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Discussion Starter #1
a lot of you were repeating yourselves to your children over and over again. I wonder, is that only in theory, and (IF you could yell) or do you really do that? Cuz I dont repeat myself. I dont think we are "supposed" to repeat ourselves. Am I wrong?<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/duck.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Duck">: <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/duck.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Duck">:
 

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Seems to me that few of us have the skill to really hear ourselves speak to our children.<br><br>
I'm not saying you're wrong - but perhaps just not perceiving the true situation. A tape recorder in your kitchen at meal times would clarify, I'm sure. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/wink1.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="wink1"><br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/duck.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Duck">:
 

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well... to accurately "discipline," One must make sure the children follow through w/ what you ask of them. and saying "please stop that, plese stop that, please stop that" tells me that someone isn't getting off their keister to make something happen. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/winky.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Wink">
 

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Sure, but the yelling thread was just a vent thread. It was not a word-for-word transcription of what any person actually said. Why did you feel compelled to point out that you don't repeat yourself like they do?
 

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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">to accurately "discipline," One must make sure the children follow through w/ what you ask of them</td>
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or you could try the "respect them and set age and developmentally appropriate expectations while honoring their need to explore" approach.<br><br>
I don't subscribe to your personal opinion of what accurate discipline means I don't think <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">
 

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I personally think repitition can be a valuable thing as much as it can be an unvaluable thing<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/winky.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Wink"> . Young children can benefit from repitition especially. Maybe not the kind were you say the same exact thing 5 times in a row, but saying the same thing in a different way is sometimes helpful to them so they have a better chance at getting what you are saying. And when certain behaviors are repeated, ex. hitting, yelling, demanding, you should repeat to them each time what it is about that behavior you find unacceptable. I do think that being off your butt is a good thing<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"> just as much as being on your butt can be a good thing, ex. cuddling, reading books, coloring, playing a game all happen while on the butt regularly.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">well... to accurately "discipline," One must make sure the children follow through w/ what you ask of them.</td>
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Maybe you can explain what exactly you mean by this. I think I agree with CC here. This sounds very controlling in print, yk, without examples of what you mean. I like to remember my children are individuals with an agenda independent of my own. So doing what I ask of them may not be on their agenda at that moment and I am more than willing to communicate with them to find out why, what, when, etc. I'm most inclined to intervene if someone is liely to be hurt, is getting hurt, or if property is going to be damaged. I want my children to follow through with what they believe to be right, not with something they are being forced to do. I believe thay are learning when they choose their own actions much more so than when someone is imposing upon them what they must do.<br>
Also I feel that so many parents place an expectation of perfection on their children. Be perfect or else. I can not attain perfection at being respectful(which IMO is the most important thing I could ask from myself or my children) why should I expect my children to be perfect at it? And if they don't attain that perfection I what? Somehow <b>make sure</b> they do?<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/shrug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="shrug">
 

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first of all, noone mentioned perfection. what I mean is If you say "move over, cuz there is no room for mommy in the bed" then they don't, and look at you like "what are you gonna do about it?" MOVE THEM OVER. not MOve over honey. honey can you move over? honey please move over.. baby girl, please move over so that mommy can sit down sweetie pie honey bunches w/ sugar on top. I was never saying I was better than anyone else, and I never said that "my is the way and nothing else." Heck, I'm new at this, and I just know that I'm not going to let my c hildren openly disobey *yes there is a such thing* and get away with it. I'll make what I asked of them happen IN A RESPECTFUL WAY. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/loveeyes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Loveeyes">: a mom in the store going "shawna come here.. shawwwwwnnnnnaaaaaaa (sweety voice) shawna come here sweetie. shawna- SHAWNA" is permissive, NOT GD.<br><br>
oh oh, also!!1 I DO repeat myself, but that is when I'm being permissive and not off my butt <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/wink1.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="wink1">
 

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Sometimes I forget things & need a reminder. Should someone come over to me & physically enfore what they want? I am no more of a person than my child.
 

