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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was reading another thread about a guy who was constantly yelling at his kids while staying at a family members house. The OP commented about how his parenting was starting to affect everyone else's parenting.<br><br>
Well, my neighbors <span style="text-decoration:underline;">never</span> stop screaming at their kids. I mean it's awful and constant. Today I was just so done with it and it made me get all uptight and I felt like <i>I</i> was just going to yell.<br><br>
I do feel like it is affecting my everday thoughts of parenting no matter how much I try to ignore it.<br><br>
Is there anything I can do about it? Or do I just need to get over it and try my best to ignore it? Has anyone else been in this situation?<br><br>
I told DH maybe I should just call CPS and tell them I'm concerned so the people get a visit and then maybe they will knock it down a notch so they don't get the negative attention. (I'm sure they will know it was us that called since we have prior issues with them.)
 

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oh man, that is a tough position. It's not like they have a noisy dog and you can just go over there and say "hey can you please shut your dog up.." Do you live in an apartment or a house? If its an apartment i would complain to the manager. Otherwise, you could try leaving a note on their door, asking them to be considerate with their noise level in a polite way. ?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
No, we live in a house. Our houses are close but that's just the thing. We can be towards the garage side and hear them at the opposite end of their house. So there are two 1100 sq. ft houses separating us with all the walls and everything.<br><br>
Ugh.<br><br>
But, maybe an anonymous letter? Or is that bad? I just don't want to be confrontational with these guys. We have another issue with them as well...a <a href="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=926891" target="_blank">pool safety issue</a> that I posted over in Family Safety.<br><br>
We really are not being picky or whatever...we have always been great friends with all of our neighbors (and we've had a lot from moving often). These people are just seriously whack! But, if you consider where we are living....well, anyway....
 

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Given the twin issues, I'd call CPS and mention the pool issue in your phone call.
 

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Harsh post Gendenwitha.<br>
Nothing like trying to find a peaceful solution on MDC only to be sweared at.<br><br>
OP, I do sympathize with your situation. The only advice (having had neighbour problems) is to kill them with kindness. Befriend them, their kids, bring them coookies...<br><br>
Good luck!
 

