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I'm still a bit puzzled.

When I was a kid in the 50s I moved around a lot. Went to 14 different schools by the time I hit 8th grade. This was the heart of the baby boom generation and every neighborhood we lived in had crowds of children. I'm just faintly bemused that two or three children or teenagers in each neighborhood could have disappeared into some sort of institution and no one would have known about it or noticed. I suppose all things are possible.

And it wasn't as though we didn't hear stuff about problems and conditions. One of my brother's friends had juvenile diabetes, for example. Another girl, around 10 years old had been a "blue baby" and looked a little odd. I found out that another child we knew was adopted.

The other thing that is weird is spotting patterns. If there is a condition which is actually occurring in 1 in 50 children it is hard to see that the pattern wouldn't be spotted. Whereas something that is occurring in say, 1 in 500 could very easily be missed or mis-diagnosed.

But whatevah...
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
I'm still a bit puzzled.

When I was a kid in the 50s I moved around a lot. Went to 14 different schools by the time I hit 8th grade. This was the heart of the baby boom generation and every neighborhood we lived in had crowds of children. I'm just faintly bemused that two or three children or teenagers in each neighborhood could have disappeared into some sort of institution and no one would have known about it or noticed. I suppose all things are possible.

And it wasn't as though we didn't hear stuff about problems and conditions. One of my brother's friends had juvenile diabetes, for example. Another girl, around 10 years old had been a "blue baby" and looked a little odd. I found out that another child we knew was adopted.

The other thing that is weird is spotting patterns. If there is a condition which is actually occurring in 1 in 50 children it is hard to see that the pattern wouldn't be spotted. Whereas something that is occurring in say, 1 in 500 could very easily be missed or mis-diagnosed.

But whatevah...
Oftentimes, not even spouses of people with autism had any idea until they were diagnosed in retrospect. To suggest children would pick up on it before there was even a name for the syndrome is pretty far-fetched. There were always the nerds, the "quirky" and anti social students - many of whom would be diagnosed with autism today. The more severe autistics were frequently institutionalized in those days. They were misdiagnosed, often abused and treated horribly. Tragically, many of them died in these institutions.
 

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Look, I went to school in those days. No, there were not dozens of nerdy kids around. In fact, my family of 5 were the nerdiest kids in any school. We read books. That was all it took to be a nerd back then. I can remember one other kid in one school was a bit of a nerd. Also Jewish. He also read books.

I was a close observer of other children, being rather shy and a bit anti-social. If there had been children who were dramatically different from other children, who stimmed, or who obsessed about a narrow range of subjects, I would have noticed. There weren't.

If families disappeared some of their children into institutions, you really think no one in those crowded suburbs would have noticed? And gossiped? It must have happened, but it wasn't happening to 1 in 50 or even 1 in 100.

That is a delightful article and I'm very glad that some of these elderly people are getting help. But it doesn't come up with any numbers that would suggest that 1 in 50 born in the 40s or 50s were autistic.
 

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The entire concept that big stuff happened and wasn't observed is weird.

Anybody else ever read The Plug in Drug by Marie Winn? About the effects of TV on children?

In the book she talks about tracking down the kindergarten teachers who worked with the first generation of children who spent time watching TV. These teachers noticed a significant and dramatic change in behavior between kids who were exposed to TV and those who were not. They were paying attention. Teachers did pay attention. They always paid attention. They knew who was coming to school hungry, for example. They knew that some kids had difficulty learning to read, long before dyslexia became an official diagnosis. They may not have known what to do about it, but stuff like that was observed.

One in 50 children who had odd behaviors would have been spotted and patterns would have been picked up on.

Either autism used to be very hard to see (most cases were mild enough to blend in?) or there wasn't enough of it around for anyone to spot the patterns of behavior. Take your choice.

And no, it wouldn't have been seen as okay to just hold children out of school.
 

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I have lots of family still in their 90's, they don't recall it like this. My grandma didn't mover around. She knew who was & wasn't pregnant and what happened to their kids.

My Ped was/is the same one I had in the 80's & 90's. He is in his 80's now and has spoken of this many times, he too tells a much different account.

Family members were teachers at the time too, again none recall things this way. My parents don't either. For the most part they went from K to 12 with the same kids, had kids all the same time & only see this now in their great-grandchildren, nothing in their children as described here!

So odd that so many don't recall things this way!

I would think if this was as prevalent as the PRO side keeps trying to assert, that there would have been really issues with conscription, yet there I don't see this either. I'm talking pre-Vietnam era too. So much and "the same" as today (in the PRO mindset) yet nothing about this with fulfilling conscription. Again it makes no sense and one would think the military would have been deeply concerned about this had it been the case.
 

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True about the military. Both in World War I and in World War II there was considerable concern about health problems among the recruits. Let me find some resources. https://books.google.com/books?id=P...I US recruits chronic health problems&f=false

This one from a history book mentions that 35% of potential recruits from Arkansas (a very poor state) had health problems too severe for them to join up. They mention malnutrition and malaria as examples.
 
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Yes, human memory is notoriously faulty.

There are lots of things I could have forgotten.

But dozens of weird, oddball, nerdy kids who stimmed?

Neither I nor the teachers who worked with these children would have forgotten them.

The plug-in drug was originally published in 1977. Marie Winn tracked down teachers working in kindergartens in the late 1940s and early 1950s to ask about the changes they saw when children started watching TV. These teachers remembered. The striking and unusual do stand out.
 