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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">I'll make what I asked of them happen IN A RESPECTFUL WAY. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/loveeyes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Loveeyes">:</td>
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So, what's the secret? I'd love to hear more about what/how you would <i>make</i> this happen? When I hear the word make, I envision something less than gentle.<br><br>
I guess I must be permissive, b/c I do often repeat myself. In my household, there's a lot going on, lots of noise and lots of people vying for each other's attention. Many times, if I don't get the response I had hoped for, it's on me---I didn't phrase it in a clear or positive or even understandable way--ex: today w/my 3 yo: E, please don't leave the sandwich on the front porch. No response. Few mins later...Hey, could you please not leave the sandwich on the porch? Nothing. I realized he had no idea where I wanted him to put the sandwich or why is probably was even a big deal--certainly not more important than looking for grasshoppers!...then I asked, hey, could you please put your sandwich inside before the ants get it? Immediately, he went and grabbed the rest of his sandwich and took it inside. Instead of asking for what I didn't want---I asked for what I did <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"><br><br>
I don't like being commanded/demanded to do something. I imagine my dc are the same way <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"> I feel much more comfortable with requests...real requests that I'm okay to hear a "no" to. Instead of telling someone what to do, I find it's more agreeable for all involved to make a request and give the "why" so it's not "because I said so" or "because that's the way it is." It's not always like this around my house...I'm human and I was raised in a very different environment. I find when I'm stressed---I tend to make more demands, which don't feel good to me, and I know my dc sure notice the difference.
 

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I'd like to think that what you're talking about is "get off your butt" parenting, but there's something about the overall tone of your posts (here and on other threads) I've seen that doesn't quite seem to jive with it...I can't quite put my finger on it, but you seem to be coming from a more authoritarian viewpoint than most of us here ( I'm one of the more firm mamas here, but I consider myself authoritative, not authoritarian), and that's something many of us don't easily identify with.<br><br>
I do practice GOYB parenting, but not because I think my child is "open disobeying", or because I think he needs to do whatever I say whenever I say it, but because I find that both he and I are more receptive and less stressed out at first and second requests rather than repeated ones. And, if I ask him something and he doesn't respond, my usual first thing is to ask him if he heard me (NOT in a rude, "DID YOU HEAR WHAT I JUST SAID?" overbearing tone, but more of a "hey, head's up" tone), and if it looks to me like he is too involved in whatever he's doing, or he didn't hear me, then I go over to him and make sure we're making eye contact, etc. and then I do help him do whatever it is I asked him to do (or stop doing) if necessary . And more often than not, he readily helps me....but sometimes when he doesn't I just drop it if it's not that important. Sometimes I don't feel like doing things, either.<br><br>
I think that your posts are giving off a more authoritarian tone than many people here use, and that's what is getting hackles up. I think it's the fact that you're using terms like "openly disobey" and "make sure".<br><br>
I would bet in practice, many of our lives don't all look that much different, and though many of the mamas here are noncoercive, many of us aren't. But I do know that we all have the same frame of mind about why our children act the way they do, and it is <i>*almost*</i> never about them being pruposefully defiant or contrary, there's almost always more to it than that, and it's the parents' job to figure out the "why" behind their behavior and address THAT, as opposed to just making sure the child does our bidding.<br><br>
It's a different point of reference, and probably why there's been a lukewarm response to some of your recent posts. Hang around a bit and you'll see trends in how we all respond, but you wil also notice that we rarely ascribe sinister motives to our children's undesireable behavior.<br><br>
I do remember there was a thread a while ago about the "sugary sweet", doormat kind of parent that doesn't give their child any kind of guidance, and how calling GD that gives GD a bad name, but that there is a distinct difference between NO discipline and GENTLE discipline. AND, that just because you (generic "you") don't hit your kid, or yell at them, does not necessarily mean you are gentle with them. There is a pretty broad range of gentle parenting styles here on this board, but I think most of us can agree that our kids are worth just as much respect and consideration as any adult person out there, and we pretty much treat our kids the way we'd want to be treated by our spouse, family, friends, or neighbors, and that includes believing that they have good intentions and just sometimes lack on the follow through..and that's where the gentle discipline comes in, the teaching, the guidance, and the acceptance that they will only be able to understand and process as much as they are developmentally ready to.
 

