[pumpkingirl71]

Hello again

For those of you who adotpted toddlers, can anyone give me some help in dealing with tantrums?

We met with an adoption behavior specialist the other day. She did sort of an intake and concluded that our daughter is attaching well, but my husband and I have the attachment problem because we are having such problems managing our daughter's behavior. I mostly agree with this. We spend a lot of time beating ourselves up because she is more attached than we are.

So she gave us some really strict directions about tantrums. They are to be 100% ignored and treated as negative behavior. For the most part, I agree with this. Dd does use tantrum to try to manipulate us. But at the same time, she also has tantrums when she *needs* something. I have no idea how to discern between the two types of tantrum. It just kills me to hear her screaming "Mama, Mama!" when she really might jsut need a hug.

We are pretty desperate at this point. Her behavior needs to change for us to start being a family. I don't like this approach, but I don't know anything better

We are meeting with someone to start working on rewarding positive behavior, but that is daunting too. Besides getting 100% of our attention, always getting her own way, and yogurt

, we can't think of any rewards.

 

[speairson]

I'm sorry you are having a tough time. With the tantrums I don't know if I agree to totally ignore them. When my dc tantrum I calmly ask them what they need. If they tantrum persists and they are really out of control, I tell them that mommy will be here when they are ready. At that point I stay in the room mainly because I feel like the strong emotions they are experiencing may be scary and I don't want them to be alone. However, I don't look at or talk to them while they are out of control. When they are ready they will come to me and we'll address what they need/want. I always praise them for calming down and coming to me and give lots of hugs and cuddles. I fully understand that it's extremely difficult to watch your child tantrum though.

As for rewards, praise works wonders for us. For example, ds used to throw tantrums when it was time to leave fun places. To try to prevent this, we would talk about leaving on the way there. When he would start to tantrum I would remind him of the things we had talked about. Then if he didn't tantrum we would make a huge deal about how wonderful his behavior was, and he would just beam. Other rewards we have used are trips to the park, going to a favorite restaurant, going for a walk, doing a favorite activity, and calling a grandmother.

I hope you find something that works for you

 

[dharmamama]

Our son came home at officially 21 months, but in reality he was probably about 33 months. When he would have tantrums I would pick him up, sit down in the rocking chair, and rock him until he either 1) fell asleep or 2) calmed down enough to discuss it.

My honest opinion is that the last thing a newly adopted child needs is to be ignored. You can provide nurturing and support without letting your child manipulate you by simply remaining with your child but not giving in to her tantrums.

Now that our son is probably about 4 1/2 and has been with us for almost two years, when he starts to tantrum I simply say, "Please stop talking to me like that. Tell me what you want in a nice voice." Often this does the trick because he has learned (over time) that he will not be rewarded for throwing a tantrum. In our house we require polite voices before our kids get anything they are asking for.

My final opinion, and, of course, you can take any or all of what I say with a large grain of salt, is that there may be nothing you can do right now about your daughter's behavior. She may have a lot of pain and anger and fear inside that she just needs to get out before she can get a handle on her behavior. I think that consistent support is the best thing to help her with that anger.

One thing that has helped me with all my kids, not just my adopted ones, is that sometimes you have to act loving even when you don't feel loving. Don't beat yourself up about not feeling super-attached. It will come in time.

I think that rewarding good behavior can be useful, but be careful that she doesn't feel all the more rejected when she melts down anyway and fails to get the reward.

Namaste!

 

[lauren]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkingirl71 She did sort of an intake and concluded that our daughter is attaching well, but my husband and I have the attachment problem because we are having such problems managing our daughter's behavior. I mostly agree with this. We spend a lot of time beating ourselves up because she is more attached than we are.

Oh dear. I am a little concerned about the therapist's interpretation of things. I do a lot of post adoption attachment work and I don't think this is terribly helpful. Attachment is a relationship. Two ways, reciprocal. One person in the relationship can be more "ready" to attach (fewer barriers inside emotionally) than another, but there should not be a 'diagnosis' the problem is in you and your dh. If the therapist is suggesting that she is more ready to attach than you are, a potential next step is for you and dh to do some internal work to find out what barriers there are inside that are getting in the way of attaching to her. This could be as simple as a really honest inventory of the things that are disappointing, frustrating, scary, etc. about this child or this adoption, or it could involve work with a therapist of your own to figure out if there are more deeply held beliefs or hurts that get in the way of attaching to this particular child. A parent can have no problems attaching to other children, but for some reason a certain child will come along (either through birth or through adoption) that just triggers the parent in some way (could be things about the parent's own childhood or just characteristics of the child herself). Is this making sense?

