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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all,

I am 11 weeks and we will be finding out the gender shortly. I personally do not practice circumcision for my male children but I have never brought up this subject to my dh. I do not know how he feels either way. He is circ'd but he is fairly open minded but then again I do not know if the male anatomy will be an area of discussion or if he has a set mindset. When I had my oldest ds, my ex was against circing, in addition I did research as I was on the fence about it. Ironically while in a college course there were a couple soon to be fathers and one flat out said circing was cruel, another circed his son, we were decent friends back then and his son ended up having complications and had to be air lifted to the nearest childrens hospital 1 hour a way. His son was about a month older than mine, so for all that drama, my ex and hearing a dad against I decided that circing was not okay for my kids.

Fast forward some years I was recently divorced, I started dating a jewish man and for whatever reason circing got brought up, we were discussing ear piercing, I said it was wrong to pierce a babies ears, and he was upset as his dd had ears pierced from birth. I think I mentioned that altering a baby in any way for unnecessary reasons was wrong and i brought up circusmision and he got extremely upset and threw my not vaccination stance in my face saying of course i wouldn't circ, since i didn't vax! etc. neeless to say that realtionship ended fast as my obvious semi crunchy ways were not cool with him. But it scared me to death to tell anyone else my thoughts about vaccinations and circing. I did tell dh about my thoughts on vaccinations well before we moved in together and we was supportive. I have not discuseed the circumcision issue because thus far it was irrelevant to our relationship.

I am needing a calm, soft approach on the subject. I have a tendency to become defensive when I am talking about something I am afraid the other person may not agree with out of fear. Any suggestions? I do not plan to discuss this for at least another 3 weeks and after we find out if the baby is a boy.

Thanks
 

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Have you ever watched the video "The Elephant in the Hospital" by Dr Ryan McAllister? It is accessible either at www.doctorsopposingcircumcision.org or on Youtube. I would suggest that you watch it when DH is out and see if you think it is worth sharing. It is extremely well done and the logic is inescapable. Then watch it together and ask him what he thought - that may give you a good idea of where his opinion lies and what aspects, if any, you need to work on with him. Unfortunately circumcision is one of those highly emotionally charged subjects and often men's ego completely over rides logic.
 

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I provided my husband factual information about circumcision, avoiding all of the propaganda and emotional sites. Pure facts and statistics, and let him educate himself about the real basis for the procedure and what the risks and benefits are. Men are generally less emotional than women, and if you start with the "in your face" emotional sites you'll likely quickly turn him off to your side of the discussion. If he is cut and has no problems physically, he's likely to be in the "my penis is fine, my son's penis will be fine too" camp. However, the simple fact is, he has no idea what "could have been" so that argument has no logical basis.

Most men have no idea of the actual facts behind the procedure, that it's 100% unnecessary except in the tiniest minority of cases.

It is factual that HIV rates are lower in circumcised men, however, they are also lower in men who practice safe sex so that's really a non-issue in my mind. You have to do a specific activity to get HIV, it's not like you catch it walking through the mall.

After I gave him all the reference material, and time to read and process, I asked him what he thought. He was still on the fence. That is when we started talking more about it, including my feelings about body integrity, as a survivor of childhood sexual abuse being in control of my own body is VERY important to me and I extend that to my child. Eventually, he changed his mind and is now very much anti-circ.

I also brought up the side of the discussion relating to girls. Removal of the foreskin is the basic equivalent of removal of all of the labial folds and/or hood of the clitoris. All of the exact same "pro-circ" arguments apply - easier to keep clean, lower rate of infections, lower rate of certain STDs. However, most people find the idea of cutting baby girls abhorrent... it's time we protect our boys the same way.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks for the suggetions everyone. I will keep you all posted how things go after we find out the gender.
 

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It must be tough to come to a mutual decision, especially if religion and other values need to be considered. Any news regarding you and your husband's decision?
 

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Be aware some men can be very irrational about this subject and will refuse to look at research since their reaction has nothing to do with facts but comes from emotion connected to their own circumcision. While you can try to show a man research and evidence and hope they listen you need to be prepared that he might not. Often they have to hold the child for reality to hit. At the end of the day you may need to protect your child by signing no. I do hope he comes around and is reasonable, but you can never tell before hand just how a circumcised man will react.

For you alone to read 'The Vulnerability of men" http://www.stopcirc.com/vincent/vulnerability_of_men.html
 

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Thank goodness we took the Bradley childbirth classes. Once my hubby heard from "the expert" that it was un-needed, he was all in. I was so proud of him because he had to face down his Jewish parents on this one. Our son is 20 and intact.
 

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I had an argument for all my DH's reasons, and I pointed out that circ'ing shortens, the penis, and who wants less penis? I sent him links to videos, and the sites from outside the US that were more unbiased but still medical. I rarely argue with him about things like this, so it was easy for him to see that I meant it.
 

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... It is factual that HIV rates are lower in circumcised men, ...

Actually, that's not correct. You're probably referring to some papers from Africa that showed a "60 % lowered risk" of getting HIV when genitally mutilated (aka circumcised). The "60 %" was a relative number that's misused, the factual difference in those papers was just 1,25 %. Quite a difference, uh? :wink: However, those papers are debunked long time ago as biased and methodically and statistically flawed. If they were scientifically legit they would not have ant relevance to the US anyway. Later studies shows no difference or a difference in favour of intacts. The Malawi disaster clearly shows the latter as mutilated med had a near doubled risk of getting HIV.


