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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My wife nurses our 19 month old boy---32 pounds, 36" tall.

He's not fat, just very big and powerful-- you should see him push the bassinet filled with toys around the kitchen!!

He nurses like a fiend-- and he's not backing off at all, in fact he seems to be increasing in intensity-- along with all kinds of organic veggies, fruits and meats-- an entire chickenbreast in one meal!

The problem is that we want to have another child but not hamper his style-- so we just want to increase the nutrients that breastfeeding uses. We just want to make sure that the growing baby will get everything needed.

My idea is to juice organic fruits and vegetables. For instance, according to this website

http://www.juicingbook.com/vegetables/

turnips have a good deal of magnesium, which I know is important for calcium absorption, and which is depleted by excessive lactation.

Have any of you done this and/or would any of you be interested in compiling our research efforts to come up with the ideal juicing supplements? I don't want to use human-made compounds, just the good natural stuff that nature provides.

Ray

P.S. I have posted this at the Breastfeeding thread, but I wanted to include it here, since so much of the vaccination rationale is that our bodies as Natural products are not reliable/weak and must have "Man's" help, ie, vaccination to survive and thrive.
This is Evil, and must be countered with the Good knowledge of our bodies nutritional needs, that then can become part of its immune weaponry.

It's not enough to say NO to vaxes, we must know what to say YES to.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
"so we just want to increase the nutrients that breastfeeding uses. We just want to make sure that the growing baby will get everything needed."

The juices are for my wife who is exhausted and depleted.

"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance"

Ben Franklin I believe,

Ray
 

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Hilary, I disagree with you on raw fresh green vegetable juices (non-irratiated, organic of course), these IMO are an excellent dietary supplement and are important for optimal health because they are the only nontoxic vitamin, enzyme and mineral supplements.

We are in a constant state of accelerated detoxification due to our toxic conditions, our blood tends to be too acidic with waste compounds. Drinking green vegetable jucies 2 - 4 times a day, but not in conjunction with other foods, helps to neutralize the acidic compounds in the blood. Drinking green vegetable juices daily can ensure the replacement of enzymes, vitamins and minerals lost because of deficient soils, reduced through the stress of food transport from the field to our dinner plates, and that that have been leeched from our bodies from years of eating cooked foods.

It is high carbohydrate vegetable juices such as carrot or beet that raise the blood-sugar level too high, so it is important to restrict the quantity of those juices. The other problem is that even organic vegetables may contain agricultural chemicals so adding one teaspoon of clay into each quart of juice is advisable. The clay will absorb most, if not all, of the toxins that may be found in the juices.

Ray, I understood it was for your wife not your 19 month old. One word of caution if you wife is ttc'ing, limit the parsley, it is a known abortifactant (sp?), but in small quantities, ie no more than 30% combined with celery and other green vegetables it should be fine.

Edited to add: raw white cabbage juice is good for the milk supply as is raw unpasteurized cows milk if you can get it.

Deborah who has been nursing for 9 years
 

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Ray, dude, you've scared me!

Write some more poetry & relaaaaaxxxx, man!

I don't think Hilary is trying to say that she is the quintessential mother of the universe. I think what she means is that breastfeeding alone should not totally zonk a woman. There must be other factors that we aren't aware of that are contributing to her exhaustion & without addressing the picture as a whole, it isn't really feasable for us to pick out bits & pices for a recipe.

That said, I personally don't dig juices so can't offer much help there. I prefer the whole food.
 

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Hilary, the point I am making is we are always "sick" or more accurately detoxing because of the environment and the years of abuse we have given our bodies through cook foods, stress, chemicals, drugs and of course vaccines.

If we are consuming a cooked food diet then, yes we do need whole raw vegetables, they supply enzymes and fiber needed to counteract the putrefaction and resulting constipation.

A major problem with food science is that scientists view nutrients in food in only two categories, good and destroyed, but nutrients which are mutilated are not very useful or functional for creating and maintaining health. No matter how slight the damage to nutrients, digestion and utilization and assimilation are impaired and science fails to acknowledge that truth.

We need optimal nutrition even when we are "well".

