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Discussion Starter #1
I cannot TELL you all how grateful I am to see this forum. I joined MDC years ago (different user name), but left in disgust over all the anti vax tripe.<br><br>
I'm back on a DDC, but was starting to get aggravated again. I cosleep, I baby carry, I breastfeed past a year and I don't follow mainstream parenting ideas much (re CIO etc.) ... do it seemed like MDC should be my spot. But the gleeful disregard for scientific evidence re vaccines is heartbreaking to me.<br><br>
So you are all a breath of fresh air, thank you.<br><br>
DH and I are set for our DTAP boosters this spring and so is everyone else who wants to be at our house next year. No exceptions. The idea of a friend of DD with a quiet "religious exemption" coming over, though, is scary to me. I feel like their friends are wild cards now, with the pertussis going through the world.
 

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My due date club here had quite a few members who were fully vaccinating on schedule. I think once we got to know each other the vax side spoke up and no one was offended and i never felt judged by my stance.
 

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<div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/community/t/1395596/the-forum-that-will-keep-me-on-mdc#post_17544737" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>pudlenka</strong> <a href="/community/t/1395596/the-forum-that-will-keep-me-on-mdc#post_17544737"><img alt="View Post" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
I cannot TELL you all how grateful I am to see this forum. I joined MDC years ago (different user name), but left in disgust over all the anti vax tripe.<br><br>
I'm back on a DDC, but was starting to get aggravated again. I cosleep, I baby carry, I breastfeed past a year and I don't follow mainstream parenting ideas much (re CIO etc.) ... do it seemed like MDC should be my spot. But the gleeful disregard for scientific evidence re vaccines is heartbreaking to me.<br><br>
So you are all a breath of fresh air, thank you.<br><br>
DH and I are set for our DTAP boosters this spring and so is everyone else who wants to be at our house next year. No exceptions. The idea of a friend of DD with a quiet "religious exemption" coming over, though, is scary to me. I feel like their friends are wild cards now, with the pertussis going through the world.</div>
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<p>Welcome pudlenka! I had the exact same response when I came back to MDC for this pregnancy! It's so nice to have a haven. I'm also cosleeping, baby-wearing, extended breastfeeding, no circ, yadda yadda, BUT also very strong pro-vaccine. I almost disavowed MDC when someone on a Facebook thread implied that I had harmed my son by getting a flu shot during my last pregnancy and that I really needed to "do my research," telling me to go to Mercola.com for information. <img alt="banghead.gif" src="http://files.mothering.com/images/smilies/banghead.gif"> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>It's also challenging for me, being involved in the birth community in my area as a doula, childbirth educator, and La Leche League leader, to encounter a growing anti-vax sentiment among my colleagues (who I love and respect). When considering who I want to ask to be my doula, I am really struggling with the DTaP booster issue. I don't want anyone to accidentally bring pertussis into our home, and I know that some of my favorite doulas are non-vaxing. It kinda sucks.</p>
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Ocean, that's encouraging. My DDC is pretty well populated by hard-core anti-vaxers (proudly in the sig lines), so we'll see.<br><br>
Johanna, DOULAS with no pertussis vax??! In what nutty realm of thinking is that okay?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
My eyes are BUGGING OUT. I can't believe a health care provider would lie about their disease status! Makes me think I need to add requiring proof of Tdap to the doula interview process. Gaaah. Proof. Ridiculous.<br><br>
When we near 30wks we're going to write a polite note to family and close friends saying that they will need to booster up before coming to visit. I don't expect any fight.
 

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I totally support parents' rights to choose what's best for their child... but it angers me to no end that people are out there promulgating bad information leading to avoidable infections and deaths. (Jenny McCarthy, aka "E-Cigs are Sexy," I'm looking at you.) People so badly want to do what's right and we live in an age of such disillusionment and fear that we all work to arm ourselves with knowledge. I believe we all make our decisions with the very best of intentions.<br><br>
In the meantime, I choose to vaccinate my child, to protect her and others.
 

