[2shy2post]

So, I remember LOVING "Just So Stories" when I was growing up. I ordered a copy and began reading away to DS (4) and DD (2.5). Night three and we get to "How the Leopard Got His Spots" and run smack dab into the "N" word.

I skipped the rest of the sentence and fumbled around to make the paragraph make sense. I had no memory of that word being in the stories. I asked my mom and she said that she can't remember if she "edited" the story or what transpired when I was little.

I'm having a hard time. I don't want to "edit" their liturature ~ but I'm not quite sure I know how to explain that word, what it once meant, and how it is sometimes used now. Or if I even want to. Honestly, I don't know it's origins. I don't know how/when it came into its present use.

I'm sure there will be more of these times to come... what do you do???

 

[RedWine]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2shy2post I'm having a hard time. I don't want to "edit" their liturature ~ but I'm not quite sure I know how to explain that word, what it once meant, and how it is sometimes used now. Or if I even want to. Honestly, I don't know it's origins. I don't know how/when it came into its present use. I'm sure there will be more of these times to come... what do you do???

I don't have an answer for you regarding your kids -- but I wanted to let you know that there is a documentary out there called "The N Word" which addresses the word's origins and uses throughout history. I have ordered it from Netflix but have not yet received it.

Just thought you might want to know, maybe it will give you more knowledge with which to form an explanation for your kids..? Again, I haven't yet seen it.

 

[True Blue]

So far I edit. I was kinda surprised in Little House in the Big Woods with mention of the "*******"! I also wasn't sure how to address the beatings Pa talks about, or the spankings one of the girls gets. If they were older, I think I would feel more forthcoming about explaining it all, but at this point they have no idea about prejudices and such...or much knowledge of beatings...and I like it that way.

 

[lauracd]

At that age I would edit---when they start reading it on their own you can just be ready to explain things like prejudice in the past, how words denote negativity etc. I stopped reading the Little House books to my five year old because of some of that stuff. I am not against any piece of literature and want my kids to have access to all of it, I'm just waiting until he is ready to process that information which I'm sure is different times for different kids.

This topic is interesting to me because I'm teaching a "Banned Books" class this Fall to sophomores (college). One of the books I'm teaching at the end of the semester for fun is the first Harry Potter. It is surprising to me how many students haven't read any of them and how many are influenced by the extreme religious right's views that these books are about and/or promoting witchcraft. I hope once they read the first one they will be hooked and want to read more of them. It seems kind of crazy to me that people don't even know that Iran is enriching uranium but they think Harry Potter is a threat.

So no I think that as a parent we know when our child is or isn't ready for certain information and can edit it appropriately.

 

[Linda on the move]

Good topic!!!

My kids hate the Little House books because of these issues (esp. the sexism, religion, and discipline methods). They found them very distastful and can't understand why anyone would want to read them.

I read Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn to them last year (they were 8 and 9). I edited some (just referring to N. Jim as Jim) but not in all places because I really couldn't and leave what Twain was saying. We talked about it a lot. Often in Twain, the meaning is the opposite of the stated words, so we discussed what Twain's view of slavery and racism seemed to be. We also discussed how language changes over time.

We go back and forth between classics and modern books. I often enjoy the modern books more because these issues (racism, sexism, child abuse as discipline, etc.) are lacking, so we can just enjoy the story. I used to think that kids should be exposed to lots and lots of classics and that more modern books were "lacking" but I now think that a steady diet of classics would make a child a bit weird. The world has changed, and many social values of a hundred years ago are outdated.

Although I don't have a problem with my kids being exposed to these books, I want them exposed to other things too. I want them exposed to books that treat Native Americans like people, and shows people with all colors of skin and both genders as intelligent and capable -- books like Eldest and HP and the Chamber of Secrets that deal with the issue of racism in a way that understandable to my children and inline with my own values.

I'm more likely to pre-read a classic than a modern book, just to see what I'm getting myself into. Right now I'm pre-reading Around the World in 80 Days, which has some subtle racism, but is still a good book.

<<This topic is interesting to me because I'm teaching a "Banned Books" class this Fall to sophomores >>

What other books are you teaching? Are you doing other countries, or just the US? I love the topic of banned books!

When I was in highschool, the church my parents attended published a list of books that parents shouldn't let their children read. I used it for my reading list (with a flashlight under the covers). I read things like Catcher in the Rye and The Bell Jar that I most likely never would have found if it weren't for the list!

 

[Benji'sMom]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2shy2post So, I remember LOVING "Just So Stories" when I was growing up. I ordered a copy and began reading away to DS (4) and DD (2.5). Night three and we get to "How the Leopard Got His Spots" and run smack dab into the "N" word. I skipped the rest of the sentence and fumbled around to make the paragraph make sense. I had no memory of that word being in the stories. I asked my mom and she said that she can't remember if she "edited" the story or what transpired when I was little. I'm having a hard time. I don't want to "edit" their liturature ~ but I'm not quite sure I know how to explain that word, what it once meant, and how it is sometimes used now. Or if I even want to. Honestly, I don't know it's origins. I don't know how/when it came into its present use. I'm sure there will be more of these times to come... what do you do???

I loved that same book growing up, and I sure don't remember the N word in that story! My parents must have edited??? Anyway with a 2.5 & 4 year old I would edit because it's would be pretty much impossible, at least with the younger one, to explain what it meant or why we don't use that word. It's origins is that negre (sp?) means black in many languages. So that got changed to you-know-what in English.

 

[lauracd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linda on the move <<This topic is interesting to me because I'm teaching a "Banned Books" class this Fall to sophomores >> What other books are you teaching? Are you doing other countries, or just the US? I love the topic of banned books! When I was in highschool, the church my parents attended published a list of books that parents shouldn't let their children read. I used it for my reading list (with a flashlight under the covers). I read things like Catcher in the Rye and The Bell Jar that I most likely never would have found if it weren't for the list!