Deborah
 

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Quote:
We need optimal nutrition even when we are "well".
I think we all agree on that point. The problem comes when we offer a definition of "optimal." You'll find that we all probably have different ideas as to what exactly that involves & rightly so as we're all different individuals with different needs. Nutrient demand fluctuates depending on a number of factors so, even within the same individual, the exact meaning of "optimal" nutrition has to vary quite frequently.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Hilary


The rest would be whole, little and often. Topped up with supplements, and if necessary, digestive enzymes.

Ah, but digestive enzymes and supplements are not optimal either. All supplements are merely portions of the vitamin, like bran is to grain. Supplements are always drugs and not food, even if they are derived from food. The extraction processes alter nutrients and poison them. Once a nutrient is isolated from its bioactive form, it is no longer bioactive. If it is not in food form, it is not raw or bioactive.

Most pill, powder and liquid supplements create a toxic high similar to the high created by caffine, causing a rise of hormones, such as adrenaline, that buffer, hide or arrest symptoms without resolving disease and without effecting a cure. Hormonal rushes and cesation of symptoms are usually interpreted as increased health.

Left to the body's natural abilities with the present level of toxicity, most people on cooked diets will heal disease, including cancer, 60% of the time. Many of those cures follow colds, flu, meningitis or pneumonia -- ie natural detoxifications. So any product that shows less than a 60% recovery is not only ineffective but also harmful.

I realize that my personal diet is off the chart for most people in that I eat a raw food diet comprising mainly raw meat, dairy, only raw vegetable juices and a very little raw fruit, but I totally believe this is the only type of fuel our bodies were really supposed to consume. I also don't expect to completely rid my body of toxins, it took me 40 years to get this way and will probably take me another good 40 years to reverse all the damage.

Deborah
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
...for taking the time to share your knowledge and experience. I was hoping someone like you would respond.

I haven't had time to "digest" everything you've written, but this is the next step for our family and in the division of labor that all groups must have, I'm the one that does the research.

The info on raw white cabbage juice as good and parsley as possibly being bad is the type of detailed knowledge that is priceless.

Thanks again,

Ray
 

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This might sound a little bizarre, but some of the best sources for information on juicing are reputable body building magazines. Body builders and people who lift weights especially for competitions are into juicing, to the extreme, most of the time.

Muscle and Fitness is one magazine that has plenty of information about it. It can be found on any newsstand or place where magazines are sold. The library would have it.

Of course, these people are not nursing, or even pregnant, but they do have a lot of knowledge about the juicing process.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
your notion of our being "sick" all the time is quite intriguing.

I took a look and found a section on juicing in a very good book I bought at my local Whole Foods. "Prescription for Nutritional Healing" by Phyllis A. Balch, CNC and James F. Balch, M.D.

What I noticed that confirmed your new notion of "illness" is that in their prescriptions, for every illness---measles for instance-- they say:

"Avoid processed foods."

My previous assumptions about "processing" was a very commonplace one-- refined flours, fillers, additives, etc. Although, in storing food (I try to keep the abundance of the local harvest for the off season) I have never been interested in canning, just freezing to avoid food "degradation."

The logic in the book mirrors yours , and seems so obvious in hindsight. Just FWI, I have been a heavy vit. supplement user in the past, but as my diet has improved, have moved away from it. Just to note, I can confirm the production of Vit.B by my relatively new probiotic friends because I am familiar with the color of my urine after having taken a pill supplement. I am now, of course, aware of the difference between the two.

"Since more of the healthful substances found in fruits and vegetables are being discovered all the time, no supplement pill can contain all of these compounds."

Geez, it seems so obvious now. Much like the baby formula companies trying to imitate breastmilk-- quite ludicrous.

They split juices into three categories: Green, vegetable and fruit.

"Green juices cleanse the body of pollutants and have a rejuvenating effect. Made from a variety of green vegetables, green juices are rich in chlorophyll, which helps to purify the blood, build red blood cells, detoxify and heal the body, and provide the body with fast energy. Green juices can be made with alfalfa sprouts, barley grass, cabbage, kale, dandelion greens, spinach, and other green vegetables, including wheat grass. Wheat grass juice is particularly important in any cancer treatment, especially when radiation therapy is involved." (My note: what is particularly intriguing about this nearly 800 page text is the synthesis of all types of healing)

"To sweeten and dilute your green juices, try adding fresh carrot and apple juice. (No other fruit juices should be added. Steam-distilled water is another good addition.)

