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So the next plan of attack with Sydney's reflux was to try thickening her bottles. We've been doing rice cereal and that seems to be really helping so I think I'm going to pick up some Simply Thick, as that will be a lot easier than cereal. I know they say that thickening doesn't help reflux but it seems to be helping hers... <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/dizzy.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Dizzy">:<br><br>
The other thing I don't get...As long as I let her control the feeding (hold the bottle, etc) she won't cry or anything, and usually she'll drink 5 ounces or so. Her tone is pretty high while you feed her, very stiff, but she otherwise usually doesn't act like it's too painful. It's only about one out of every 4 feeds (so about once a day) where she pushes it away after an ounce or two, doesn't want much, cries, etc. But between the feeds she's spitting up, coughing, you can see her reflux and make faces. Does she just have a high pain tolerance? Because the high tone would indicate that something is going on...but, I read what other people go through and they deal with it every. single. feed...so then I wonder if I'm somehow making stuff up or something.
 

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reflux is a rollercoaster. its normal for some feeds to be ok, while others are a nightmare. we also did simply thick for a while.<br>
ihope you check out the infantreflux.org boards.<br>
i also hope that you can get a PPI like prevacid for your baby. cying during feedings is an indicator that the acid is damaging the esophogus. can you imagine having chronic heartburn? i had it in pregnancy, and it made me cry.<br>
when the esophogus gets damaged from acid, it can lead to all sorts of complications. my son was on the verge of a feeding aversion, and the next step would have been tube feeding if i hadnt pushed for the prevacid.its also common for reflux babies to be intolerant to milk and soy protein- those two really aggrivated my sons reflux.<br>
he is like a different child on prevacid and medical formula-happy, sleeps good, no more crying or arching during feedings, no more gas, etc.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>nataliachick7</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/8152764"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">reflux is a rollercoaster. its normal for some feeds to be ok, while others are a nightmare. we also did simply thick for a while.<br>
ihope you check out the infantreflux.org boards.<br>
i also hope that you can get a PPI like prevacid for your baby. cying during feedings is an indicator that the acid is damaging the esophogus. can you imagine having chronic heartburn? i had it in pregnancy, and it made me cry.<br>
when the esophogus gets damaged from acid, it can lead to all sorts of complications. my son was on the verge of a feeding aversion, and the next step would have been tube feeding if i hadnt pushed for the prevacid.its also common for reflux babies to be intolerant to milk and soy protein- those two really aggrivated my sons reflux.<br>
he is like a different child on prevacid and medical formula-happy, sleeps good, no more crying or arching during feedings, no more gas, etc.</div>
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We're already on Prevacid. She wasn't tolerating milk formula at all - nasty ezcema. I hadn't heard that soy can aggravate reflux...that's what she's on right now. Hmm.<br><br>
Did you use nectar or honey Simply Thick?
 

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the thinner one- i believe nectar.<br><br>
50 % of babies that are intolerant to milk protein are also intolerant to soy protein.<br><br>
have you seen <a href="http://marci-kids.com/" target="_blank">marci-kids.com</a>? that is the midwest acid reflux childrens institute. they have the most current research about PPI;s in infants. most doctors underdose PPIs in infants, and the babies do not get relief. children under 2 metabolize PPI's very rapidly and need higher, more frequent PPI doses. for example, after contacting marci-kids (because our ped was CLUELESS), my son was started on 24 mg of prevacid at 12 lbs and 3 months-split into 3 doses. he was a different baby in <b>2 days!</b>its also important to note the form of prevacid you are using and how you adminster it. i can help you if you let me know.<br><br>
my son is on neocate-as he became miserable all over again after switching to soy and again to alimentum.<br>
i have seen MSPI in almost every reflux baby i have read about at the infantreflux.org boards.<br><br>
here is a great article about intolerances in reflux babies. it talks about food allergies, then intolerances, then talks about milk/soy protein intolerances and addresses reflux and the use of hypoallergenic formulas like neocate.<br><br><a href="http://home.vicnet.net.au/~disa/Food%20intol-alergic%20baby.html" target="_blank">http://home.vicnet.net.au/~disa/Food...ic%20baby.html</a>
 

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My 27 weeker had to have simply thick in his breastmilk... it was awful!! The vomit was nasty and the poos werent much better... That was before his feeding tube... He had reflux and dysphagia so it helped him.. but even with the simply thick he still vomitted..<br><br>
Anyway she might have more problems sometimes than others.
 

