when I am done feeling it.<br><br>
This has worked for the traumas in my life.... when I was held hostage at work, for example. I felt afraid, very afraid. And I felt angry at my workplace for not giving us more safety (I worked in a grocery store). And it took me awhile to process all that and move on, but I did eventually. Which is not to say it doesn't define me, b/c in a lot of ways it does. But, I am not held hostage anymore by that fear or anger. (I've had other traumas, and they have similarly been dealt with this way.)
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Wow -- thank you ladies SO much for these responses. It's really given me a lot to think about.<br><br>
Patti -- your post really spoke to me. (Have you, by any chance, read the "Seth Material?") After reading your post I realized that the things I've envisioned happening in my life HAVE happened, but not right away (as you said) and not in the time frame I wish they would. I'll hold onto that...<br><br>
Alexis -- Thank you for your feedback too. Makes A LOT of sense. (I can't believe you were held hostage! yikes!)<br><br>
Pugmadmama -- I WISH we only created the happy stuff. If that were true I probably wouldn't be struggling with this so much right now. I had a conversation with someone one week after my last m/c who also believes that we "create our own reality" and that because of that there was probably something I was doing or thinking subconsciously that may have "allowed my m/c to happen." That thought scared the SH*T out of me because I felt I was doing everything "right."<br><br>
I think maybe we're all right -- we create our own realites (or at least our reactions!) and sometimes sh*t happens!
 

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I had to think of Eli Weisel(sp?) when I think of what is caused by us and what is our responsibility(for a lack of a better word)....he was a survivor of the haulicost(spelling is not my bag obviously and I am too lazy to look things up today..). His message was similar to the idea that he could be held prisoner but they could not break his spirit or take away his faith..........in his case reality was forced upon him but only given a physical impact....his mind was still his own and all its reactions were HIS.... He is a great person to look to for some inspiration IMHO.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
LeShea -- I think I know the book you're speaking of -- is it "Man's Search for Meaning" by Victor Frankl??? You're right, it is very inspirational...thanks.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>KateSt.</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">...Pugmadmama -- I WISH we only created the happy stuff. If that were true I probably wouldn't be struggling with this so much right now. I had a conversation with someone one week after my last m/c who also believes that we "create our own reality" and that because of that there was probably something I was doing or thinking subconsciously that may have "allowed my m/c to happen." That thought scared the SH*T out of me because I felt I was doing everything "right."...</div>
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Thank you for explaining the concept further.<br><br>
Personally, I would have had a hard time not slapping that "friend". Really, really hard. Plus, it just doesn't make sense to me. Did the Rwanda genocide victims "create that reality"? All 800,000 of them? Or, as someone else mentioned, the Holocaust?<br><br>
I simply do not believe I have that much control over my life. I don't think anyone does. My only place of control is over my reactions. Which is scary. I'd love to believe I can "create my reality" but I've seen way too much in the world that is grossly unfair to believe that.
 

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I'm really struggling with this concept of "surrender" right now. I don't think it's the same as giving up. In fact in some ways, I think it's easier to give up. When we decided to adopt, it was relatively easy to "give up" ttc. (I kind of hate that word because it wasn't like we were giving up with no hope left, we were just moving on to what felt right, and what was right, for our family.) I threw all my charts away. I actually wanted to have a little ceremony and burn them. We completely stopped "trying" and put all our focus into adoption. It was the most wonderful, freeing feeling.<br><br>
Well now, we are ttc again. We know it is the right thing to do at this time, and I feel like I need to travel the road to the end this time, for healing and closure (as well as for possible pg!). I"m working with a naturopath, so charting is part of the game, and so is remembering to take herbs/supplements 6-7 times a day. It has only been two months and I find I am already having such a hard time staying sane and not becoming totally obsessed. I want to be able to surrender emotionally, and to be at peace with whatever outcome there is, but it is so HARD when there are so many daily reminders of the ways you are trying to control the process. KWIM? I really think the hardest thing is to keep on with whatever treatment you're doing and still try to be in that place of calm acceptance. It is so hard when it's not either/or, but both at once.<br><br>
I loved what someone said about mindfulness. I have a hard time accepting the difficult emotions. It's partly because I know where they can lead and how bad they can get and I am SO afraid of being in that place again. I find I strive for just as much control over my emotions as I do over getting pg, and I need to learn to allow myself feelings again and trust that it doesn't mean I'm destined to depression.<br><br>
I just have to take "surrender" on a daily basis. For me, the good in surrendering is more for my own emotional growth/peace during the process--I am not entirely sure how much impact it actually has on getting pg or not.
 