What do you think about this carrot and apple juice restriction?

Also, I did see on the "juicingbook.com" site that he was very insistent on not having more than 1/4 green juice in any juice because of its potency. My book says "Although green juices have great health benefits, they should be consumed in moderation." I understand these opinions, but they seem particularly hilarious given Western Civilzation's predilection for "extremes."

The clay that you mention, I assume that this is something specific purchased somewhere? There's lots of Carolina clay in my backyard, and as much as I would have a blast using it, I don't think that's what you intend.

You do say "it is carbohydrate vegetable juices such as carrot or beet that raise the blood- sugar level too high."

How about this? I take psyllium every once in a while--- what if I mixed it into the carrot and beet? From what I understand about digestion fiber mediates the entrance of sugar into the bloodstream.

Have you heard of Dr. Richard Schulze?

Just stretching my wings,

Ray
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
...I'm "digesting" and realized something.

Much of what is described in our commonplace culture about ageing--- free radical damage, reduced digestive/ regenerative capacity, seems tied to this new equation that you are presenting.

Alison, thanks for the mention of bodybuilding, it got me thinking about my own experiences when I was in my 20's (I'm now 43)

I used to lift for about 3 hours, 3 times a week back then and had to work very hard for the gains in my strength, but my diet was haphazard, I was living in polluted N.Y.C. took some vit. supplements, but mostly Vit.C and didn't know a damn thing about the effects of antibiotics and hormones in our foods or the benefits of probiotics.

I've got a very basic weight set-up in the shop, and started lifting again recently, and was very suprised by how quickly my body responded. Supposedly, after I hit 30 all sorts of biomechanical processes became permanently altered, out of reach of my ability to intervene positively.

Now, I don't know how much of that I believe.

Wow,

Ray

P.S. I think of the epidemic of heart disease in this country, the smallpox vaccinations that were routinely given up until the mid-seventies, and the recent debacle of the smallpox vaccination with its unforseen heart/vascular complications.

How much of our ageing process is this technological madness--- everything from agribusiness to processed foods to vaccination-- which completely fills our lives?

I won't give up my tools or computer or car or ...., but I think I'm becoming a Luddite!!
 

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Ray,

I am no expert really! But I will answer your questions from my perspective as best I can.

My notion of sick is our bodies have been totally contaminated through environmental pollution, cooked foods and chemicals that we can never be in "perfect" health. My aim is to try and get my body back to optimal health to the best extent I can which is why I believe the Primal Diet devised by Aajonus Vonderplanitz is the best way for me to do this right now. I am not sick with any particular dis-ease but I was vaccinated as a child (not nearly to the extent that children are today, of course), I have been subject to a questionable diet from babyhood -- Ribena in my bottle (Hilary will know what that is!), processed, low-nutritional value foods, exposure to mercury and other toxic heavy metals, I also have a great deal of petrochemicals in my body (my father was a race-car driver), the list goes on. So I can't afford to do things in moderation, I don't think anyone who truly wants optimal health can.

You need to view my reasonings for the food choices I made through the diet I have chosen. Raw fresh green vegetable juices provide a way to manage the toxicity in my body caused by eating cooked foods, they provide for proper blood alkalinity without alkalizing the acidic parts of the digestive tract.

Because of the toxic condition of the body it is in an accelerated rate of detoxification, our blood tends to be too acidic with waste compounds. That acidic condition often causes cravings for too much fruit and cooked starches, as well as lethargy, irritability, and important for me, repulsion towards raw meats (a major part of my diet). The raw green juice helps to neutralize the acidic compounds in the blood, but does not over alkalinize the intestines.

I limit my intake of high-carb vegetable and fruit juices because the rise in blood-sugar levels makes me too emotional. Once the blood-sugar levels have dropped, I find it leaves me emotionally, mentally fatigued, sleeping, and irritable and even somewhat depressed. So I never juice carrot, but if you would like to, I would limit the amount to 10% of the total juice. To sweeten my juice I add some raw, unheated honey -- it must be unheated because over 93 degrees the insulin-like substance in the honey begins to degrade and is destroyed at 100 degrees. Honey heated over 104 degrees is radical sugar.