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I didn't find the simply thick to be easier than the rice cereal. It is gloppy and hard to mix in. I have lots of it and keep on buying rice cereal instead of using it. We are thickening breast milk, so it is really the best choice for an even thickness as breast milk digests the rice cereal, but I hated dealing with it. It makes the vomit so slimy and I think it contributed to his pneumonias since that kind of slime in lungs would be impossible to clear. We had three pneumonias in just over three months before we switched back to rice cereal.<br><br>
Avraham Chaim needs thickening because of swallowing problems not reflux and is mostly tube fed so our situation is different, but the thickening idea is similar I think.
 

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Nic has pretty severe reflux and he's on Nutramigen thickened with rice cereal plus he takes Reglan and Prevacid. He was on Zantac but after a while it no longer relieved him enough so we switched to Prevacid.<br><br>
He does pretty well now, he's 3.5 months and eats about 3.5 to 4.5 ozs per serving 7 or so times a day but there are some feeds where he pushes away the bottle after 2 ozs. He has thick, copious spit up about 2x a day which is so much better than before the Prevacid. He has started spitting up through his nose again, sometimes pretty violently so we're going back to his GI dr, he might need his Prevacid dose readjusted.<br><br>
Reflux is definitely not fun and I want to cry when I see Nic struggling with the acid and heartburn.
 

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Reflux really is a rollercoaster like the pp mentioned. Emma started off with maybe 1 feed or 2 a day beig a pain. It slowly got worse. I don't think it's that they have a high pain tolerance so much as it's a way of life for reflux babies unfortunately. I'm not sure where you ehard that thickening doesn't help reflux, i know with ALOT of babies it helps! I also think as they get older and start wanting to do things that it's somewhat of a control thing. If she does better while holding her own bottle than let her! Know what I mean? I think at this point i would get her off the soy and possibly try nutramigen for awhile and see if it helps. I know it's expensive but if it works, it's worth it. Also, have you tried alimentum? It's pre-thickened formula. It helped emma quite a bit, but then her reflux got worse. I know it's so hard with reflux, one day it's something, the next it's not....
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>doublesnap</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/8158636"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">He has started spitting up through his nose again, sometimes pretty violently so we're going back to his GI dr, he might need his Prevacid dose readjusted.<br><br>
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PPI's like prevacid will not stop this problem from occuring. they shut off acid pumps in the stomach, so when they do spit up, it isnt acidic. you can read about reflux meds at marci-kids.com.<br>
reglan, i would be cautious with that one, it crosses the blood brain barrier and can have some pretty nasty neurological side effects.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>munkeesmama</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/8159148"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Reflux really is a rollercoaster like the pp mentioned. Emma started off with maybe 1 feed or 2 a day beig a pain. It slowly got worse. I don't think it's that they have a high pain tolerance so much as it's a way of life for reflux babies unfortunately. I'm not sure where you ehard that thickening doesn't help reflux, i know with ALOT of babies it helps! I also think as they get older and start wanting to do things that it's somewhat of a control thing. If she does better while holding her own bottle than let her! Know what I mean? I think at this point i would get her off the soy and possibly try nutramigen for awhile and see if it helps. I know it's expensive but if it works, it's worth it. Also, have you tried alimentum? It's pre-thickened formula. It helped emma quite a bit, but then her reflux got worse. I know it's so hard with reflux, one day it's something, the next it's not....</div>
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alimentum is not pre thickened. maybe you are confusing that with enfamil ar. we have been on every formula on the market, and now we are on neocate, a medical formula. enfamil ar lipil is milk based though, and most reflux babies cannot handle milk based formulas.
 

