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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This makes me sick. I would not have settled (I'm completely against drunk driving but as his lawyer said, he should have gone to jail).<br><a href="http://www.kgw.com/news-local/stories/kgw_030408_news_kelso_forced_urine_test.211bebac.html" target="_blank">http://www.kgw.com/news-local/storie....211bebac.html</a>
 

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Holy crap. I thought this was universal in the US, but maybe it's just Pennsylvania, that if you refuse to be tested for alcohol you lose your license just as if you'd been found DUI. So what difference did it make if he refused?
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>tboroson</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10694808"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Holy crap. I thought this was universal in the US, but maybe it's just Pennsylvania, that if you refuse to be tested for alcohol you lose your license just as if you'd been found DUI. So what difference did it make if he refused?</div>
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It's the same way in Ohio.
 

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Same in Florida.<br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/sick.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="sick">
 

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This is disgusting, and really should have claimed more press time. It's interesting how human rights violations in the US are quite under-reported and brushed aside as if it were the victim's fault. In reality, all involved in this man's "treatment" should have been fired and had criminal charges pressed against them. I agree that he should have been taken to jail, but nothing in the world gave the police or the hospital rights to do what they did. Now those criminals who perpetrated such a violation are free to do the same thing to someone else.<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"> Who really wins here?
 

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Doesn't say whether or not he was on other drugs. Or whether he assulted the officer. Or whether he said something like, "Go ahead! Take me to the hospital!"<br><br>
Kama'aina mama, I have been to a police state. If you want to come see a real police state, I can help you (no sarcasm or threat intended- I'm serious). The United States is far from a police state.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Mahtob</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10699098"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Doesn't say whether or not he was on other drugs. Or whether he assulted the officer. Or whether he said something like, "Go ahead! Take me to the hospital!"</div>
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No, the article doesn't but I expect that anything like that of significance would have come up in court.
 

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Okay I've been Googleing this to read different articles on it, (just google the guy's name), and it looks to me like the guy only sued claiming it was excessive force and caused him mental anguish. In other words, NOT alleging that they didn't have the RIGHT to take the blood draw, only saying he wishes they hadn't done it. But he's also saying it was only painful because he was struggling while the nurse tried to insert the cath. So he basically hurt himself. Duh.<br><br>
It's also not unconstitutional to do a forced draw like that, and is not considered too painful or overly invasive by the Supreme Court. And it doesn't violate the 5th amendment either. So it's no big deal IMO. Sorry, just no big deal. It's pretty obvious to me that the city only settled because a tiny $15,000 settlement is way cheaper than hiring a lawyer to defend them in court, not because they would have lost the case.<br><br>
I always end up defending the police, don't I? That's kind of funny. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol">
 

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I kinda think that having a catheter forced up your penis would be pretty painful and invasive.<br><br>
Whether he was drunk or not, that should not have happened.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>tireesix</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10702448"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I kinda think that having a catheter forced up your penis would be pretty painful and invasive.<br><br>
Whether he was drunk or not, that should not have happened.</div>
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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/yeahthat.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="yeah that">:
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Painful, invasive and sexual abuse IMO. If that happened to me, I'd feel like I was being raped again.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Synthea™</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10702634"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Painful, invasive and sexual abuse IMO. If that happened to me, I'd feel like I was being raped again.</div>
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Yeah, I wanted to say sexual assault but was a bit worried about people thinking I was making it a bit to loaded ya know.<br><br>
If it were me, I would feel sexually assaulted.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Benji'sMom</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10702407"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Okay I've been Googleing this to read different articles on it, (just google the guy's name), and it looks to me like the guy only sued claiming it was excessive force and caused him mental anguish. In other words, NOT alleging that they didn't have the RIGHT to take the blood draw, only saying he wishes they hadn't done it. But he's also saying it was only painful because he was struggling while the nurse tried to insert the cath. So he basically hurt himself. Duh.<br><br>
It's also not unconstitutional to do a forced draw like that, and is not considered too painful or overly invasive by the Supreme Court. And it doesn't violate the 5th amendment either. So it's no big deal IMO. Sorry, just no big deal. It's pretty obvious to me that the city only settled because a tiny $15,000 settlement is way cheaper than hiring a lawyer to defend them in court, not because they would have lost the case.<br><br>
I always end up defending the police, don't I? That's kind of funny. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"></div>
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Um...I don't know quite what to say...but I am very disturbed by this point of view. I'm sure that you might change your mind a bit if a procedure was forced on you- and I am really shocked that you think it's okay for ANYONE to force a medical procedure on another human being. And can you please provide a reference to which Supreme court case you are referring to, in which it is considered okay to force a blood draw on someone? Forcing non life-saving medical procedures on anyone for anyone reason is the definition of a human rights violation.<br><br>
If we continue to treat these things as "no big deal" I hate to think about what our country might be like one hundred years from now. We may not live in a police state yet, but the foundations for such are certainly laid.
 