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What are they yelling? Are they name calling, swearing, threatening or just making a lot of noise?<br><br>
The second is cultural; the first is not.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Gendenwitha</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/11628926"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I'd say mind your own %^&* business. Ever consider that yelling is a cultural or class difference and it doesn't mean they don't love their kids any less than you do? (I noted the "considering where we are living" comment. So I'm sure you're aware of a "class difference" even if you're too polite to say it more bluntly.) Not to mention that there's nothing illegal about it. CPS caseworkers are overworked as it is dealing with real issues.<br><br>
Keep in mind if you knew that for the 2-4 hours a caseworker would put in doing paperwork driving over there once or twice depending on when they were home, talking to them looking around at the pool that they removed the ladder to and the non-existent fence that's more of a landlord-tenant issue... they could be spending that time following up on a case where a child who they know has been beaten in the past was given back to her birth family and it's her job to check in on her... you really think you're not wanting to cause a confrontation over the decibel level is more important than that caseworker doing the other things he/she needs to get done?<br><br>
Why is it that some people, particularly women are so terrified of confrontation? You realize it's not just confronting the neighbors that is your problem, you're so terrified of the idea of confrontation that people who communicate by yelling automatically = scary. Figure out what your issues are, and try to separate them from who your neighbors are.</div>
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yelling is not a class difference. That is just like saying only poor people do drugs. Yelling is a parenting defect. Maybe you are a yeller and that's why you think I should mind my own business but when someone is yelling so loud that you can hear it 2 houses away they are bringing there business to me.<br><br>
And no, I'm not afraid of confrontation...if you only knew me. It's just that we have other issues with these guys already.<br><br>
And their pool issue is not a renter/tenant issue. Their kids could drown and so could mine b/c the fence separating our backyards is not made to enclose a pool.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>sebandg'smama</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/11629354"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Harsh post Gendenwitha.<br>
Nothing like trying to find a peaceful solution on MDC only to be sweared at.<br><br>
OP, I do sympathize with your situation. The only advice (having had neighbour problems) is to kill them with kindness. Befriend them, their kids, bring them coookies...<br><br>
Good luck!</div>
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That's a great idea.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>chfriend</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/11629725"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">What are they yelling? Are they name calling, swearing, threatening or just making a lot of noise?<br><br>
The second is cultural; the first is not.</div>
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It's all sort of stuff..."Get out of my kitchen!" "Stop Yelling!" There is so much more....I mean it isn't terribly awful but I just imagine that if a parent is going to the extremes of yelling that often, everday that there are some other frustration/anger issues that would lead to hitting.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Gendenwitha</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/11628926"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I'd say mind your own %^&* business. Ever consider that yelling is a cultural or class difference and it doesn't mean they don't love their kids any less than you do? (I noted the "considering where we are living" comment. So I'm sure you're aware of a "class difference" even if you're too polite to say it more bluntly.) Not to mention that there's nothing illegal about it. CPS caseworkers are overworked as it is dealing with real issues.</div>
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Class difference?????????????????? Class difference??????????????<br><br>
Are you serious?????<br><br>
Cultural differences?????????????<br><br>
What?????????????????????<br><br>
Excessive yelling is often included as emotional abuse in state guidelines as a reason for CPS to get involved.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Why is it that some people, particularly women are so terrified of confrontation? You realize it's not just confronting the neighbors that is your problem, you're so terrified of the idea of confrontation that people who communicate by yelling automatically = scary. Figure out what your issues are, and try to separate them from who your neighbors are.</td>
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Yelling is terrifying. It is violent and scary.<br><br>
I would NEVER confront someone who has so little regard for other people that I heard the yelling through multiple walls on several occasions.<br><br>
This has nothing to do with class or culture.<br><br>
It has to do with ABUSE!!!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Yeah, right now as I type the mom just got done yelling and now it sounds like the 2 yr. old is crying bloody murder...The kind of cry that comes from being hit.<br><br>
I just don't think that the yelling that is going on is stopping at the yelling.<br><br>
I mean, when I first wrote this post I was thinking more along the lines of their yelling making me want to lose it. (It's been over a year that this has been going on and of course it's summer so the windows are open.) But now I'm thinking there may be more of a concern for their children's safety.<br><br>
It's just hard to make an assumption about abuse when it does bring law enforcement or other agencies into their life but I guess it's better to err on the side of safety.<br><br>
I mean if someone called CPS on me and they came to my house I would have no worries and wouldn't even think twice about it since I know there is no reason for them to be there...but if there was a reason I would probably reconsider my parenting tactics.
 

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I had CPS show up on my doorstep once and say they were there because "there was a lot of yelling" at our house. I laughed in his face. I then proceeded to tell him about my Autistic child who yells <b>non-stop</b>, and then how it elevates all the noise in our house... as in... my other children would yell to get over his noise and to communicate to him. And, while I tried as best I could to be calm and patient, I sometimes had to raise my voice to be heard too and bring everyone back on focus. (not mean yelling- just attention grabbing raised voice to get over them so they heard me)<br><br>
I guess to anyone who may just randomly walk by, or not know the situation may think we are a yelling family. So not the case.<br><br>
BTW, the CPS worker laughed right along with me. He then complimented me and said he drove by my house every day to work and saw me playing attentively with my kids all the time.<br><br>
That was 3 years ago... fortunately, my DS has converted his yelling to noise making and vocal stimming words he likes.
 