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Oops, i meant enfamil a.r. we have been on just about every formula as well. It really depends on the baby whether they can handle milk based or not. My daughter has severe reflux is on a feeding tubbe now with no problems with milk based, so it just depends, but i do recommend cutting out dairy first to see if it helps.
 

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Has Sydney seen a ped GI? Just curious who you are seeing if you are. Did you ever change peds?<br><br>
Amy's reflux is getting worse. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"> At her 6 month appointment she had fallen off the weight charts (after being 5-10% since 2 weeks) and the ped increased her Zantac. I was keeping an eye on her weight and at 7 months her reflux was no better and her weight gain was still low. AND she started waking 3 to 5 times a night, clearly in pain, after having been only waking once or none for several weeks.<br><br>
She is now on the max Zantac dose for her weight and he started Reglan. He also has us giving her one bottle with cereal a day (she is still exclusively breastfed) and also cereal 2 more times a day before nursing sessions to in essence thicken her feeds.<br><br>
I asked about Prevacid and he was reluctant to prescribe it without her seeing a ped GI first. Its only been a few days, but the thickening does seem to be helping.<br><br>
I hope you get things figured out with Sydney!
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>egoldber</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/8160515"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Has Sydney seen a ped GI? Just curious who you are seeing if you are. Did you ever change peds?<br><br>
Amy's reflux is getting worse. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"> At her 6 month appointment she had fallen off the weight charts (after being 5-10% since 2 weeks) and the ped increased her Zantac. I was keeping an eye on her weight and at 7 months her reflux was no better and her weight gain was still low. AND she started waking 3 to 5 times a night, clearly in pain, after having been only waking once or none for several weeks.<br><br>
She is now on the max Zantac dose for her weight and he started Reglan. He also has us giving her one bottle with cereal a day (she is still exclusively breastfed) and also cereal 2 more times a day before nursing sessions to in essence thicken her feeds.<br><br>
I asked about Prevacid and he was reluctant to prescribe it without her seeing a ped GI first. Its only been a few days, but the thickening does seem to be helping.<br><br>
I hope you get things figured out with Sydney!</div>
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have found that many pediatricians prescribe zantac & reglan 'just because.' Your baby might not even need reglan- you'll find the link below, to research for yourself, as you read on...<br><br>
H2 blockers work by blocking the primary signal receptors on the parietal cell and keep most of the signals to begin acid production from ever getting to the acid-producing proton pumps. The main two problems with H2 blockers are1) they do not block all of the receptors and so the pumps can still be turned on, and 2) infants generally develop a tolerance for these drugs very quickly and so they usually become inneffective within a couple of weeks.<br><br>
Reglan is extremely controversial. It has worked for some. It is for DGE (delayed gastric emptying). Has your baby been tested for this? If not, then why is s/he on this drug? Here is some info so you can make an educated decision, along w/ your specialist:<br><br><a href="http://www.infantreflux.org/forum/search.asp?KW=reglan&SM=1&SI=TC&FM=0&OB=1" target="_blank">http://www.infantreflux.org/forum/se...I=TC&FM=0&OB=1</a><br><br>
there are many lawsuits against reglan.<br>
Here's about thickening formula: <a href="http://www.infantreflux.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=354&am" target="_blank">http://www.infantreflux.org/forum/fo...asp?TID=354&am</a> p;am p;am p;am p;am p;am p;am p;am p;am p;am p;am p;am p;am p;am p;am p;am p;am p;am p;am p;am p;am p;am p;am p;am p;am p;am p;am p;am p;KW=michelle<br><br>
*here's about thickening feeds:<br><a href="http://www.infantreflux.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=853&PN=1" target="_blank">http://www.infantreflux.org/forum/fo...p?TID=853&PN=1</a><br><br><br>
zantac never did anything for my sons pain. and i flat out refused reglan. he doesnt have DGE. and even if he did, i would use something other than reglan.
 

