the temperaments?

I totally agree!

If the temperaments are used as "labels", that's not good. If the *concepts* that come from the subect are the focus, it can actually work nicely. It's one of the most effective models to more smoothly deal with different personalities that I've seen. I think it can be taken TOO far. Some of the books I've seen are just so detailed, I hope that they really aren't used in any strict sense.

I love the Winnie the Pooh comparison. Eeh-yore is the melancholic, broody. Deep Thinker. He's more extreme than most real life melancholics, pessimistic, resigned, complaining, glass-is-always-half-empty, everything-always-happens-to-me-but-don't-worry-I'm-used-to-it.

Tigger is the sanguine, bouncy, flits from this-to-that, feet seldom touching the ground, engagingly sunny, scattered, always drawn to "join in" if there's fun to be had, or start some when there isn't

Winnie is the phlegmatic, luvs his comfey treats and his cozy home, and likes to feel *planted* in a soft and warm spot, and enjoy life from there. He's essentially inertial--it takes a lot of will and energy to move from one thing to another, but he's very concentrated and diligent when he's comfortably planted

And Rabbit is the choleric, fast moving and competitive, even combative, impatient, Type-A, firey temper sometimes, is comfortable "being in charge".

I've participated in many school functions where the students are 'grouped' with the temperaments in mind, and it's a kick-and-a-half seeing these tendencies played out in the groups. (The children are never taught anything about these labels, at least they shouldn't be imo). The way the concepts are meant to help the teacher is in better understanding how to deal with different personalities in the classroom. A melancholic and a choleric will probably have very different reactions to a particular type of discipline, for example. That's just one example--as a parent of four very different children, I certainly recognized myself that I could do or say one thing and my two very different children could respond to that one thing in two completely opposite directions. The teacher is expected to be mindful of how his or her own temperament impacts the interactions with and between the teacher and children in the class.

Children's temperaments shift quite a bit while growing up, and age enters into it as well. Most small children are relatively sanguine, most elderly relatively phlegmatic, for example.

Speaking as a librarian, melancholic tendency kids love the Lemony Snicket books.

One teacher told me a story that happened during the class farm trip. She (a parent in this situation, not a teacher) was working in the farm garden harvesting herbs. The child assigned to her was a very melancholic kid, a real eeyore. He was griping about everything, too hot, too cold, too sunny, too boring, and not doing any work. She decided to play to his temperament. "Tell me about the worst thing that every happened to you." He cheered right up, started telling the story, and absent-mindedly began following her lead and harvesting the herbs. She continued asking questions about disasters in his life and he was totally happy, and very absorbed.

I love this story.

My granddaughter has strong choleric tendencies, but is also sanguine much of the time. My grandson (really too young to tell) is very sanguine, but oh does he love his comforts. He is very specific about his stuffed animals and being tucked in just right at bed time.

Deborah

This isn't really an explanation of the temeraments per se, but I was just talking to DS's EC teacher at Waldorf about this last week....

She sees the temperaments as a tool to understanding how your child might be different/similar to you. For example, DH and I are both pretty phlegmatic. We're both former literature majors and like nothing better than reading the newspaper, hanging out at home, etc. Our son (even at 10 months we can tell) is really really active, and when I was joking about where in the world he came from because DH and I were reportedly both very placid babies, and she suggested that maybe DS brought balance to the household. Additionally, she captured mine and my mother's relationship in a nutshell: my mother is a really active person... just does stuff rather than pondering long and hard about it... and it's always caused a lot of conflict between the two of us. "Oh" the teacher said, "You must never have lived up to her expectations." And that really was our relationship in a nutshell.

So, to me, as a parent, the whole temperament thing is just a reminder that people (including one's kid) are different, and have different ways of going about things. I can see how grouping them could be helpful, especially in a classroom, although I think such generalizations have limited usefulness as we are all, of course, unique.

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This is so on the money. I discovered this with one of my children (years before I was a WE parents, and had never heard of these temperaments). When she was dissatisfied, unhappy, hurt, anything like that, trying to cheer her up would make for a very ugly situation. Allowing her to feed into the feeling actually helped her find a way out of it. Complete opposite of me, so I wasn't exactly quick to catch on.

Now if you deal with a choleric (impatient with complainers), the "Hey-buddy! Snap-Out-Of-It!" appoach can be just what the doctor ordered. They can feel very self-empowered and upright to put things to the side and move on.

I love the Winnie the Pooh comparisons!

This whole discussion also helps me see a bit more how mine and DS's personalities clash sometimes, but also perhaps how our children are bringing some balance to our home.

DS has always seemed too "old" for his years to me; can be quite serious, intense. He is always the observer, slow to get involved in things. He is very cautious physically and one "issue" we deal with is how he somatizes absolutely everything, so he is very often crying about leg pain, stomach ache, headache, etc and is often very very tired. He can also be a lot of fun and get quite wild, but it often ends in tears. He is incredibly thoughtful and insightful.

Wonderful as he is, I have struggled with his personality many times. I like to be active, sociable, physical. I like to play with kids, have a good time, have fun. I can't stand being told what to do all the time!

Now, DD has come along and is already totally different from DS. A true tigger, or maybe a rabbit in the making! Very active, bouncy, sociable, playful. I have to admit that while she is much more of a handful than DS and takes a lot more energy, I also have more fun with her. She also has a fiery temper and I'm sure will make for a strong willed teenager!

Of course it's such early days and it can all change but DS has pretty much always been this way and it's interesting to get any insights into him because he's so unlike most other kids.

I'm rememebreing now that when Ds was 3 yrs old and in waldorf playgroup the teacher told us there were only two personalities (for that age I'm assuming); "sparky" and "melancholy". She wouldn't tell us which our son was. I found that pretty annoying.

Also the teachers at our particular school make big distinctions between the "loud, wild boys" and the "quiet good little girls". : Maybe it's a wierd old fashioned english thing. It also makes no sense since there are some pretty wild girls in there and some calm, gentle boys; which is exactly what attracts me to the school, the fact that the gender differences are not so socially fixed.

Ok, I'm going OT on my own thread now

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I've been finding the boy/girl thing pretty interesting now that I'm a grandmother with one of each.

My gd is now six. She is a very strong-willed, domineering, bossy character. Also warm-hearted and affectionate and lively. She is just beginning to be able to control her tendency towards wild, uncontrollable tantrums. She is physically active, loves climbing trees, hiking, riding her bike, is taking dance lessons and, for a while, horseback riding lessons. She also loves clothes, especially if they are sparkly or have frills of some sort. She has a pair of blue jeans she adores with lace ruffles on the bottom (I kid you not).

Her little brother is 2 1/2. From birth he was a much easier child, gentle, easy-going, affectionate, cuddly. Only oddity was his early insistence on sleeping by himself. He just migrated out of his crib into his own little bed and adores being able to climb in and out on his own. He is also a physically active child, with excellent balance and control. What I've been finding rather startling is that just lately he is beginning to push limits on a physical level. Speeding downhill on his tricycle for example. He also loves trucks and cars and mechanical devices of any variety. Oh, he also likes clothes, especially if they have ornamentation.

So, what I'm finding interesting is that there do seem to be some inborn boy traits versus inborn girl traits, although they are fairly narrow. In this case, the enthusiasm for taking risks, versus the greater emotional volatility.

I agree with you in disliking the teachers categorization of the girls vs the boys. Neither true nor fair.

Deborah