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<div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/community/t/1395596/the-forum-that-will-keep-me-on-mdc#post_17545416" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>electricalaskan</strong> <a href="/community/t/1395596/the-forum-that-will-keep-me-on-mdc#post_17545416"><img alt="View Post" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
... but it angers me to no end that people are out there promulgating bad information leading to avoidable infections and deaths. (Jenny McCarthy, aka "E-Cigs are Sexy," I'm looking at you.) </div>
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<p> </p>
<p>I find it humorous that she goes on and on about the "toxins" in vaccines but then gets botox injections.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>"<span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-size:13px;line-height:1.5em;">It is the most poisonous substance known to man. A couple of teaspoons would be enough to kill everyone in the UK. A couple of kilos would kill every human on earth. It is so dangerous that it is manufactured in military installations and at around £100 trillion per kilo it is also the most expensive substance ever made. Yet despite being so toxic and so costly it is in huge demand. Many people pay large amounts of money to have it injected into their foreheads.</span></p>
<p style="clear:left;color:rgb(51,51,51);margin-bottom:18px;">It is botulinum toxin - better known as Botox - a toxin produced by bacteria first discovered in poorly prepared sausages during the 18th Century. It was named after the Latin for sausage - botulus." </p>
<p style="clear:left;color:rgb(51,51,51);margin-bottom:18px;"> </p>
 

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<p>I have removed some posts in this thread. In the interest of respect for all parents let's not discuss the actions and statements of others posted in other threads. If you want to discuss something someone has posted you should do so directly in that thread, with the full respect and discussion of the topic itself, not as a separate side discussion here about the individual and her choices. </p>
 

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<div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/community/t/1395596/the-forum-that-will-keep-me-on-mdc#post_17545648" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Cynthia Mosher</strong> <a href="/community/t/1395596/the-forum-that-will-keep-me-on-mdc#post_17545648"><img alt="View Post" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br>
 
<p>I have removed some posts in this thread. In the interest of respect for all parents let's not discuss the actions and statements of others posted in other threads. If you want to discuss something someone has posted you should do so directly in that thread, with the full respect and discussion of the topic itself, not as a separate side discussion here about the individual and her choices. </p>
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<p> </p>
<p>People who vax are not allowed to post in the I'm Not Vaccinating forum, where the discussion took place.  If we aren't allowed to talk about it there, and we're not allowed to talk about it here, where would be a good place to talk about it?</p>
 

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Since it was my post that was removed, will Cynthia Mosher please advise if the following can be posted?<br><br>
I, as a childbirth professional, have become extremely upset and concerned about individuals in my field who purposefully lie about or obscure their vaccination status to potential clients. Also, as a consumer of said services (being pregnant myself), it is very important to me that I have clear information regarding the pertussis and influenza vaccination status of those who will be in contact with my baby. If this is a concern to you as well, please ask very clear and precise questions of the folks you may hire.<br><br>
Granted, the vast, vast majority of us will give a straight answer when asked. But as a professional and consumer, I do feel some responsibility to let people know that these are important questions to ask and verify if necessary. Informed consent, etc.
 

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<div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/community/t/1395596/the-forum-that-will-keep-me-on-mdc#post_17545058" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>pudlenka</strong> <a href="/community/t/1395596/the-forum-that-will-keep-me-on-mdc#post_17545058"><img alt="View Post" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
My eyes are BUGGING OUT. I can't believe a health care provider would lie about their disease status! Makes me think I need to add requiring proof of Tdap to the doula interview process. Gaaah. Proof. Ridiculous.<br><br>
When we near 30wks we're going to write a polite note to family and close friends saying that they will need to booster up before coming to visit. I don't expect any fight.</div>
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<p> Their disease status? They're not hiding hepatitis. </p>
 

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<p>Personally I am glad that my DDC doesn't seem as woo-ey as I had feared. I do really appreciate this subforum though!</p>
 