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Agree that "yelling" (which means different things to different people, I think) can be a culture-based thing. But that doesn't sound like all that's going on here -- yelling at the kids, frequently in anger, all the time, child crying -- seems it would relate more to anger problems than culture.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>janasmama</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/11630239"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">yelling is not a class difference. That is just like saying only poor people do drugs.</div>
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It's only comparable if you assume that yelling is a negative. You're the one who's being classist by comparing yelling to doing drugs, calling it a parenting defect and saying, 'well what do you expect when we have to live in this kind of neighborhood.'<br><br>
And there's nothing wrong with saying "poor people are more likely to do drugs" if you have the facts to back it up. (Actually research indicates that middle class kids are more likely to experiment with drugs but poor kids are more likely to become addicted.)<br><br>
I'm saying from my experience growing up and spending the first years of our marriage in poor and working-class settings, but raising my kids in a mixed-income neighborhood and observing differences there and with the upper-middle class private schools they've gone to, and just graduating school with an emphasis in psychology and economics (including a lot of study on class difference)... yes <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325&tag=motheringhud-20&location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FUnequal-Childhoods-Class-Race-Family%2Fdp%2F0520239504%2Fref%3Dpd_bbs_sr_1%3Fie%3DUTF8%26s%3Dbooks%26qid%3D1215365380%26sr%3D8-1" target="_blank">there is a difference in parenting</a>. One of those observed differences is that working-class families care more about their kids behavior then they do their feelings, and along those lines, tend to yell more and use physical discipline more. (The flip side to that is the middle-class families seem to care more about their children's feelings than their behavior and will speak sweetly and gently even as their child is being a terror.)<br><br>
You said yourself that it's all kinds of stuff and "isn't that awful." It sounds to me that they just communicate at a higher decibel level. Tell me what is so inherently defective about that? One family I know communicated that way because their mom was hard of hearing. When that daughter had her own kids, guess what? She's still a yeller by habit. Because it is the norm in their house, the kids don't think anything of it. If your child came to live with them it <i>would</i> be horrible for him/her but only because it's not a norm they grew up with.<br><br>
I was talking to an acquaintance of mine the other day who said in his family (blue-collar Irish immigrant) they shout things out and are done with it, and in his first wife's family they kept things to themselves, never wanting to "upset" anyone. When they went to marriage counseling she starting bringing up things that happened YEARS ago that he thought were over & done with that she was still upset over. So I wouldn't go assuming that your way of raising kids is inherently right, even if you do find a messageboard of like-minded people to commiserate with.
 

