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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I want to put something together. Something that is a simple read (like the articles from parenting magazing, babytalk, ect) Some kind of short paper with the ten (or just a list) of the most compelling reasons not to vaccinate or at least study them more before you do. I know that most of us non vaxers have hardrives or books full of info. But there are people like me, that when put on the spot, just can't seem to remember or repeat them back in a way that sounds intelligent. I want something that I could not only carry around with me should the conversation ever come up and I feel like getting into it (just hand them a paper, wouldn't have to say a word). Or be able to email to various relatives and friends that still harass me about dd's vax status. I'd also want everything to have a good link or reference to it (from sites or books that the majority will respect and not think are just "hippy" sites or books).<br><br>
Some of the things that come to my mind are like how diseases (polio) were on a serious decline until the shots came around and then they went right back up. Or how many people who have gotten the flu, pertusses, or cp vax still catch the diseases. What about just how many accident/death reports that there really are (they always seem to down play that) Or how about the ingrediants in those shots (nobody seems to be aware of what they're putting into their babies/kids).<br><br>
Does something like this exist on a site somewhere so that I don't have to go and do the work myself? What are your most simple to understand/most shocking/yet compelling reasons not to vax? Something that will catch a mainstreamers eye? I'll do a search, but if something comes to the top of your head, feel free to share it. Thanks for letting me ramble <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/Bolt.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="bolt">
 

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<a href="http://www.missionislam.com/health/immunisationwhy.htm" target="_blank">10 reasons not to vaccinate</a><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">1- Vaccines have never been tested.<br>
2- Vaccines contain toxic additives and heavy metals.<br>
3- Vaccines are contaminated with human and animal viruses and bacteria<br>
4 - Vaccines can cause serious immediate side effects.<br>
5 - Vaccines can cause serious long-term side effects.<br>
6 - Vaccines do not necessarily protect against infectious diseases.<br>
7 - Doctors, as paid salesmen for vaccine products, are no longer considered to be trustworthy arbiters of their safety and effectiveness.<br>
8 - Pharmaceutical companies have paid for almost all vaccine research to date.<br>
9 - Doctors and health professionals rarely if ever report vaccine reactions.<br>
10 - Some childhood illnesses have beneficial aspects and therefore, prevention may not necessarily be in the best interests of the child.</td>
</tr></table></div>
Hope that helps. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/thumb.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="thumbs up">
 

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I am so glad you posted this! I just received the AOL/babytalk article from a friend who vaxes, and was looking for something to say back.<br><br>
thanks, and I'l be watching this post closely, I hope you get replies!
 

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i think one thing that does need addressed is to consider which side is making the money. is it the doctors/pharma companies, or the parents who have had lost a child or had one disabled due to vaccines. I'd trust the side that doesn't have anything to gain.<br><br>
Is there a way to put that as one of the ten reasons?<br><br>
#1. Support the parents, not the money grubbing pharmaceutical companies.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks Mamaintheboonies, kind of what I was looking for. Gives me a great place to start. Except I consider that one kind of vague. I don't mean that I'd want mine to be longer or anything. But I want the same kind of attention grabbing facts that the "other side" uses (but of course ours will be completely truthful). Not because I want to make up peoples minds for them by using the same kind of tactics that they use. But I want it to grab peoples attention (hopeing) that it might make them ponder some stuff (even if for a second). Thanks everyone!
 