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If I physically made my child do X every time she did not do X on my first request, this house would be a very unpleasant place. This is not to say I do not occasionally do something physical (move the child, for instance) in certain circumstances, but that is a last-ditch thing. My child HATES it.<br><br>
So...I do repeat myself. But I do it mindfully, most of the time--trying to figure out how I can change my wording to make whatever it is happen.
 

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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">and I just know that I'm not going to let my c hildren openly disobey</td>
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See, you type that and then give the example of your child not moving over in bed. I wouldn't define that as openly disobeying. I don't really subscribe to the idea that children "openly disobey". Of course sometimes children don't want to do what you want them to do at that exact moment --- but I guess I don't look at it in such adversarial terms. It is not a *me against them* attitude around here.<br><br>
Around here we subscribe to the idea that every family member is equal in their right to pursue their happiness. Of course not everyone always gets their way in every circumstance, and issues of dire safety and the respect of others is taken into consideration (for instance, we wouldn't be agreeable if our daughter's chosen route to happiness was punching us in the face repeatedly -- but that is not an issue <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"> )<br><br>
On the repetition aspect, toddlers especially love repetition. I know this intellectually and am also seeing it in practice with my 13 month old. She delights in me repeating the same song, or book, or phrase over and over ---my personal reasoning is because when I repeat something, she delights in knowing what to expect. She knows what I am going to say next. So taking it a step further, perhaps in instances where parents repeat themselves it isn't that the child is getting their kicks from "disobeying"...perhaps they just simply delight in the repetition?<br><br>
I dunno, it seems like you expect compliance from your children. Compliance, while *rarely* neccessary (as in with dire safety situations), is not one of my parenting goals or expectations. In fact, I go the other way and try to foster independent thought and action. It is my hope that in raising our daughter to be an independent thinker who feels free to make her own decisions, that in adulthood she will choose to be someone who stands up, instead of someone who sits down because they were told to.
 

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ITA w/ CC.<br><br>
and my understanding is that GOYB parenting is more about the *parents* being aware of how *their* behavior affects their children than about the children "openly disobeying". sometimes my 3yo is engaged in something ridiculously fun and doesn't hear me or wanna hear me. is he trying to piss me off? nah, he's just being 3. so the fact that i actually *get* pissed off is MY PROBLEM, not his. and i don't believe that i should punish or force compliance in a non-gentle way because of MY issue. i also agree w/ the pp who said that your tone sounds more authoritarian than i'm used to, or ascribe to.
 

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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">what I mean is If you say "move over, cuz there is no room for mommy in the bed" then they don't, and look at you like "what are you gonna do about it?" MOVE THEM OVER.</td>
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Given this example, maybe, just maybe, your children are so used to you making sure they move by repeatedly moving them whenever they don't move themselves that they truly don't feel expected to move? They know what mommy is 'gonna do about it', she's gonna move them. Just thought I'd point out this possibility.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">If I physically made my child did X every time she did not do X on my first request, this house would be a very unpleasant place. This is not to say I do not occasionally do something physical (move the child, for instance) in certain circumstances, but that is a last-ditch thing. My child HATES it.</td>
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I'll second this. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/thumb.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="thumbs up"> Ds(4) and I would be some miserable people.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>captain crunchy</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">and the respect of others is taken into consideration (for instance, we wouldn't be agreeable if our daughter's chosen route to happiness was punching us in the face repeatedly -- but that is not an issue <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"> )</div>
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CC, I just had to say this made me chuckle, but I do imagine that there are people out there who actually do think that noncoercive parenting would mean she could punch your lights out if she wanted to. I'm not a totally noncoercive parent, but even I get that things are supposed to be *mutual* in noncoercive parenting, and I'm trying to imagine a parent who would be OK with getting repeatedly socked in the face. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/dizzy.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Dizzy">: <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol">
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>30dirtyfingers</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">what I mean is If you say "move over, cuz there is no room for mommy in the bed" then they don't, and look at you like "what are you gonna do about it?" MOVE THEM OVER. not MOve over honey. honey can you move over? honey please move over.. baby girl, please move over so that mommy can sit down sweetie pie honey bunches w/ sugar on top.</div>
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I'd imagine many mamas here would repeat the request to move, but not like that!! That's not giving any helpful info at all. lol<br>
I'd probable say "Keagan, I need you to move." (he doesn't move) "Look at the space beside you. There isn't enough room for me there." And go on like that a few times. Just what MissRubyandKen said- we ask in a different way to help dc understand what and why we are asking. (and I've yet to see a look of "how are you gonna make me.")<br>
Diaper changing here is the same thing "Keagan, your diaper needs changed" (he says no) "feel your diaper. See how its all squishy?" (for disposables on trips) or "do you feel that your diaper is wet against your skin?" (for cloth) anyways, I'd repeat like that a few times. And on the off chance that he still said no, I'd wait and change them in a few minutes. He might have a good reason that I can't see. Maybe he has to pee again right away.<br><br>
Now, if it is something that could be harmful to somebody or something, I will say it once then find a (hopefully respectful) way to make it happen. Not out of "he has to obey me" but for the protection of others!
 

