[Summer1216]

<p>I've been blessed with a sweet boy who looooooves to breast feed. *Edit - he's 4 months old - During the day he eats fairly well every couple of hours, but is more interested in seeing what's going on around him. During the day he'll happily smack away on his hands or mine, or what ever happens to be within tongue distance... but a night, nothing but the real deal will suffice. We tried and tried to get him to take a pacifier and he spits it out and gags (every brand we can get ahold of). </p>
<p> </p>
<p>We co-sleep, because he can't seem to sleep very long without sucking. He's not really eating that much at night, just wants my nipple in his mouth. He does eat a lot once or twice a night, but mostly just wants a few hard sucks... then just nuzzles and gently sucks (I doubt he's even getting milk) the rest of the time. I can feed him up til he's full, then we lay down to sleep and I cover my breast and move away from him. He usually wakes within 15-45 minutes and wants to suck again.<br><br>
This goes on most of the night. If the nipple isn't immediately presented when he starts to stir he wakes completely and cries... then has a full awake time for an hour or two and will only fall to sleep if he's nursing. The only way I've gotten him to sleep more than one hour in a stretch is when I'm overcome with exhaustion and can manage to sleep curled up around him with my breast in his mouth. It's uncomfortable for me to sleep that way, because I have hip and back issues.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I seriously doubt it's a lack-of-touch issue during the day. I stay home with him all day. I carry him around in the moby on my chest. I sit and nurse him several hours a day. A babysitter comes for about 2 hours a day and puts him in a podaegi (korean back carrier) and paces the floor with him. His daddy is very tactile and plays lots of games, and stretches/rubs him.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>In the afternoon, he;ll often sleep for 2-3 hours, but will wake every 30-60 minutes and want to feed.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>It's driving me crazy. Any ideas?</p>

 

[kanga1622]

<p>I don't have any ideas but I'm right there with you. DS eats so much at night and must stay constantly latched on. Unfortunately, breastfeeding is painful for me in the best of times so right now it is excruciating. I keep hoping it gets better because we co-sleep only so that I get some sleep. My back is screaming for a break from curling around the baby all night also.</p>

 

[Summer1216]

<p>ooooh ouch, that doesn't sound good. Why is it painful? Latch issues? How old is your baby?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>And what does "DS" mean? I see lots of abrev. like that. </p>

 

[Shanesmom]

Sounds like a happy four month old baby boy that's getting his needs met! Good for you mama. Hang in there.

 

[kanga1622]

DS=dear son<br>
DD=dear dog<br>
DH=dear (or dang) husband<br>
DP=dear partner<br><br>
Those are the most common abbreviations around here and will really help you understand a lot of the posts.<br><br>
DS is almost 9 months old and has been a baby in need of constant sucking pretty much from the beginning. He clusterfed a lot early on and still eats about every 2 hours during the day. As far as I can tell after working with the lactation nurse at the hospital, he has a somewhat shallow latch but nothing that should cause all my pain. Seems like I am just one of the lucky ones with more nerve endings than normal so breastfeeding is more painful.<br><br>
Last night was better than the previous ones. DS got a new tooth yesterday and that always makes his latch a little more painful for a few days until his pain lessens and he figures out how not to bite.

 

[craft_media_hero]

<p><span><img alt="hug.gif" src="http://files.mothering.com/images/smilies/hug.gif"> No advice, just that I'm in the same boat, too! Ds will sleep for a while without being latched, but he wakes about every 45min to 1.5hr to nurse for a pretty long stretch all night long, too. My boy is around the same age, too, and not too big into eating during the day. It's rough! Hang in there.....I'm hoping that it'll just kind of resolve on its own and that we won't be doing this constant night feeding forever.</span></p>

 

[Summer1216]

<p>Thx for the sympathy </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Nice to know I"m not doing something "wrong" (contrary to what everyone else seems to be telling me...)</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I REALLY want him to sleep in his own bed though... DS does a lot of flailing around in his sleep - which wakes my hubby and I up.  I'm a really light sleeper, and my poor husband has been relegated to the floor for the last 4 months so both of us could get some sleep. I love my baby but I want him out of my bed, and my hubby back in it.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I heard when they're 5mo their sleeping changes, and they can also have a better grasp on settling themselves... I'm hoping my hubby can take a week off and do some re-arranging of the sleep situation with me.</p>

 

[craft_media_hero]

<p>Summer, my hub has been sleeping on the floor, too Ds doesn't move around a lot in his sleep, but he does seem to sleep for a longer stretch when he starts out in his rocking cradle--we have it in the room with us. Then he wakes in the middle of the night, comes to bed with me, and does the all-night suckling for the rest of the night. Do you have a bassinet/co-sleeper that he could start out the night in?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>You're not doing anything wrong. It will work out.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Incidentally, I recently read that a mother's prolactin levels are highest between 1 and 5 am, so I think that this feeding time must be hard-wired into babies and mommies' body chemistry. I know that doesn't make the sleep deprivation any easier, but it made me feel a little better knowing that this is natural (and it IS temporary) for both me and baby.</p>