I rarely ever drink fruit juices now. The only way I eat fruit is with raw fat, actually raw cream as it helps with the digestion and helps prevent manic, hyperactive, depression reactions. From my understanding, the over emotionality is caused by low blood protein and blood-fat levels which disrupts the the sugar levels, irritates tissue, and leeches fats from the nervous system, causing lesions in the myelin. If you do not get over emotional or manic within 24 hours of eating fruit, you may be fine with some fruit juice but I wouldn't go over-board.

You can buy sun-dried clay. I am sure you can get it online. Not sure where DH got ours from.

I have not heard of Dr Schulze.

Deborah
 

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Ray, You can also buy bentonite clay easily (@ Whole Foods in bulk) and take on a daily basis. It pulls the heavy metals from the system. Check out this website for more info! http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/clay.html
I equate vegetable juices with cleansing. And anytime that a pregnancy is possible, (as mentioned) you want to be SUPER careful about any kind of cleansing routine. It could be beneficial right now, get her system really clean, and then when you start ttc, back off the juice plan. By then her body will be primed to efficiently absorb all the nutrients that whole foods has to offer. JMO
 

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Hi folks! Since gilnikche has had her precious little baby boy I'm helping watch over things in the Vax board. I've moved this thread to Health and Healing as the focus of the discussion seems to be more of the H&H nature.

Cool topic.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
...of a Breastfeeding discussion and highlights the problems of the knowledge system that we live in that "fractures" info into little pieces and puts them into compartments.

But I digress.

I'm still assessing the Aajonus Vonderplanitz info, though I find it interesting that I always enjoyed what some call "Steak Tartare (sp?) but in my recipe has always been simply raw ground beef.

The major change in its quality has been the full move to organic beef from our local Whole Foods market.

Also, just to note, after going shopping at the Farmers market this weekend we made an enormous salad with perhaps 10 different greens (and organic sweet peppers) with my new favorite-- sorrell-- an amazingly lemony flavor-- that according to a French friend of mine who grew up on a farm in France has been used in their culture as a de-wormer.

After the meal, both my wife and I had this intense feeling of energy for the rest of the evening-- I was going to 2 AM gettin' stuff done.

Ironically, I don't know exactly what the combinations were-- one of the salad mixes has African Marigolds in it-- but the power of GREEN was definitely verified and we didn't even have to juice it.

I've been doing some searching and discovered this great list of

15 POWER NUTRIENTS

http://www.lightparty.com/Health/15PowerNutrients.html

Let food be your medicine and medicine be your food

( Hippocrates)

Ray
 

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Ray, think it is great you are looking into the work of Aajonus, he is a most amazing person and an activist too! I am always hesitant to mention him because he goes against just about everything that we have been led to believe about food and nutrition, and is quite a stretch even for those who see themselves as alternative.

I highly recommend you get and read his book "We Want to Live", it changed my life!

There are also some fascinating tapes of his workshops around, but I am not sure how readily available they are. If you want to PM me, I can give you the email of a friend of mine who has hosted several workshops and who I think sells the tapes, although they weren't mentioned on his website. The tapes go much further than the book and I found them to be really helpful.

Enjoy the journey!

Deborah who happens to be chowing down on some raw tenderloin as she types this.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Deborah,

I'm a book guy and am buying "We Want to Live" with two others that I need for a wild plant identification class I'm taking here in central N.C. (if there's anything left after the hurricane).

The teacher is a "Native" Medicine Man of N.C., Will Endres. I'm looking at as much "alternative" info as I can find.

The epidemic of bodily malfunction in our Modern Western Civ. is absolutely absurd given the relatively sanitary conditions--- compared to even just 100 years ago--- of our lifestyles.

We are what we eat may be trite, but it is the absolute TRUTH.

Gimme suschi but hold the rice!

Ray
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by goodpapa


I'm a book guy and am buying "We Want to Live" with two others that I need for a wild plant identification class I'm taking here in central N.C. (if there's anything left after the hurricane).
I can't wait to read read your review of the books, if you get a chance to post them.

Deborah
 
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