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<div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/community/t/1395596/the-forum-that-will-keep-me-on-mdc#post_17546287" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>pudlenka</strong> <a href="/community/t/1395596/the-forum-that-will-keep-me-on-mdc#post_17546287"><img alt="View Post" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
? Phathui5, my better judgment says that you're trolling, but I want to respond anyway ... </div>
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<p> </p>
<p>Trolling is a loaded term here, because this site has had issues in the past with people coming in from other boards particularly to start arguments and create discord.  In general, I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, because many people will find Mothering.com by googling various topics, or upon a recommendation from a friend.  Blatant trolling is pretty obvious.  Active members posting in open forums are not trolls, obviously, although I do recognize that this as a support forum should be free from debate about the topic of vaccinating on schedule.  However, a moderator actually has a duty to come and monitor threads whether or not we really are invested in the topic.</p>
<p><br>
I will say that the line "disease status" jumped out at me, because it seemed that you were talking about the DTaP immunization status of doulas, and then it jumped to implying someone was lying about their disease status.  The post that yours is in reference to has been removed.  I am not familiar with the concept of asking health care providers for their immunization status.  I had the DTP shot and boosters as a child, but I haven't been immunized against pertussis since then.  I am not a health care provider, and I know there can be different requirements for them, but I'm curious if this is a requirement.  I know that the TDaP is fairly recent, because I remember when my 14 year old was at the pediatrician's office when she was around 5 or 6, and being given an information sheet about DTaP not being approved for children past a certain age, and that TD without a pertussis component was given after the age of 7. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>OK, I actually went and looked it up, and it appears that TDaP is one of the recommended vaccines for HCPs (along with Hep B, Varicella, Flu, Meningococcal and MMR).  So if you are working with a person like a doula, that you hire on your own, not through a hospital or insurance provider, you might ask, and I could easily see a situation where a doula might not have all of these immunizations.  And I have never asked any HCP about his or her immunization status, nor have I researched the policies of the medical center & group.  I was part of a playgroup once that specifically did ask to know whether babies who had been vaccinated recently would be in attendance, as one person was worried about shedding or something of that nature.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I think a thread about this topic would be interesting, especially given that the CDC recommends TDaP for all people who work around infants, and that is bigger in scope, especially if you consider in volunteer fields who are around infants and young children as well.  </p>
 

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Discussion Starter #14
By "disease status" I meant that if someone in healthcare has chosen not to have vaccinations their simple cough may not be simple.<br><br>
I understand your concern with my word choice of "trolling". The post seemed to be deliberately provocative, which was a concern to me, as I had just found the pro-vaccination forum and was so very relieved.
 

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<div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/community/t/1395596/the-forum-that-will-keep-me-on-mdc/0_100#post_17545906" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>chickabiddy</strong> <a href="/community/t/1395596/the-forum-that-will-keep-me-on-mdc/0_100#post_17545906"><img alt="View Post" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br>
 
<p> </p>
<p>People who vax are not allowed to post in the I'm Not Vaccinating forum, where the discussion took place.  If we aren't allowed to talk about it there, and we're not allowed to talk about it here, where would be a good place to talk about it?</p>
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<p>If that is where it took place then it's pretty much not something for you to discuss at all. Talk about a subject, not about individuals. </p>
 

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<div class="quote-container" data-huddler-embed="/community/t/1395596/the-forum-that-will-keep-me-on-mdc/0_100#post_17545957" data-huddler-embed-placeholder="false">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>JohannaInDairyland</strong> <a href="/community/t/1395596/the-forum-that-will-keep-me-on-mdc/0_100#post_17545957"><img alt="View Post" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br>
Since it was my post that was removed, will Cynthia Mosher please advise if the following can be posted?<br><br>
I, as a childbirth professional, have become extremely upset and concerned about individuals in my field who purposefully lie about or obscure their vaccination status to potential clients. Also, as a consumer of said services (being pregnant myself), it is very important to me that I have clear information regarding the pertussis and influenza vaccination status of those who will be in contact with my baby. If this is a concern to you as well, please ask very clear and precise questions of the folks you may hire.<br><br>
Granted, the vast, vast majority of us will give a straight answer when asked. But as a professional and consumer, I do feel some responsibility to let people know that these are important questions to ask and verify if necessary. Informed consent, etc.</div>
</div>
<p>If this is a legitimate discussion about this topic, which you can explain where you see happening as a trend in your profession, then it seems like a topic to post in the general Vaccinations form or the Birth Professionals forum, not here. <span style="font-size:13px;line-height:1.5em;">If it is purely to respond to a discussion had in I'm Not Vaccinating based on a member's post</span><span style="font-size:13px;line-height:1.5em;">, then no - it would not be appropriate here or anywhere else. If you have an issue with that member's stated actions as an individual then send her a PM and explain your concerns.  Don'</span><span style="font-size:13px;line-height:1.5em;">t make a new discussion out of a specific incident posted about on a support forum. </span></p>
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I found it a valid and interesting point of concern. It would never have occurred to me that someone in health care would misrepresent a vaccine status without the warning shared by Johanna. Although she was explaining the actions of a specific person, she didn't call anyone out by name or geographic area etc. It came across to me as a general warning and discussion of transparency in healthcare relationships, and certainly a valid topic of discussion.
 

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I'm subscribing to this thread so i can follow along. I'm pro-vax.
 
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