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I used reglan to increase my milk supply and started halucinating and hearing things. So I would absolutely refuse for my son to take reglan, especially when the only thing that has been done was Zantac. I took my son to the chiropractor and that has helped tremendously and I heard good things about cranial sacral therapy. As for thickening feeds, sometimes it isn't a good thing when they are too young, also they can aspirate. With my sons choking I was really hesitant with even starting solids. But everyone is different. The biggest advice I would have for anyone with their babies suffering from reflux is smaller meals more often. Overfeeding just makes it easier for the epiglotis to pop up and thus more reflux.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>nataliachick7</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/8153128"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">the thinner one- i believe nectar.<br><br>
50 % of babies that are intolerant to milk protein are also intolerant to soy protein.<br><br>
have you seen <a href="http://marci-kids.com/" target="_blank">marci-kids.com</a>? that is the midwest acid reflux childrens institute. they have the most current research about PPI;s in infants. most doctors underdose PPIs in infants, and the babies do not get relief. children under 2 metabolize PPI's very rapidly and need higher, more frequent PPI doses. for example, after contacting marci-kids (because our ped was CLUELESS), my son was started on 24 mg of prevacid at 12 lbs and 3 months-split into 3 doses. he was a different baby in <b>2 days!</b>its also important to note the form of prevacid you are using and how you adminster it. i can help you if you let me know.</div>
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Thanks. I'll go look at that page.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>munkeesmama</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/8159148"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Reflux really is a rollercoaster like the pp mentioned. Emma started off with maybe 1 feed or 2 a day beig a pain. It slowly got worse. I don't think it's that they have a high pain tolerance so much as it's a way of life for reflux babies unfortunately. I'm not sure where you ehard that thickening doesn't help reflux, i know with ALOT of babies it helps! I also think as they get older and start wanting to do things that it's somewhat of a control thing. If she does better while holding her own bottle than let her! Know what I mean? I think at this point i would get her off the soy and possibly try nutramigen for awhile and see if it helps. I know it's expensive but if it works, it's worth it. Also, have you tried alimentum? It's pre-thickened formula. It helped emma quite a bit, but then her reflux got worse. I know it's so hard with reflux, one day it's something, the next it's not....</div>
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>munkeesmama</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/8160311"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Oops, i meant enfamil a.r.</div>
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We haven't tried enfamil A.R. She was sensitive to we think milk? because the preemie formula gave her eczema. So we switched her to Alimentum, saw a difference within a few weeks. Then moved her to soy because Alimentum is so much money...now that I think back though I'm realizing that when we switched her to soy her spitting up started getting worse...hmmm.<br><br>
That would be $200 a month though <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"> Maybe I need to look into getting her on WIC. She's qualified for it b/c of SSI but I have been avoiding it. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"><br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>egoldber</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/8160515"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Has Sydney seen a ped GI? Just curious who you are seeing if you are. Did you ever change peds?<br><br>
Amy's reflux is getting worse. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"> At her 6 month appointment she had fallen off the weight charts (after being 5-10% since 2 weeks) and the ped increased her Zantac. I was keeping an eye on her weight and at 7 months her reflux was no better and her weight gain was still low. AND she started waking 3 to 5 times a night, clearly in pain, after having been only waking once or none for several weeks.<br><br>
She is now on the max Zantac dose for her weight and he started Reglan. He also has us giving her one bottle with cereal a day (she is still exclusively breastfed) and also cereal 2 more times a day before nursing sessions to in essence thicken her feeds.<br><br>
I asked about Prevacid and he was reluctant to prescribe it without her seeing a ped GI first. Its only been a few days, but the thickening does seem to be helping.<br><br>
I hope you get things figured out with Sydney!</div>
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We haven't switched yet. Mostly because I wanted to get out of RSV/Synagis season before doing so and since then haven't gotten a chance. I'm getting frustrated with his office staff and driving to Countryside isn't getting any more fun <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/wink1.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="wink1"> so I really do need to figure that out <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"><br><br>
We haven't seen a pediatric GI yet. I know there is a practice that Fairfax refers all of their NICU babies to though and I know that I've heard them highly praised by other moms - I'll see if I can find their name/# and PM you with it. I am thinking about making Sydney an appointment with them just to cover all of our bases.<br><br>
I'm really surprised that your ped wasn't willing to put her on Prevacid. I will say that for us the Zantac completely stopped working around 8 months old...so I would maybe look into going to see the GI if that's what it takes to get her on Prevacid, if she's that uncomfortable. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad">
 