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op- go with your instinct. from what i read you think it sounds like yelling and hitting. go ahead and call. CPS workers are paid to investigate. all kinds of abuse. i yell sometimes, to be heard over the din etc. however, you are the one who is actually hearing it. go with your instincts.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>LionessMom</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/11630999"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">op- go with your instinct. from what i read you think it sounds like yelling and hitting. go ahead and call. CPS workers are paid to investigate. all kinds of abuse. i yell sometimes, to be heard over the din etc. however, you are the one who is actually hearing it. go with your instincts.</div>
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There is a difference between making a "report" which has to be investigated, and offering information. A woman who works in the field was explaining to me that sometimes she calls up and says, this is only an informational call, I don't want to make a report, but this is the x behavior I've observed. Then if that informational call is put together with other information it can turn into an investigation if they think it warrants it.<br><br>
Keep in mind though how busy and overworked caseworkers are. I'll admit I've got a bias. A woman in my class was an already overburdened caseworker when she had a bunch of cases dumped on her from another worker who wasn't doing his job. He hadn't checked in on a family in months. Before she could get to it the child was killed and SHE was the caseworker 'who hadn't checked in on them.' To me, calling on something as insignificant as yelling, when they have confirmed cases of abuse and neglect they don't have enough hours in the day to deal with just clogs the machine.<br><br>
I've worked the phone lines for CPS, and it makes me sick that 9 out of 10 calls are fighting ex-spouses, nosy neighbors, and feuding in-laws, calling about parents that are not going to win mother or father of the year, but they're not putting the child in danger either. A good thing to remember is they work in conjunction with the police. CPS does not enforce good parenting, they enforce the law. If a parent doesn't cross that line there's nothing CPS can or will (or IMO should) do.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
What better way for CPS to get confirmed cases of abuse other than people who suspect abuse calling them?<br><br>
This yelling isn't just loud communicating. I am loud and my voice carries. We also raise our voice to grab attention of our children, for instance when one of them needs to stop instantly...we are showing distress in our voice. Or maybe I'm in the kitchen and I'm calling dd from her room.<br><br>
Even the neighbor from across the street came out this morning and asked us what the heck was going on over there...it sounded like abuse. My dd screams or yells when she doesn't want something or like it but it's not an hourly thing and the tone of the cry or scream is different.<br><br>
This yelling is excessive and to be honest, I've tried to ignore it so I haven't listened to <i>what</i> they say, it's <i>how</i> it's being said and the tone. I have two of my own children to attend to all day and I try my best to be a good mother considering the background I have come from.<br><br>
Thanks though, I will just need to follow my instincts. And it's true...to feel like we shouldn't call CPS just b/c we believe they are overworked isn't a good thing.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Gendenwitha</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/11630915"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;"><br>
I was talking to an acquaintance of mine the other day who said in his family (blue-collar Irish immigrant) they shout things out and are done with it, and in his first wife's family they kept things to themselves, never wanting to "upset" anyone. When they went to marriage counseling she starting bringing up things that happened YEARS ago that he thought were over & done with that she was still upset over.</div>
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This part I agree with. In my family we were all loud, we yelled, we got things out in the open and it was done with. In my DH's family they were all prim and proper and let things fester until it blew up in their faces. It took DH and I years to really get our marriage to a good place because in my mind yelling and getting it all out in the open was the way to do it and in his opinion the right way to handle problems was to sweep them under the rug. I am still a loud and emotional person but my kids are used to it and I am not being abusive. For an example if my son was trying to get water from the tap and accidentally sprayed water all over the floor I could be heard saying (in a loud voice but not yelling in anger), "For crying out loud, DS, are you trying to give a drink to the whole darn kitchen while you're at it. Get a towel and wipe it up!" To some here that would sound very abusive and they would be imagining my poor son cowering in the corner terrified. In reality he would usually respond (in a loud voice, not yelling), "Okay, okay the cup slipped! I'll clean it in a minute" and all would be forgotten two seconds later. To someone who is not loud like that it would seem I was being mean. They would be more likely to say (in a sweet little voice), "Oh look, DS, you've spilled a little water. That's okay. Would you like to help me clean it up?"<br>
I don't know this family - maybe they are abusive, maybe not. But unless I were hearing someone constantly yelling really meanly or saying horrible things to their kids (like in the water example above I WOULD consider it abusive if I yelled, "Look what you did you idiot! You got everything all wet! Clean up the damn floor right now!") I certainly would not be calling CPS.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Heavenly</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/11631692"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">But unless I were hearing someone constantly yelling really meanly or saying horrible things to their kids (like in the water example above I WOULD consider it abusive if I yelled, "Look what you did you idiot! You got everything all wet! Clean up the damn floor right now!") I certainly would not be calling CPS.</div>
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Uh, yeah, like I said...I'm loud too...me and my sister are famous for our voices so I'm definitely not picking on loud mouths. These people are yelling, shouting, screaming...whatever you want to call it. And something like "Clean up the damn floor right now!" is something you would expect to hear....I'm not sure if they call their kids names like idiot but like I said...when yelling gets to this level, I find it difficult to believe that name-calling and/or physical abuse doesn't become part of it.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>janasmama</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/11631754"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Uh, yeah, like I said...I'm loud too...me and my sister are famous for our voices so I'm definitely not picking on loud mouths. These people are yelling, shouting, screaming...whatever you want to call it. And something like "Clean up the damn floor right now!" is something you would expect to hear....I'm not sure if they call their kids names like idiot but like I said...when yelling gets to this level, I find it difficult to believe that name-calling and/or physical abuse doesn't become part of it.</div>
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Sadly, even if they are yelling in what you or I might consider an abusive manner CPS is unlikely to do anything with it. If you feel you should make a report then do so but it will likely not result in anything. That is the sad truth. I grew up in a home with a lot of abusive yelling but no one ever said anything to my dad (the yeller), at least as far as I know. The kind of yelling is definitely damaging to a child.
 

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We had people above us who had hours long screaming fits. Sometimes it was the mom/kid, sometimes the mom/boyfriend, sometimes all three of them. A couple of times it sounded like things were being thrown/slammed around as well. I started calling the police every time it happened and telling them it sounded like things were getting pretty violent (which it did, I wasn't lying). After a few visits from the police things calmed down.<br><br>
It's pretty pathetic that if it sounds like a man is going to kick the hell out of his girlfriend the police come over right away, but if it's just a mom throwing shit and screaming at her kids for a few hours, nothing comes of it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>maliceinwonderland</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/11632170"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">It's pretty pathetic that if it sounds like a man is going to kick the hell out of his girlfriend the police come over right away, but if it's just a mom throwing shit and screaming at her kids for a few hours, nothing comes of it.</div>
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Yeah.<br><br>
I was kind of thinking that calling would do exactly what it did for you. I'm not putting aside the effects this type of parenting has on the children but I can't change these people and this yelling (I'm hoping there is no hitting b/c even if there is, unless it's bruising it will go on whether I call or not.<br><br>
But, it's that it's really intrusive on the lives of other people even if we aren't standing in their house or them in ours.
 
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