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The above is good, but not so accurate in places, and lacking a little detail.<br><br>
Here is what I think are the 10 most basic reasons;<br><br>
1.There has never been a large scale scientific trial that has compared the short-term and long-term health of babies and children who were given all recommended vaccines, as opposed to babies and children who were given none. Vaccinated children in theory are <b>presumed</b> to be healthier by health authorities, but they cannot possibly know for sure.<br><br>
2. Virtually all pre-licensing trials of recommended vaccines did not follow up trial participants for longer than 3 to 4 weeks. That was the timescale for the UK trials in the late 80s that gave the go ahead to the MMR there. The biggest trial ever on the DPT only followed up for 48 hours! These time-frames cannot hope to find long-term side-effects.<br><br>
3. Vaccines are commonly given in batches all at once. Yet there has never been an evaluation of synergistic effects in children given 6 or 7 various vaccines at once (ie. DPT, Hep. B, Polio, prevnar). Vaccines like for example hepatitis B or DPT are evaluated individually.<br><br>
4. A utilitarian rationale is usually given by health authorities to justify the many side-effects of vaccination programmes: the benefits outweigh the risks for society as a whole. Apart from being based on defective evaluations of risks, this goes against the Nuremberg Code of medical ethics, adopted by the medical profession after WW2 in the light of Nazi doctor's experiments, which held that the rights of the individual to refuse medical treatments, and not be coerced, are more important than the alleged rights of the collective. In short, the ends cannot justify the means.<br><br>
5. Mortality records reveal that death-rates from vaccinable childhood illnesses had decreased an average of 90% in the 100 years prior to advent of mass immunisation prpgrammes in the late 1950s in western countries. Indeed, one of the most deadly diseases for children, Scarlet Fever, decreased the same as the rest, despite there never having been a mass-scale vaccine used for it. Better hygiene knowledge, increased standards of living, and evolving herd resistence can claim most of the credit.<br><br>
6. Vaccines contain proteins that can putrefy, and therefore must often contain highly toxic preservatives like mercury compounds, antifreeze and formeldehyde. They also commonly contain aluminium, antibiotics, bovine fetal serum, msg, casein, and miscellaneous viral DNA from culture mediums like human embryonic tissues, monkey kidneys etc. Not only are the synergistic effects of compounding toxic substances with unknown foreign proteins, xenoviruses etc. unknown and unevaluated: there is absolutely no will on the part of manufacturers and endorsing health bodies to start doing these evaluations.<br><br>
7.Vaccines can damage recipients, of that there is no doubt. The US government legislated in 1986, with the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act, to indemnify vaccine manufacturers from being sued by parents of vaccine-damaged children. This set up a tax-payer funded compensation scheme (VAERS) which has to date paid out ? billion dollars, despite being very hard and unfair on claimants. In effect the citizenry pay out for both the vaccines and their ensuing side-effects, allowing private companies to amass profits free of liability. This externalising of costs is great for Wall St. but not so great for damaged individuals, their families, and society in general which must bear the burden of looking after damaged children.<br><br>
8. The childhood illnesses are not generally dangerous to children who are well nourished and have normal immunity. Complications and deaths due to childhood illnesses are routinely exaggerated by health authorities in order to scare people into compliance. More holistic solutions to lessening incidence of childhood illnesses and possible complications during the vulnerable early years of infancy, like encouragement of prolonged breastfeeding (which would need to involve criticism of formula feeding), use of vitamin and mineral supplementation, good nutrition etc. are not seriously considered by health authorities because these solutions are not patentable. Non-patentable holistic solutions would definitely lead to enormous savings in healthcare costs, but would be disastrous for the balance sheets of the giant corporations of the Pharmaceutical industry. And thus the industry uses it's enormous behind-the-scenes monetary influence over the medical profession, government departments, and the mass media, to prevent non-patentable solutions from being taken seriously.<br><br><br>
9. Many studies exist showing strong links between vaccines and the documented rise of chronic illnesses amongst children and young adults in recent years. All vaccines are capable of provoking inflammation of the central nervous system (brain fevers) leading to subtle brain damage, autoimmune dysfunctions, often involving the gut, and general malaise. Prestigious medical journals, for example, have published studies showing a link between the MMR vaccine and autism, as well as chronic bowel diseases like Chrohns and ulceritive colitis. Similar studies have linked the hepatitis B shot with M.S, blindness (optic neuritis), severe rheumatoid arthritis, and juvenile diabetes; while the DPT is linked strongly with autism, SIDS, asthma, epilepsy, shock syndromes, cerebral palsey, and learning problems. The oral polio vaccine is an acknowledged cause of polio, and is reported to carry the contaminent simian virus no. 40 which is a known carcinogen. It is impossible to keep SV40 and other monkey viruses out of the vaccines because the vaccine manufacturing process requires polio viruses to be cultured on minced up monkey kidneys.<br><br><br>
10. Vaccines are a quick-fix technocentric profit-driven solution which teaches people to have faith in things outside of themselves. This is unrealistic because without our innate wonderfully flexible and innovative vital forces or immune-systems we could not hope to survive a day. Reductionist medical interventions like vaccination fail to account for the whole of what makes up good health: good nutrition, clean water, maturation of immunity by experience of acute illnesses, love, breastfeeding, freedom from hormone disrupting chemicals and heavy metals etc. In the end good health is the only true immunity.<br><br><br><br>
I'm open to criticism and suggestions to improve the above. Perhaps you think I have missed a major point? I'm sure there must be more...<br><br>
Can't remember the sum that has been paid out thru VAERS. Can anyone help?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Wow Aquaduct <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/bow.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="bow"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/bow2.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="bow2"> You rule! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/thumb.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="thumbs up"> Thanks for all of the info.
 