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Yes, human memory is notoriously faulty.

There are lots of things I could have forgotten.

But dozens of weird, oddball, nerdy kids who stimmed?

Neither I nor the teachers who worked with these children would have forgotten them.

The plug-in drug was originally published in 1977. Marie Winn tracked down teachers working in kindergartens in the late 1940s and early 1950s to ask about the changes they saw when children started watching TV. These teachers remembered. The striking and unusual do stand out.
You say that now, but it's been what? 50 years? Memory is a bad thing to rely on in the best of time, let alone after decades.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
Look, I went to school in those days. No, there were not dozens of nerdy kids around. In fact, my family of 5 were the nerdiest kids in any school. We read books. That was all it took to be a nerd back then. I can remember one other kid in one school was a bit of a nerd. Also Jewish. He also read books.

I was a close observer of other children, being rather shy and a bit anti-social. If there had been children who were dramatically different from other children, who stimmed, or who obsessed about a narrow range of subjects, I would have noticed. There weren't.

If families disappeared some of their children into institutions, you really think no one in those crowded suburbs would have noticed? And gossiped? It must have happened, but it wasn't happening to 1 in 50 or even 1 in 100.

That is a delightful article and I'm very glad that some of these elderly people are getting help. But it doesn't come up with any numbers that would suggest that 1 in 50 born in the 40s or 50s were autistic.
Children that stimmed, etc would likely not have been in "normal" classes. That would have been considered extremely abnormal in those days. They were often diagnosed as schizophrenic. And remember, the 1 in 50 is for the whole spectrum - not severe or "classic" autism. The overwhelming majority fall on the milder side.
 

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Children that stimmed, etc would likely not have been in "normal" classes. That would have been considered extremely abnormal in those days. They were often diagnosed as schizophrenic. And remember, the 1 in 50 is for the whole spectrum - not severe autism. The overwhelming majority fall on the milder side.
Okay, so the more "normal ones" would have been in regular classrooms just like these children?



Spot the kids having meltdowns, not being able to sit in their chairs or focus on classroom activities And where are the Special Ed paras?
 

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Human memory is notoriously faulty.
Are you saying recorded data is also wrong?

Our (US) military keeps real good records, has for sometime too.

Had autism been at the same numbers as we are lead to believe by the PRO side or even say 1 in 100, that would have greatly effected conscription. Had it effected the male population we surly would have had a records(S) of this beeing such a huge issue. Where is that!?

The military knew what number recruits they needed for WWI & II. Plus conscription between the end of II and Vietnam would have not been meet had the male population been that largely effected.

PRO side, where is the data to support that?

Those rejected and for what reason can be obtained and mental issues suggesting autism in the population numbers aren't there. Nor is information that the military was dealing with autism in numbers that we are being told are the same today.
 

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Children that stimmed, etc would likely not have been in "normal" classes. That would have been considered extremely abnormal in those days. They were often diagnosed as schizophrenic. And remember, the 1 in 50 is for the whole spectrum - not severe or "classic" autism. The overwhelming majority fall on the milder side.
Majority in the mild side? Source please for that one?

Again even mild, that would not have been functioning in military and we are not talking Aspergers!

If you want to mislead people into thinking most with autism have high functioning Aspergers, again provide that source too!
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Okay, so the more "normal ones" would have been in regular classrooms just like these children?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBse3l99u-Y

Spot the kids having meltdowns, not being able to sit in their chairs or focus on classroom activities And where are the Special Ed paras?
Umm...yeah? Temple Grandin went to regular elementary, middle and high school during the 50s and she didn't even speak until she was 4 years old. She was picked on for being weird, sure, as were a lot of people. She doesn't even fall into the super mild category, either (she was severe enough that she was diagnosed as a young child which was rare in those days). So people with less severe autism that what she had could certainly have done it (and did) without it being obvious autism.
 

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Children that stimmed, etc would likely not have been in "normal" classes. That would have been considered extremely abnormal in those days.
NOTE the wording here people!

As "if" stunning is now considered "normal"......the NEW normal for today!

Geeze what a awful way to phrase things Tea!
 

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Umm...yeah? Temple Grandin went to regular elementary, middle and high school during the 50s and she didn't even speak until she was 4 years old. She was picked on for being weird, sure, as were a lot of people. She doesn't fall into the super mild category, either.
You actually think the military would have NOT rejected her?

Come on! A bunch of males and the military would have taken them? They just kept this some big secret all these males?!

No way!

Provide proof please!
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Majority in the mild side? Source please for that one?

Again even mild, that would not have been functioning in military and we are not talking Aspergers!

If you want to mislead people into thinking most with autism have high functioning Aspergers, again provide that source too!
"According to the Autism Spectrum Resource Center, only 20% of people on the autism spectrum have classic autism. The overwhelming majority fall somewhere on the milder range of the spectrum."

http://www.helpguide.org/articles/autism/autism-spectrum-disorders.htm
 

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"According to the Autism Spectrum Resource Center, only 20% of people on the autism spectrum have classic autism. The overwhelming majority fall somewhere on the milder range of the spectrum."

http://www.helpguide.org/articles/autism/autism-spectrum-disorders.htm
That is an organization Tea.

I have never see CDC or govt stats that show that.

Again if soooooooo many are sooooo mild, why is there a huge increase state by state, in the need for special Ed classrooms?
 
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