Either way, I can't imagine the recommendation to ignore tantrums ever being the outcome. (at least from a relationally focused therapist or specialist).

In my opinion, there are two types of tantrums. There are tantrums that are meant to manipulate. These can only establish themselves if someone regularly gives in to the demand behind the tantrum. Then there are what is called "spillover tantrums". These are described really well the the Raising YOur Spirited Child" book. Spillover tantrums happen when a child is overstimulated and just can't manage anymore. Spillover tantrums can be caused by real things you can see (such as you've had to say 'no' too many times in a row due to negative choices by the child) or caused by things you can't see (a child with sensory issues has been dealing with lights that are too bright, too much noise, a scratchy shirt, etc.) Either way it is a meltdown that comes from the child just not having coping resources any longer. It has nothing to do with manipulation. In my opinion, to ignore a tantrum that comes from this cause would increase negative behavior, because then the child feels rejected, unsupported and continues to lack the coping resources that she needs to get back into the flow of things. It's called becoming dysregulated and it happens to all of us, not just little people! (adults have tantrums too!).

So the question is, what should you do when your little one becomes dysregulated? In a good attachment, mom or dad provides the containment to help the child self-regulate again. This can come from holding her during the tantrum, sitting close by and providing physical presence and reassurance that she is o.k. and she will feel in control again soon, or other nurturing ways of helping her to know that you understand she is out of control and that you are ready to help her. WHen you do this, usually the child eventually runs out of steam and crawls into your lap for further reassurance. She becomes regulated again, not on her own, but through the experience of relying on your presence and nurturing; which is what we want in attachment!

I know I am saying a lot here.

I remember you saying that you might be working with a family therapist that focused on attachment; is this the person, or is this specialist just coming at it from a "behavioral" perspective (because attachment is not about 'behavior' it is about a relationship)?

Your gut is saying that you don't feel comfortable with this approach and that you are going along with it because you don't have other options. I suggest that there are other options and you should trust your gut.

 

[blessed]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dharmamama My honest opinion is that the last thing a newly adopted child needs is to be ignored. You can provide nurturing and support without letting your child manipulate you by simply remaining with your child but not giving in to her tantrums.

I think this is pretty much how I feel about the subject as well.

My dd was a year old when we brought her home from an orphanage. All toddlers tantrum, and a little one whose life has been disrupted as much as our kids have been has even more reasons to feel unhappy and unsettled at times.

Early on I made it a policy not to 'give in' to tantrums, for the same reasons that you mention - not wanting to reward and facilitate the bad behaviors. So if dd is melting down because she wants to eat a popcycle in bed, I make it a point not to give her the popcycle. But I have never ignored her or turned away from her distress, and I fear that to do so would damage her trust in me. So I continue to comfort her and empathize with her unhappiness, and also to encourage her to interact more appropriately, as dharmamama mentions. She has always seemed to respond well to a gentle chiding, sort of a "Oh noooooo, honey! We don't talk that way, please. Say mama, may I have a popcycle, please?" spoken in a soothing voice.

I do a lot of redirecting and also compromising. If she calms down and interacts nicely, we might get out of bed to have a popcycle sitting at the kitchen table, for instance.

I've always thought that the tantruming was frightening to dd and that she was looking to me for a way to navigate her way through these terrible, raging emotions. To me, it feels like a parental obligation of mine to HELP her deal with tantrums, to learn how to talk herself down from them when they occur and to circumnavigate them when she and I see them starting to come on. Just like she looks to me to help her with difficulties on the playground, or if she's sick, or in feeling safe and loved, she also looks to me to help her learn to deal with her sadness and frustration.

I also think that our little adopted ones can use tantrums to 'test' our love. They want to know just what it's going to take before we turn our backs on them in the way that everyone else in their lives ever has. Ignoring or otherwise withdrawing our love and approval during these times may just reinforce their fears that they can and will drive us away some day. At times when dd has been rejecting during a tantrum ('go away! Leave me alone!'), I have always made it a point to stay by her side or in the immediate proximity, and will even say outloud "Oh no, I'm never going away. I'm going to stay right here, no matter what! You can't make me go away, no matter what you do. I'm always going to be right here with you."

I'm sure your child will do fine whatever methods you choose, if they stem from love and a desire to do what's best for her. There are a million ways to raise a happy, healthy child. I just hope I'm managing to stumble onto one of them

.