 

[Asiago]

<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>craft_media_hero</strong> <a href="/community/forum/thread/1281811/the-eternal-night-sucker#post_16080174"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a><br><br><p> </p>
<p>Incidentally, I recently read that a mother's prolactin levels are highest between 1 and 5 am, so I think that this feeding time must be hard-wired into babies and mommies' body chemistry. I know that doesn't make the sleep deprivation any easier, but it made me feel a little better knowing that this is natural (and it IS temporary) for both me and baby.</p>
</div>
</div>
<p><br>
This makes sense and my son nurses a lot it seems in the early morning hours (he's 13 months). </p>
<p>Also sucking is important for development. I read that an EEG shows a lot of brain activity when baby sucks the breast, less with a bottle and none on the pacifier.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Jourrnal of Pediatrics:  <a href="http://www.jpeds.com/article/S0022-3476(98)70354-3/abstractQuote" target="_blank">http://www.jpeds.com/article/S0022-3476(98)70354-3/abstractQuote</a>:</p>
<p> </p>
<div class="quote-container"><br><div class="quote-block">
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<div class="ja50-ce-abstract" id="user_abstract" style="font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;">
<div class="ja50-ce-abstract-section" style="margin-top:0px;padding-top:0px;">
<p class="ja50-ce-simple-para" style="clear:none;margin-top:0px;padding-top:0px;"><b>Results:</b> The amplitude of the EEG increased significantly during breast-feeding in the posterior cortical areas in both hemispheres with a slight predominance on the right. Bottle- feeding caused a similar, but somewhat less marked change. When the breast- and bottle-fed infants were compared, a significant difference was found in only one parameter of the 84 studied. Pacifier sucking had no significant effects on EEG activity. <b>Conclusion:</b> Nursing effects a change in the brain activity of the newborn. The cortical response to nursing is most probably a result of activation of the neurohumoral mechanisms related to hunger and satisfaction, including the hypothalamic, limbic, and other brain stem structures, which also regulate the sleep-wake cycle and modulate the level of cortical activity with respect to attention and vigilance. (J Pediatr 1998;132:646-51.)</p>
<div> </div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

 

[Summer1216]

<p>hmmm...</p>
<p> </p>
<p>We have a crib that can go near our bed, but he doesn't sleep if he's left alone. He'll do about an hour in his swing. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>He sleeps better between about 9pm- 1 or 2am, but the problem with that is we've got a reeeeeally small apartment (think new-york-shoe-box) and my husband doesn't usually get home until 7-10pm, and that wakes up the baby. If I lay down with him at 8-9pm he sometimes does well for several hours, but the house is so small he'll wake up even with a noise machine.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Thx for the tips though! He DOES love to eat after about 1-2am, so maybe the problem is I'm starting the night too late.</p>

 

[melkaya]

<p>I have been dealing with the same frustration lately. I wouldn't mind it so much, but my hips are still all messed up from pregnancy and it really hurts to lay on them all night. My boy is 4 months and stirs like crazy and if he doesn't get the boob, he wakes. When I give him the boob, he takes a few sucks and then sleeps but wants the boob to stay. It's a cycle. But I think it might have to do with teething as well. Oh... I don't really know, that's just a guess. But I do swaddle him. I have to because his arms flail like crazy. I tried a few nights without it and neither of us got much sleep. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>I plan for him to stay in our bed for a while, but the constant latch doesn't work for me.</p>

 

[zensven42]

<p>Oh yes, the constant nursing at that age is just a fact of life, especially as they go through their 4mo growth spurt. I have back/hip problems and I found a pillow saved me from insanity. I use a squishy feather pillow, folded and stuffed behind my back so I can lay back at an angle while nursing instead of being directly on my hip and using my own strength to hold myself up. If laying back raises the level of the breast to make latch difficult, you can use a pad (maybe a folded towel or blanket inside a pillow case, or a changing table pad) to raise the level of the child. I would think it might be more difficult to do this with smaller breasts, but I have no idea. The main idea is to take pressure off the hips and back by using pillow support. I would suggest getting a small pile of pillows and seeing what works for you. Hope this helps- good luck!</p>

 

[jimblejamble]

Agh, I have the same issue. In fact the reason my husband is getting take-out food tonight is because I kinked my middle back muscles last night from arching and being twisted up all night.

 

[Bebe's Mom]

dd=dear dog, really?? I thought it meant Dear Daughter, whoops, guess I have been calling my daughter a dog all this time! As far as the OP (original poster) I had this same issue with my DD (daughter, not dog, lol) You can try gently releasing her latch when she is asleep and barely nursing, it takes time for it to work consistently, but if you keep with it, eventually you will be able to unlatch him and he will go to sleep. Elizabeth Pantley talks about this in her book, The No Cry Sleep Solution. As far as the nursing through the night, that mostly stopped at our house when we started putting the bebe in her crib...She is 14 months now and is nursing 2-3 times a night, hopefully she will be nightweaned by the time she is two....Good luck, and don't worry, this is totally normal, at least it was for me. My daughter nursed CONSTANTLY from the time she was born until she was around 5 months, I hardly ever got off the couch.