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we are on neocate and its $500 a month. we have wic and they get us 8 cans a month. then medicaid picks up 5 more. i dont know what i would do without the assistance...my son would be forced to drink a formula he is allergic to....
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>nataliachick7</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/8168515"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">we are on neocate and its $500 a month. we have wic and they get us 8 cans a month. then medicaid picks up 5 more. i dont know what i would do without the assistance...my son would be forced to drink a formula he is allergic to....</div>
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That's how we were, but he would've been on rice milk instead. Evan was on Neocate till 24 mos (well, Elecare that last 6 mos) and it worked wonders for his reflux. Once I started that and changed my diet to only eating 4 foods, his prevacid finally started to work. It was amazing the difference in him. He was on meds till 21 mos and probably should still be on formula, but there's no way he'd touch it now.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>thepeach80</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/8171793"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">That's how we were, but he would've been on rice milk instead. Evan was on Neocate till 24 mos (well, Elecare that last 6 mos) and it worked wonders for his reflux. Once I started that and changed my diet to only eating 4 foods, his prevacid finally started to work. It was amazing the difference in him. He was on meds till 21 mos and probably should still be on formula, but there's no way he'd touch it now.</div>
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oh wow, elemental formula until 24 months? was your son able to tolerate any foods before that time? my son is intolerant to milk/soy /wheat/gluten, so his diet is pretty limited. i am hoping he will outgrow some of these intolerances soon...at what point did you decide to take him off the formula? he is still breastfed? i know if i switched to rice milk my son wouldnt get enough nutrients. he also requires prevacid. how did you know when it was time to stop the meds?
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>nataliachick7</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/8173989"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">oh wow, elemental formula until 24 months? was your son able to tolerate any foods before that time? my son is intolerant to milk/soy /wheat/gluten, so his diet is pretty limited. i am hoping he will outgrow some of these intolerances soon...at what point did you decide to take him off the formula? he is still breastfed? i know if i switched to rice milk my son wouldnt get enough nutrients. he also requires prevacid. how did you know when it was time to stop the meds?</div>
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Im not the IP but...<br>
My son just turned 2 and he is still getting breastmilk fortified with neocate 100% of the time. We have tried stopping his meds but he is not comfortable at all without them.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>ksera05</strong></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">We haven't seen a pediatric GI yet. I know there is a practice that Fairfax refers all of their NICU babies to though and I know that I've heard them highly praised by other moms - I'll see if I can find their name/# and PM you with it. I am thinking about making Sydney an appointment with them just to cover all of our bases.<br><br>
I'm really surprised that your ped wasn't willing to put her on Prevacid. I will say that for us the Zantac completely stopped working around 8 months old...so I would maybe look into going to see the GI if that's what it takes to get her on Prevacid, if she's that uncomfortable. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"></div>
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I'd love to get the name of the practice.<br><br>
The ped I saw this last time was one of the older docs in the practice and I think he prefers to take a slower approach to dealing with the meds.<br><br>
FWIW, I've seen a huge improvement in Amy in the last week. She's still spitting up, but is much happier and is sleeping a lot better. She's tolerating the oatmeal cereal and the cereal bottle well. I go to the breastfeeding support group at Fairfax to check her weight on Mondays. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/redface.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Embarrassment">
 
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