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Lots of good stuff so far <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"><br><br><br>
I enjoy passing on this particular 10 myths of vaccines:<br><br><a href="http://www.relfe.com/vaccine.html" target="_blank">http://www.relfe.com/vaccine.html</a><br><br>
See what you think.<br><br><br>
Sherra
 

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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/bow2.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="bow2"><br><br>
we are in your debt...Aqueduct!<br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/bow.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="bow"><br><br>
'Siete il la cosa migliore!' <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/thumb.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="thumbs up"><br><br>
or if Gitti was here: 'Sie sind das beste'.
 

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wow.great!!
 

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Sherra, that was a great link, but it's a 10 year old article.<br><br>
Do you or anyone by chance know if there is a more current study like that? I'm afraid the people I send it to may use that as a reason to discredit the great arguments it has.
 

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Unfortunately updated info is spread throughout a lot of sources. This was the first article I came across that seemed to tie it all together. I have been researching this probably for the past 6 months heavily and spent probably over 2500 hours reading lol. I wish I could point to one document that changed my mind...but how I look at this stuff is all the things I read got me to think and question and look up more stuff.<br><br>
Anyone that I know that doesn't vaccinate has put in time (maybe not as much as me) but they put in more time than one article. My point is if they can't question or don't want to think past the age of this article and go look further to satisfy their curiousity, an updated solid article won't change them since it will still be against their own medical docs advice. If you don't find a more updated document, maybe you can preface that when you give it to someone to read with, not much has changed since this document was written then deal with any questions that arise from that.<br><br>
When I read dated material, I think to myself, what has changed since then? I didn't find that things have changed since then except we now have even more vaccines! Probably the only other thing that has changed perception wise is that we now have some mercury free vaccines which in some cases, is very misleading and even a downright lie in some cases <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"> .<br><br>
I wish I had THE document that would bonk people over the head and knock some sense into them. This thread can be a great start into creating a document with updated facts to inform people. God knows we definitely have extremely smart people here that can help put one together!
 

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Thanks Melaya & Applejuice. It took a while to write that.<br><br>
I'm not sure if I ought to've included somewhere about how vaccination bypasses the normal sequence of immune defences in the body by going straight into the bloodstream, past mucus membranes. To me this is an important point, worth making.
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Aquaduct</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Thanks Melaya & Applejuice. It took a while to write that.<br><br>
I'm not sure if I ought to've included somewhere about how vaccination bypasses the normal sequence of immune defences in the body by going straight into the bloodstream, past mucus membranes. To me this is an important point, worth making.</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
I agree, and that's one of the points I can usually remember when in a debate. Oh how I wish I could write as articulately as you all! Wonderful thread, especially for me in light of the fact that I'm about to spend the holidays with my very pro-vax in-laws. I'm sure it will come in handy<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Thanks again everyone. It's going to take me a while to study enough and get what I want down perfectly. It has to be short enough that people will finish it, long enough that it's informative, technical enough that people take it seriously, yet an easy enough ready that everyone will understand it, and I want it to be written so that it's eye catching, grabs you in and (just maybe, I'll cross my fingers) might make a hard core vaxer just think for a moment. :LOL <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/bouncy.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="bouncy"> When I'm finished I'll share on here for editing and advice. Keep sharing the info! Great stuff <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">
 

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Thanks everybody for all the great information! I am lurking here since I just had a little debate with my mom about vax. she is in the medical field and very pro-meds, pro-vax. (she's the one who has whatever drug you "need" in her purse for headache/ stomach ache/ poison ivy......)<br><br>
Thanks for providing me with some ammo to have an educated discussion with her about my choices. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lurk.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lurk">: <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/notes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="notes">:
 

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[QUOTE ]Vaccines are a quick-fix technocentric profit-driven solution which teaches people to have faith in things outside of themselves. This is unrealistic because without our innate wonderfully flexible and innovative vital forces or immune-systems we could not hope to survive a day. Reductionist medical interventions like vaccination fail to account for the whole of what makes up good health: good nutrition, clean water, maturation of immunity by experience of acute illnesses, love, breastfeeding, freedom from hormone disrupting chemicals and heavy metals etc. In the end good health is the only true immunity.<br>
[/QUOTE]<br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/winky.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Wink">
 

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Just wanted to say thanks for bumping this thread. I have been looking for something like this for a while. Helpful for people like me, who are still researching, but are overwhelmed. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/thumb.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="thumbs up">
 

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Great thread! Thanks so much for bumping!<br><br>
I was wondering if anyone had links that could be added to 'back-up' what Aquaduct posted. Or so that if someone was reading it they could go to another place for more detailed information.
 
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