You made me

about the list of banned books from your church. I used to make banned book lists my summer reading!

Let's see (and I haven't worked out my syllabus yet so I"m not sure the order)

The Color Purple
Their Eyes Were Watching God
Slaughterhouse-Five
The Awakening
Heart of Darkness
Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone

I've got to re-read Slaughterhouse---it was a last minute change kind of in honor of Vonnegut's death (was going to do The Handmaid's Tale). I read it back in middle school (because I saw it on a banned list) and remember liking it.....

I got these titles from the ALA list of top 100 banned books of the 20th Century. Most of these still have issues that, at the very least, make people a little uncomfortable and I wanted to challenge my students to face those issues and figure out *why* they are uncomfortable.

One day my kids will hopefully read it all but right now I'll take it a step at a time.

 

[sagira]

I cannot believe Harry Potter and Heart of Darkness were or are banned.. that's crazy! And here when I was 15 my own teacher recommended a book to read that taught me all about nymphomania and other dangerous sexual addictions

My French novel I discussed in my senior year for a test taught me about oral sex and extramarital affairs

I grew up in another country, of course

 

[2shy2post]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linda on the move When I was in highschool, the church my parents attended published a list of books that parents shouldn't let their children read. I used it for my reading list

 

[lauracd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sagira I cannot believe Harry Potter and Heart of Darkness were or are banned.. that's crazy! And here when I was 15 my own teacher recommended a book to read that taught me all about nymphomania and other dangerous sexual addictions My French novel I discussed in my senior year for a test taught me about oral sex and extramarital affairs I grew up in another country, of course

Well now of course I want the names of the books!

 

[heket]

Pardon my youth librarian moment

http://www.ala.org/ala/oif/bannedboo...frequently.htm

is a list the most frequently banned 100 books from 1990 to 2000

http://www.ala.org/ala/oif/bannedboo...efault3879.htm

has other links regarding banned books (historical, by topic, etc.)

As aside:
Two summers ago, just about the release time of HP5, I was working part time in the children's dept of a library. A patron came up to ask me about the summer reading program, when she noticed our bookmarks for the soon to be released HP5. She sighed, rolled her eyes, and then said, "Oh what I would give for you [your institution] to not hand these out to the innocent minds of this community. Those books are horrid and full of satanic witchcraft. Did you know that they teach the kids how to cast spells? I think that's just awful."

Trying to remain professional, I said, "Oh, you've read them?" "No. And I have no plans to!" I returned to the the summer reading issue and held my tongue til she left.

: Disagree with them, but at least read them and know why you disagree with them is my stance.

What I took a personal chuckle at was the fact that she lamented about these "witchcraft" novels to an eclectic Wiccan who's casted a few spells in her time.

 

[SusanInItaly]

OMG that list of 100 most frequently challenged books reads like my favorites and lots of books I read in school!! What a great reading list, LOL!

 

[lara1828]

Quote:

Originally Posted by heket Pardon my youth librarian moment http://www.ala.org/ala/oif/bannedboo...frequently.htm is a list the most frequently banned 100 books from 1990 to 2000 http://www.ala.org/ala/oif/bannedboo...efault3879.htm has other links regarding banned books (historical, by topic, etc.)

oh, thankee! I've been looking for some good reading!

 

[alima]

I'm on a Banned Books Yahoo reading group. The last 3 books we've read are The Grapes of Wrath by John Steinbeck, James and the Giant Peach by Roald Dahl (

: ) and The Age of Reason by Thomas Paine (even more

: )

I use the ALA's banned and challenged book list as a to be read list for me and ds. I found a list online of the 20 most dangerous books ever published. Ds can't wait to get at them

.

I found the same kind of problem as other posters have, when I first started looking at classic children's lit to read to ds. I wasn't read to by my parents much as a child, and didn't come from a reading family (no one knows where I came from

), so I hadn't been exposed to a lot of these books before my teens or twenties.

When ds was a baby, I got a copy of Peter Pan out of the library, wanted to read it and look forward to the great times ds and I would have reading it together when he got older. I was about 20 pages in when I realized that I would NOT be reading it to him anytime before his teens, maybe. There was so much stuff I couldn't explain to a young kid, and I'm pretty open with ds about everything. Sexism, racism, child abandonment and abuse, and a really horrible attitude towards girls (that they're all mean and spiteful and only good for being mothers.)

I have read other problematic stuff to ds, but not as young as your kids are. We read Lord of the Rings right around the time of 9/11 and even ds, who was about 8 at the time, couldn't miss the really horrible racism towards Arabs and dark-skinned peoples, who are portrayed as being in league with pure evil, all the good guys have clear pale skin and blue or green eyes. This led to a lot of great discussions about racism and colonialism, and whether or not it was responsible of the filmakers who did LOTR to portray the evil Easterlings as very obviously Arab/Middle Eastern.

I usually didn't edit much, but I didn't start reading this kind of stuff to ds till he was about 7 or so. I used books like that to talk about changes in perception over time, and how cultural expectations can really colour how a person or situation is perceived. It has been surprising to me, though, just how many of these beloved books, that are usually put forward as more "wholesome" choices for children than modern kids lit, contain stuff that is questionable, if not downright offensive (and I'm really, really hard to offend

)

 

[RedWine]

Quote:

Originally Posted by heket Pardon my youth librarian moment http://www.ala.org/ala/oif/bannedboo...frequently.htm is a list the most frequently banned 100 books from 1990 to 2000 http://www.ala.org/ala/oif/bannedbooksweek/bbwlinks/Default3879.htm[/

Of Mice and Men?!?! Why would that be banned?