 

[pumpkingirl71]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lauren If the therapist is suggesting that she is more ready to attach than you are, a potential next step is for you and dh to do some internal work to find out what barriers there are inside that are getting in the way of attaching to her. This could be as simple as a really honest inventory of the things that are disappointing, frustrating, scary, etc. about this child or this adoption, or it could involve work with a therapist of your own to figure out if there are more deeply held beliefs or hurts that get in the way of attaching to this particular child.

I believe this is what the therpist did. She took note of signs of attachment in our daughter and asked us why were concerned. It didn't take much soul searching. Our daughter tantrums and shows agression any time my husband and I show affection to anyone but her.

Quote:

In my opinion, there are two types of tantrums. There are tantrums that are meant to manipulate. These can only establish themselves if someone regularly gives in to the demand behind the tantrum. Then there are what is called "spillover tantrums".

We don't know if our daughter's tantrums are "learned behavior," but she does tantrum to manipulate. This is why the therapist wants us to ignore tantrums. But she also tantrums after she hits her brother and is then separted from him.

Quote:

I remember you saying that you might be working with a family therapist that focused on attachment; is this the person, or is this specialist just coming at it from a "behavioral" perspective (because attachment is not about 'behavior' it is about a relationship)?

This is a family therapist that focuses on the needs of foster and adopted children with medical problems. After her initial intake, she decided we needed a behaviorist approach. I didn't ask about any kind of attachment therapy because I do think that it is the behavior that is getting in the way, not the other way around.

 

[pumpkingirl71]

Quote:

Originally Posted by blessed Early on I made it a policy not to 'give in' to tantrums, for the same reasons that you mention - not wanting to reward and facilitate the bad behaviors. So if dd is melting down because she wants to eat a popcycle in bed, I make it a point not to give her the popcycle.

I guess I should have been more clear. My daugher tantrums and shows agression. She tantrums because she is not allowed to hit her brother. That is very different from not being allowed to eat what she wants.

Quote:

I'm sure your child will do fine whatever methods you choose, if they stem from love and a desire to do what's best for her. There are a million ways to raise a happy, healthy child. I just hope I'm managing to stumble onto one of them .

Thank you

 

[tiffani]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkingirl71 it is the behavior that is getting in the way, not the other way around.

You're the mama of this particular child, so you'll likely know, in the end, what she really needs, but after being a parent for nearly 7 years, and going through A LOT of behavioral issues with my son, I feel pretty strongly that behavior problems are ALWAYS a result of an attachment issue, not vice versa. It can become habit for a child to throw a tantrum if that's how they've learned to get what they want, but it really, really sounds to me like she's testing your attachment in the only way she knows how. The fact that she's hitting her brother and then throwing a fit when she's removed from him sounds like a connection problem more than a manipulation problem, KWIM? She doesn't really want to hit her brother, she's just reacting to strong feelings she's having, IMO. The only time my kids EVER fight is when they feel ignored. I think something that is misunderstood about attachment is that people think it's either there or it's not -- attached or unattached -- but it's a daily adventure, even with biokids. I'm constantly (as in, several times a day sometimes) having to reaffirm for my kids that they're loved and special and worthy of my attention, not in words, but in actual connection-building attention. When they feel secure and well-liked, they'll play contentedly together, on their own, etc, and there are next to no behavioral issues.

Have you read the books "Unconditional Parenting" by Alfie Kohn and "Hold on to your Kids" by Gordon Neufeld and Gabor Mate? They're excellent, excellent books, and have totally changed my views on raising kids -- I can't recommend them enough. I was a "behaviorist" thinker, but now I'm strongly in the "connection/relationship" camp

I think the main goal is to place your relationship with your child above any "bad" behavior that comes along. this doesn't mean ignoring or giving in to the tantrum, but make sure she knows that you are there for her, helping through her own hard feelings, and she'll likely settle into your family more comfortably.

blessings!

 

[lauren]

I think that was well put tiffani. From the outside looking in, it would also be worth thinking about whether she is angry with her brother because he has 'the goods' already (the secure attachment with parents) that she is lacking. Children know this quite early on, and will often be extremely angry with adoptive or birth siblings for having more of a connection with their parents. They know they are lonely and scared and lacking this, and will take it out on the child who doesn't because they can't express their loneliness, at any age, but particularly when they are this young.

I would agree with tiffani's book recommendations, but also the therapeutic post adoption approach of Dan Hughes.

http://danielahughes.homestead.com/Model.html