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I think when you get your DL you agree to give either a breath test/blood/ or urine at the request of law enforcement. So you kind of sign that right away when you sign for your DL.<br><br>
However forcefully taking such a sample rather than just treating him as guilty is beyond belief! And this happened right across the freaking river from us! Unbelievable.
 

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They didn't use a cath.. they needled his kidney from outside.<br><br>
I have always... always contended that any form of biological testing should fall under the provision of providing evidence against yourself, violating your 5th Amendment rights.<br><br>
The man was assaulted by cops and doctors. And ya know what? I don't care what your f'ing job title is... you don't do that. It's not right and also it happens to not be legal.<br><br>
I wish people would lose their jobs over this but they won't.<br><br><br>
Nose of the camel, friends. Nose of the camel.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>aniT</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10704710"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I think when you get your DL you agree to give either a breath test/blood/ or urine at the request of law enforcement. So you kind of sign that right away when you sign for your DL.<br><br>
However forcefully taking such a sample rather than just treating him as guilty is beyond belief! And this happened right across the freaking river from us! Unbelievable.</div>
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At no time while getting your driver's license to you agree to give any kind of specimen to law enforcement upon request. You CAN refuse a breath test, have every constitutional right to do so. You may lose your license for a year, but you are not legally obligated to provide any kind of biological specimen. To forcibly take a biological specimen is a violation of one's person and human rights-it is assault, similar to being raped, in a sense.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>angelpie545</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10705250"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">At no time while getting your driver's license to you agree to give any kind of specimen to law enforcement upon request. You CAN refuse a breath test, have every constitutional right to do so. You may lose your license for a year, but you are not legally obligated to provide any kind of biological specimen. To forcibly take a biological specimen is a violation of one's person and human rights-it is assault, similar to being raped, in a sense.</div>
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Washington's <b>implied consent law dictates that having a driver's license represents the holder's agreement to take a breath or blood test to determine whether drugs or alcohol are present in your system. If you refuse to take a BAC test, you will forfeit your driver's license and driving privileges for at least one year.</b><br><br>
In addition to the risk of injury or death that comes with drinking and driving, there are a number of financial and other penalties that come with just being arrested for DUI. These include:<br><br>
* Suspension of your license.<br><br>
* Revocation of your license for one year if you refuse a BAC test.<br><br>
* For a second or subsequent DUI arrest in Washington in a seven-year time frame, your license will be revoked for two years or until age 21, whichever is longer.<br><br>
* Proof-of-insurance requirements (SR-22).<br><br>
* Reapplication requirement for your license, including knowledge and skills tests, and fees.<br><br>
* Fines.<br><br>
* DUI arrest on your driving record for 15 years.<br><br>
* Loss or seizure of your vehicle.<br><br>
A first DUI conviction in Washington is punishable by $5,000 plus other possible penalties from the courts, including jail time. Washington drivers face as much as one year in jail and the suspension of their license for 90 days with a first DUI conviction. Repeat offenders could be sentenced to other penalties, including home detention, license suspension, or revocation for as long as four years.<br></td>
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You do agree, if you refuse you WILL loose your DL.<br><br>
Also you will notice that I said in no way was it OK for them to forcibly take a specimen the way they did. This guy may have been a repeat offender and worried about going to jail or massive fines, but again.. this does not mean it is OK to just take it.
 
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