You had a otherwise great post though. :smile:
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
So, blood testing shows baby is a girl, wont need to have the talk just yet. This may be our last as,well.

Thanks for the info though!
 

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I talked to my DH about it despite our first being a girl. (I was pregnant with her at the time and he used that as an excuse not to talk about it.) I told him that we couldn't really say what the future would hold for us. Maybe one day we would have a son, and if that was to happen, I'd want him to remain just the way he was created.

It's up to you whether or not to bring it up and when. I just needed the peace of mind of knowing any possible future son(s) of ours would be protected by both of us, not just me. (I don't trust hospital staff.)

We ended up having a son and now another is on the way. Both will remain intact and DH was on board years before our first son was conceived. In fact, when I was pregnant with him, he was busy educating his male friends about it. :) I was so proud.
 

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It's up to you whether or not to bring it up and when. I just needed the peace of mind of knowing any possible future son(s) of ours would be protected by both of us, not just me. (I don't trust hospital staff.)
We were in the hospital for five days, and our son never left our sight. Not for one single second, and when we were asleep he was on my chest (want to piss off a nurse really fast? let her "catch" you doing that!) We had heard far too many stories about babies who were circumcised when they weren't supposed to be, and obviously there's no fixing that error. On the other hand, we would be very very wealthy people now... lol
 

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That must be so very stressful, being in hospital and being worried that someone might just take and circumcise your baby. I can't imagine. It's so different here no one even mentions it, it's assumed you are taking your whole baby home, just the same as if he was a girl. I had no qualms about them taking my son for a while to the nursery and being fussed over. After I had my cesarean I was in a lot of pain due to having a greatly reduced amount of morphine than normal since I react to it. It sent me on a trip after I had my daughter and I did not want that again so they used the lowest amount possible. Once that first day had passed recovery went so much more quickly that I tried to get them to let me out at the end of the second day, not that they would allow it, had to wait a third. Then we ended up back in due to jaundice and feeding problems. At no time did I have to worry about him being mistakenly circumcised or retracted. It's a terrible thing to have that hanging over you in the US.
 

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We were in the hospital for five days, and our son never left our sight. Not for one single second, and when we were asleep he was on my chest (want to piss off a nurse really fast? let her "catch" you doing that!) We had heard far too many stories about babies who were circumcised when they weren't supposed to be, and obviously there's no fixing that error. On the other hand, we would be very very wealthy people now... lol
Lol, I got a scolding for the same thing.

joandsarah77, it is very stressful. I hadn't really planned on having another child. Sadly, the most stressful part of it for me is dealing with the medical establishment. With my first boy, I almost lost it when the pediatrician attempted to retract him. Luckily, she didn't, but I had to put my hand on hers and threaten to call Doctors Opposing Circumcision and a lawyer if she persisted.

It's sad when you have to threaten a doctor to protect your child. The worst part of it was how confused she seemed, and she followed up in her defense by saying she had other "uncircumcised" patients. That haunted me. I didn't need to know she was doing that to other baby boys. I never took him back to her.
 

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buttercupmama, for Doctors like that I would go over to Saving Son's and send them a 'Don't retract pack' and hope they read it and get educated because I would be worried for other intact boys she sees.
 

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If dh has foreskin envy then he'll support the mutilation of his son. Foreskin envy is extremely common in people who are missing such an emotionally vital part of their body.
 

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If dh has foreskin envy then he'll support the mutilation of his son. Foreskin envy is extremely common in people who are missing such an emotionally vital part of their body.
Not sure about this, as men with foreskin envy have enough common sense and consciousness about circumcision to realize that amputating a boys foreskin is a bad idea and, by extension, less likely to subject their sons to it. It always seemed to me that those most likely to circumcise are those deep in denial, who refuse to acknowledge that any harm was done to them. Like you, I'm disappointed, angry, any negative emotion you like about being circumcised, and I do envy those men who are whole, but I've been participating on these boards for decades in an effort to educate and inform prospective parents that it is far better to leave their precious sons as nature made them.
 

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Not sure about this, as men with foreskin envy have enough common sense and consciousness about circumcision to realize that amputating a boys foreskin is a bad idea and, by extension, less likely to subject their sons to it. It always seemed to me that those most likely to circumcise are those deep in denial, who refuse to acknowledge that any harm was done to them. Like you, I'm disappointed, angry, any negative emotion you like about being circumcised, and I do envy those men who are whole, but I've been participating on these boards for decades in an effort to educate and inform prospective parents that it is far better to leave their precious sons as nature made them.
Ok, maybe it's a bad term but I don't what else to call it. "I don't have a foreskin so I don't want anyone else to have a foreskin."
 

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Ok, maybe it's a bad term but I don't what else to call it. "I don't have a foreskin so I don't want anyone else to have a foreskin."
Yes, it's a difficult mindset to describe. When my wife was pregnant, the first thing I said to the doctor was "If this is a boy, there is no way that he's going to be circumcised". Then there are the men who you are talking about who say "I want him to look like me", which is about as asinine a statement as one could conceive - what does he plan - that they'll sit on the couch together watching the game with their penises hanging out?

I never understood the desire those parents have to disadvantage their son.
 
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