 

[ariatrance]

<p>My daughter is 21 months now and has followed this same pattern for a handful of growth spurts during that time, including around 4 mos. It was really just a few nights (a week at most), then she was back to eating and getting off of me. Anytime the baby sucks, he will be getting milk, though in varying amounts. The constant stimulation will also help increase and keep up your supply so he can continue to grow. As he gets older, he will get more distracted by the world and <em>probably</em> will not nurse as much during the day, therefore he will make up his calorie deficit at night. As with most things baby, there is a cycle. Everything will change in a week or two and you'll be encountering different situations. I also suggest a side-car crib or co-sleeper. My girl loved to be right next to me but I was able to gently ease her over once she was deeply asleep and she stayed asleep as long as I kept a hand on her. Now she rolls over into the crib on her own when she wants her space. It certainly wouldn't hurt as a transition to a crib if that is your end goal.</p>

 

[Summer1216]

<p>Last night drove me nearly at my wits end. He sucked ALL NIGHT.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I detatched him with my finger, and eased away... and 1 or 2 (sometimes 20) minutes later he was awake and fussing. He's not even *eating*, just sucking and licking a little every few minutes. I'm a really light sleeper, so even his sucking keeps me awake.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I'm completely useless during the day because I'm so exhausted. Yesterday I had to get some of this dang house work done, so I drank coffee to perk me up. I got some things done (nothing revolutionary... just put in a load of laundry, washed the dishes, vacuumed) but by 7pm I was feeling dizzy and struggling to keep my eyes open. I can't keep my thoughts in order. Even when I have a "good" nights sleep it's only meaning that I got 2 uninterrupted hours of sleep (followed by nursing every hour).</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I was so tired this morning when I woke up that his usual morning antics (smiling, cooing) that I normally find adorable were just irritating. I hate that I'm only about half-a-night's missed sleep from yelling at him. In the middle of the night when he insists on nursing I want to shove him away from me. I'm not normally that way - Before I had him I could stay up all night and still be reasonable the next day. I've not had more than 2 hours sleep at a time for 4 months now, and a lot of nights its more like 30 minutes of sleep. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>I love my baby and I don't want to emotionally damage him or make him feel abandon by putting him in another room to cry-it-out but I'm nearing the end of my rope. I want to do something gentle to ease him into it. Ideally I'd love to have him in a co-sleeper next to the bed, so I can nurse him every 2-4 hours.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>All the other sleep solutions (besides CIO) I've seen involve some one else helping out. That's not possible. Right now he's working 7 days a week, working 90-100 hours (S.Korean army on high alert) and only comes home every couple of days. </p>

 

[alegna]

<p><span><img alt="hug2.gif" src="http://files.mothering.com/images/smilies/hug2.gif">  that sounds rough.  Is there someone else who can help you?  A family member?  A babysitter?  A mom's helper?  Someone to hang out so you can catch an hour or two nap during the day?</span></p>
<p> </p>
<p>I would also analyze what would make you comfortable enough to sleep while nursing.  Are you concerned about rolling on him?  Is your back hurting?  Your hip?  And see if there is some way to fix that thing so that you can sleep while he nurses.  That's just a rough age- most babies really nurse a lot at night at that age.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>-Angela</p>

 

[lookatreestar]

<p>i would try to hang in there... 4 months is awfully young imo. both my kids started sleeping great after 6 months- i think 4 months was a huge growth spurt or something. it was like they needed to stay attached all night.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>i would personally follow your baby lead... do you have another bed or crib you can side car to the bed?</p>

 

[Summer1216]

<p><span>I would think though that 4mo isn't too young to expect 2 hours between feedings at night though. </span><img alt="headscratch.gif" src="http://files.mothering.com/images/smilies/headscratch.gif"></p>
<p> </p>
<p>I feed on demand all day, when ever he likes and he's seemed like he's reduced his day-eating significantly (by himself) since he started being more interested in other things. </p>
<p>I feel like I can hang on a few more weeks while my husband continues his crazy schedule (war threats are bad for family sleep arrangements) <img alt="sleepytime.gif" src="http://files.mothering.com/images/smilies/sleepytime.gif"> but I've got to get this completely sorted by the time I go back to work in March. I realize that in baby-time that's a long way off (3mo) but it's looming up so quickly I am getting tense about it. </p>

 

[ShwarmaQueen]

<p>Sounds just like both of mine. Totally normal to want to suck/eat all night long. Where there's boob, there's momma, and momma= safety.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Anyway, when I'm at my wits end, my hubby pushes DS around the block in the stroller or drives around, etc. for a couple hours to let me rest. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>It's a tough period, but please PLEASE reach out to somebody and get a little break.</p>