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I can't speak for any of the other mamas here but for me the point of the thread is to say the things that I wouldn't actually say to ds, in the way that I really feel them. And my emotions are repetitive. If he's pulling my hair I might write "G.D. IT! Stop pulling my hair! Stop, that hurts! Let go of my F****** hair NOW. You do not get to hurt me! God If I pulled your hair back you'd hate it, so stop it" Yep, I'm repeating myself. But that doesn't mean in real life I'd say "Ds, sweetie-darling. My little poochiekins, will you please, if you don't mind, let go of mommy's hair? Please, dear, let go. You're hurting mommy, honey. Let go baby. Come on, sweetie pie, stop pulling handfuls of hair out of my head, that hurts an awful lot." Please. It seems that's a rather extreme conclusion to jump to. I'm as likely to say that as I am to say the things I wrote. When he does pull my hair it goes something like this "Let go of my hair now." If he doesn't..."Let go now." If he still doesn't I uncurl his fingers and make him let go and say something like "I need to keep my body safe, so I'm leaving the room. When you are ready to stop hurting me, you can come out." But honestly, I WANT to say what I first wrote. But I know that's not how I want to parent so I take my anger and hurt and come to the yell thread and express it there.
 

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how about this... "no you can't have a drink, no you can't have my juice, no you can't have my juice--- okay here, have my juice.. darnit, that is why I didn't want you to have my juice, you spill it everywhere" I didn't wanna quote anyone, but situation calls for it.. I dont like being backed into a corner for just saying what I feel. I was under the asumption*sp?* that this board was for coming together and helping each-other figure out better ways to handle things. this thread wasn't to bash ANYONE, it was to come up w/ better ways to handle situations than repeating ourselves over and over, and for me to learn as well, which I have. and to the last poster, I said in the original thread (I dont know if this is ONLY if you coul dyell, or partly what you say some days in real life as well) I'm so tired of defending myself on these boards... I think I'll just be a reader from now on.
 

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Please don't feel victimized 30. The point was that you didn't seem to understand the purpose of the yelling thread. It's stream-of-consciousness and catharsis. It's not meant to be politically correct. That's all.<br><br>
And regarding the other criticism - we're all hear to learn and we're all at different points in our GD journey. Glad to see you intend to keep reading, but don't feel like you need to censor yourself or play mute because of how others will perceive you. I admire that you have come back and attempted to clarify your original point, even if it lead to further analysis and criticism. No one here wants to beat you down, I'm sure. We're all in this together.
 

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30, I wasn't intending to back you into a corner or bash you. In your original post you stated that "we're not supposed to repeat ourselves" and that you don't. That's fine for you and your family. But the yell thread is just that. A place to go to yell so that you don't do it to you dc. I'm sure there are other mamas out there who also rarely repeat themselves, and there are mamas who will repeat themselves in a thousand different ways. But the yell thread is not intended to be a slice of pie look at our every day parenting skills. It's just a vent thread. That's all.
 
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