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OK, sorry, I did not see this thread. I just posted a similar one in INV.
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
OK, sorry, I did not see this thread. I just posted a similar one in INV.
So sorry!!! Since I've been blocked from the Selective Vaccinating forum my posting and reading ability on these forums has been all messed up!
Just saw the INV thread, thanks and want to contribute, figuring out how now.... TBC, that's to be continued......:smile:

OK, nevermind, i'm just going to continue on here if that's ok. Wanted to make a comment about Dr Mikovitz. Saw her interview on Periscope with the Vaxxed tour and was rendered sick to my stomach. I had not read her book yet, so was not familiar with the details. Does that really happen in America?!!!! My daughter (and i - read together) just got done reading the children's book I Lived On Butterfly Hill, which is a fictional account of Pinochet's tyranny. The abuse inflicted on scientists, SCIENTISTS! is just gob smacking. I'm having a hard time down here in the rabbit hole. Does anyone have some climbing gear?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
When you get to the point of denying access to an education to children, aren't you really just done as a culture of people?
If Clinton is elected, and if SB277 is an example, the only way my now eleven yr old will have access to a public, or private (like i could afford it) education, is if he is dosed up with a bunch of crap. I know, home school, he'd hate me forever if i took him away from the school he wants to go to.

I'm desperately hoping Clinton doesn't make his education contingent on what he has been injected with. Stop laughing at me you guys, i'm allowed to wishfully think.....
 

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When you get to the point of denying access to an education to children, aren't you really just done as a culture of people?
It is pretty horrific - and I do not care how much proponents try to dress it up as simply a choice/consequence thing....
 

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It is pretty horrific - and I do not care how much proponents try to dress it up as simply a choice/consequence thing....
I agree. And this is why many of the analogies used to justify kicking large numbers of children out of school are so off-tone. For example, describing unvaxed or incompletely vaxed kids as equivalent to handguns.

Alas, it was quite easy to find an example. http://matzav.com/the-invisible-bullet-of-non-vaccination/

Imagine a 6 year old child walking into a classroom waving a loaded gun amidst his classmates while his pregnant teacher acts as if nothing is wrong. Now imagine a week later 4 more gun-toting children come to school with no objection from any school personnel.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
so do you think that with regard to what we are injecting into our children science is thwarted by politics? and how disgusting that that is the case.....

this is only my opinion
 

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Well...I don't think that science has ever been free of politics. I could go through a big pile of historical examples, but why bother?

Human beings are never pure. We all come into our adult lives trailing cultural assumptions (some people are naturally inferior), all of us are capable of being tempted by money or power, everyone is capable of being intimidated by threats of one sort or another. The human beings who always see with clarity and who operate from moral conviction are very rare, and even these people aren't right ALL of the time.

Let's get real.

Science can be corrupted and twisted for profit or for other reasons that seem good at the time. So can religion, commerce, medicine, music, art, and any other human activity.

Perfectly possible that people who are proclaiming the unquestionable wonderfulness of vaccines really believe what they are saying, for the most part, but don't they ever pause to question WHY, if vaccines are so unquestionably great, it is necessary to spend so much time attacking people who have concerns?
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Indeed!!! Why?!!!! ok obviously, for profit, but, surly at some point the truth would have to prevail? Deb, (or anyone) what do You think about Dr. Mikovitz? This rattles me to my core. i just keep thinking, this doesn't happen in america, this is not how it's supposed to be, do you think she was jailed for a valid reason? is this just all conspiracy speak?

(insert relieving joke) INQUIRING MINDS WANT TO KNOW :grin: and thx!
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
In my Mom's America, we didn't jail scientists. Ok, i have to go futher:

Nixon and Reagan, in my humble opinion, were jerks - (ok no haters- very sorry if i offend), however, to the best of my knowledge, and will be glad for the correction, neither on of those aholes jailed any scientists? Obama put Dr Mikovitz in jail. Does anyone have a different assessment? Still hoping for that climbing gear?
 

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Human beings are never pure. We all come into our adult lives trailing cultural assumptions (some people are naturally inferior), all of us are capable of being tempted by money or power, everyone is capable of being intimidated by threats of one sort or another. The human beings who always see with clarity and who operate from moral conviction are very rare, and even these people aren't right ALL of the time.
Just to play devil's advocate: I would imagine the defence against this is that the scientific process has a lot of built in checks that take the likelihood of human frailty out of the equation: randomization, blind studies, peer review, replication.

The problem is that these checks and balances are run by humans, and can themselves be so flawed that we cannot rely on their conclusions. If we could industry studies would not have more favourable results than non-industry studies, for example.
 

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In my Mom's America, we didn't jail scientists. Ok, i have to go futher:

Nixon and Reagan, in my humble opinion, were jerks - (ok no haters- very sorry if i offend), however, to the best of my knowledge, and will be glad for the correction, neither on of those aholes jailed any scientists? Obama put Dr Mikovitz in jail. Does anyone have a different assessment? Still hoping for that climbing gear?
I don't think that what happened to Mikovitz came from the presidential level. I need to look into the story further, it is a long time since I read an account.
 

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So sorry!!! Since I've been blocked from the Selective Vaccinating forum my posting and reading ability on these forums has been all messed up!
Just saw the INV thread, thanks and want to contribute, figuring out how now.... TBC, that's to be continued......:smile:

OK, nevermind, i'm just going to continue on here if that's ok. Wanted to make a comment about Dr Mikovitz. Saw her interview on Periscope with the Vaxxed tour and was rendered sick to my stomach. I had not read her book yet, so was not familiar with the details. Does that really happen in America?!!!! My daughter (and i - read together) just got done reading the children's book I Lived On Butterfly Hill, which is a fictional account of Pinochet's tyranny. The abuse inflicted on scientists, SCIENTISTS! is just gob smacking. I'm having a hard time down here in the rabbit hole. Does anyone have some climbing gear?
I didn't know this name, so I looked her up.

She did science that couldn't be replicated, and was withdrawn. Then her employer accused her of taking documents off site.

My husband works in a pigments plant. He goes in and out through a security checkpoint. I will never see his office, because all the lab buildings are restricted...they fear industrial espionage. Most of the college educated people in my county work under similar conditions at other chemical plants. And when someone leaves employment, security boxes up your stuff and puts it at the checkpoint, you don't get to box your own.

These are ordinary conditions, for as long as I can remember, and researchers sign contracts that their employer may have the right to any patents.

So I'm not sure how this relates to the government being out to get her.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Dr Mikovitz is the reason Majic Johnson is alive. She broke broke my heart last year when SHe was asked if vaccines causse autism and said "no" but context is key, so back- off Reiss, and Offit, because context is also fact!
 
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