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Laurel --<br><br>
for me, depression happens when I'm not owning my own emotional state. You know, when I try to pretend everything's OK, and I eat my anger and it gets turned inward... And then I find I just don't have the energy to think about it anymore, and I feel numb instead.<br><br>
And yeah, Kate, I can understand that it is shocking that I was held hostage. It was a big deal at the time (small town community, natural foods co-op grocery store. the police weren't really equipped to deal with 6 employees being taken hostage in a botched robbery. The gunmen used us as human sheilds and crossed over a railroad track while we were in front of them and jumped a fence and got away... the police later said they caught one of them, but none of the 6 of us ever identified him. He was convicted on police testimony alone.)
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>alexisyael</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Laurel --<br><br>
for me, depression happens when I'm not owning my own emotional state. You know, when I try to pretend everything's OK, and I eat my anger and it gets turned inward...</div>
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Yeah, depression wasn't really the word I was looking for. I know exactly what you're talking about and have been there too. Sometimes though when I indulge the painful, miserable feelings it has snowballed and spiralled and there have been a few too many days spent sobbing on the couch. It's different from the anger depression.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Laurel</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Yeah, depression wasn't really the word I was looking for. I know exactly what you're talking about and have been there too. Sometimes though when I indulge the painful, miserable feelings it has snowballed and spiralled and there have been a few too many days spent sobbing on the couch. It's different from the anger depression.</div>
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I'd call this one melencholy (sp?) A state which I know all too well, unfortunately. Pretty much for that I need to let myself feel sad and then do something active with my feelings -- sing along to sad music, dance, do yoga. Activity seems to prevent slipping into days spent crying on the sofa -- though I do think it is good to give myself some time for crying on the sofa, cause sometimes you just have to get it out!<br><br>
This is a good thread. I am really loving the responses, and engaging in discussing this is healthy, imo. Kate, you are as always the wisest of us!
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>pugmadmama</strong></div>
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Personally, I would have had a hard time not slapping that "friend". Really, really hard.</div>
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:LOL <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/eyesroll.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="roll"> Yeah, maybe you're right pugmadmama!!<br><br>
Laurel and Alexis -- great posts. This is so thought-provoking!!! I can relate to so much that's being said and I do feel like I'm learning. This IS better than a psychiatrist!!<br><br>
Alexis...your words brought tears to my eyes...(I'm a softy.) Thank you! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/love.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="love"><br><br>
I hope others feel free to participate!!!
 

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Actually, I forgot to mention, but I was with pugmadmama about that "friend" -- oy! You really learn a lot about how people process hard stuff happening when you go through TTC for awhile -- some of my friends just say the ubiquitous, "Oh it will happen when you least expect it" (huh? How's that gonna happen???) and then others are kind and generous, and even if they sometimes stick their feet in their mouths, they apologize. And most of all, their reaction just reflects their character...<br><br>
Anyway, I'm in a melencholy philosophical state of mind tonight... an on-line friend asked whether I was pregnant in an email (she's been out of touch for awhile) and said something to the effect of, "normally I wouldn't ask, but you have such a good attitude towards life' which is true, but sh*t I wish I didn't have to be that person, you know? The one that gets dumped on by the Universe and takes it and comes back for more... but I am, I guess.<br><br>
Another friend (more irritating) said to me recently, "Oh, that's funny, you don't seem almost 30. I'd have said you were early twenties..." and then instead of it being a compliment, she said, "Yeah, you don't seem like you've been through a lot yet...you haven't been through the wringer." Um, yeah. Well, I straightened her out some about that! Cause I don't know if I can count the traumas on one hand anymore... and they have made me who I am, but no, I try not to be bitter or upset. And I try not to take it personally.<br><br>
I guess that's at the heart of how I stay upbeat - I try not to take it personally. But it is difficult, and for some reason, tonight it does feel a little personal, ya know?<br><br>
And Kate, I'm glad my words touched you <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/love.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="love"> I'm sensitive, too and cry at the drop of a hat!
 

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Alexis, sounds like the life experiences you've had have indeed made you the person you are; which seems to be a very wise woman indeed. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/thumb.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="thumbs up"><br><br>
This is a wonderful thread.<br>
I practice buddhism which would say that we do all create our reality in terms of how we relate to events with our minds. One person can be traumatised and turn it into rage and revenge; another may turn it into positive energy and action. I think of all the Tibetan Buddhist nuns who've been imprisoned by the Chinese and raped and tortured and they practice loving kindness toward their torturers. Wow.<br><br>
I've learned through two m/c's that I cannot control this process. Conception, pregnancy, birth...the whole thing is so huge I feel all I can do is set up the right circumstances and then try and keep a mindful (as you said Alexis) attitude toward it all. Even about the losses, which were just as important in my life as my son's birth. All life changing events in their own way.<br><br>
But as I said in a thread I started, I just had a major falling out with a friend who said (after telling me she was pg and I told her it's hard for me to hear because of the m/c), "A baby will come when it's the right time". On the one hand I guess I believe that, you know it was just the shittiest thing to hear at that moment. She could justify her comment in all sorts of well meaning ways but it still hurt like hell, because I truly don't think she got what I was saying at all. I've stopped talking to everyone but my closest friend and Dh about TTC.<br><br>
Thank maude for these boards <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/love.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="love">
 

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Muse, I'm a philosophical buddhist at heart <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/orngbiggrin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="orange big grin"> Which is to say, I read a lot of Buddhist books, practice mindfullness and meditation (and yoga) and yet don't consider myself religiously Buddhist...<br><br>
And thankyou <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/orngbiggrin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="orange big grin"> I do feel that I've learned a lot from all my life-experiences, too! I've never understood the desire to appear younger than one's age -- since to me, aging is a gift. Everyday I learn something new!<br><br>
Belly Blessings!
 

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Sorry that it has taken me so long to get back to this thread!<br><br>
Kate - No, I have not read the Seth Material, although it does sound familiar. It may be one of those books that I bought but never got around to reading!<br><br>
This is a good thread, and I have more thoughts... but I am not feeling very inspired to write anything that would benefit anybody right now. In fact, I'm in kind of a pissy mood! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/irked.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="irked">:<br><br>
Alexis, I can totally relate to your mindfulness. Whatever I feel, I feel fully. I just didn't know that that was what mindfullness was! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/wink1.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="wink1"><br><br>
So I'm gonna go feel really <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/irked.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="irked">: right now! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">
 

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I'm really enjoying reading all your thoughts... I'm hoping to recover from the birth I witnessed yesterday.. so that i can join in... for now, i'm so tired.. and I have relatives in town... actually going to see a movie with my BIL on my lunch break (troy... yummy brad pitt) .<br>
Anyway... I hope to join you in a day or so when I've had some sleep. Peace and blessings to you all.
 
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