[help]

My situation is similar to the post I just read, although a little different. My baby is four days old and I am not producing milk yet. I have a little, a few drops that I can express, but apparently it's not in yet completely.<br><br>
My baby is almost at the 10% weight loss from birth that everyone worries so much about. The lactation consultant said if things didn't get better by tomorrow then I'd have to supplement. I don't want to supplement, I've just cried and cried over all of this. It seems like a re-creation of what happened with my son, who now has autism.<br><br>
She falls asleep all the time after a few minutes of nursing. I can only get about 5 minutes each sitting. I'm nursing every 90 minutes at least, sometimes more if she wants to or if I try. I don't know what to do to get her up and stimulated. Her bilirubin has increased and is at 11 now.<br><br>
I don't know what else to do to increase her weight and get her bilirubin back down. Does anyone have suggestions? I've tried skin to skin contact, changing her diaper, trying to wake her up, but it seems like all I do is nurse and it isn't helping. She has had four wet diapers today and three dirty ones, so that's an improvement from yesterday. Still no milk, though.<br><br>
I'm desperate and don't know what to do.

 

[JennieBean5]

I'm sorry you're having a hard time mama. Since your little one is falling asleep so much at the breast, can you try hand expressing/pumping a bit to try to help get your milk going? And then you could feed it to her with a cup/spoon if you're concerned about nipple confusion. Here is a good website with info. on milk production and hand expression.<br><br><a href="http://newborns.stanford.edu/Breastfeeding/" target="_blank">http://newborns.stanford.edu/Breastfeeding/</a>

 

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

I would add pumping into the mix. Let her nurse both sides as long as you can keep her awake then pump for another 15-20 minutes each side. Dosnt matter if you get anything with the pump or not it is the stimulation that matters. What you do get spoon or dropper feed that.

 

[ShwarmaQueen]

You're doing great! 4 wet diapers on day 4 is fine, as well as a 10% birth weight loss. Jaudice is usually harmless- can you sit her next to a bright window (never direct sun) or request bililights?<br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/hug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hug"> Keep up the good work!

 

[spughy]

Four wet diapers is actually what one would expect on day 4. Three dirty ones is great, especially if they're more proper poop than meconium. If the poop is still completely meconium though, then yes, that's reason for concern.<br><br>
It is unusual, though, to take more than a few days for milk to come in after a second child. How was the birth? Vaginal or c-section? Did you lose a lot of blood?<br><br>
I agree with the pp's that you should pump or hand-express as much as you can - but please limit your pumping so you don't damage your nipples and make sure that the flanges on the pump fit properly. In addition, it would be a good idea to start taking copious amounts of fenugreek and blessed thistle - 3 capsules fenugreek + 2 dropperfuls of blessed thistle tincture, 3 or 4 times a day.<br><br>
Also, how is your DD's latch? Can you hear any swallowing when she nurses? How warm is the room you are in? All the skin-to-skin in the world can't compensate for a too-warm room - baby will still fall asleep.

 

[MamaPhD]

Oh, mama, don't worry!!!!! Hang in there!!!!!!!!!!!<br>
I soooooooooooo feel for you. I've had the EXACT same situation with my DD. My milk did not come in until day 5 or 6 and until then NOTHING! So when people told me to pump, hand express, spoon feed colostrum, I was like wha!?!?!?!? I did not have ANYTHING come out of my nipples period! DD lost 15% her body weight at that point.<br><br>
Here is what we did that worked. We supplemented. BUT IT DID NOT JEOPARDIZE OUR BREAST FEEDING!!!!!! I think it was super important to have a pediatrician who was also a mom and a huge breast feeding advocate. She told me to always breast feed the baby first until she is totally done (she was nursing like 20-30 min every 1.5 hours, and getting really nothing), and then supplement 0.5oz formula at the end of feeding, no more. I also pumped every chane I get. Usually I nursed 30 mn, then handed off DD to my hubby, who would give her the supplment and I pumped during that time. I lived topless for the first 2-3 weeks!<br><br>
We also used medicine dropper instead of regular bottle, which may or maynot have helped preventing nipple confusion. We supplemented for a few weeks and she regained her weight well, my milk came in, we had no nipple confusion, and happy ending. In a few months, DD was 90th percentile height & weight because my milk really came in to stay. Now DD is a healthy 17mo at 90th percentile height, 50 percentile weight!<br><br>
Hang in there and don't be too scared to supplement for your newborn's well being. Supplementing and establishing breast feeding can be done together if you and all involved are mindful! Good luck!!!

 

[goodygumdrops]

I agree that pumping will help. I would pump every other hour for 15 minutes on both sides. You want to put your babe on the boob as much as possible, which it looks like your doing...<br><br>
Supplementing may be necessary, if so, I recommend using an SNS system. I had the exact same experience with my newborn and he was fine. You can supplement with SNS and bf at the same time.<br><br>
A little info that may help you visualize that amount of milk your babe needs in those early days...<br>
The first day your babe was born, his/her stomach was the size of a small marble. Colostrum is a perfect amount and fit for this sized tummy. Three days after birth, your babes stomach is the size of a small ping-pong ball. Again, pretty small and you would only need to produce a small amount to fill up this babe. By the fifth day, your babe's stomach is the size of a small egg. Again, not a lot of capacity.<br><br>
Wet/Poop diapers sound perfect. Weight loss is fine.<br><br>
If you have had breast augmentation, I would speak to your LC. Other than that, everything sounds normal....hang in there.

 

[ewe+lamb]

I saw your post on the other thread similar to this one and wanted to recommend the daylight just like a pp and breast compression when your little one is starting to nod off, <a href="http://www.drjacknewman.com" target="_blank">www.drjacknewman.com</a> and click on the videos for a good example of a breast compression video, also lots of skin to skin, try and stay in bed as much as you can with your little girl and get her to nurse nurse nurse to keep up the supply, not easy I know with another child around but do try as much as you can to rest and see if your partner or relative or friend can take your son out to the park for a couple of hours or something along that line, and don't panic it will all work out and you'll manage fine, just give yourself time and rest, also make sure that the rooms you are in are not overly warm, really that can be just as dangerous as too cold, babies tend to fall asleep very easily - as do adults in an over heated room, 18-20 degrees is perfect, dress baby as you would dress with one layer extra; so if you're in a t-shirt baby will need a body (onesie - I think you call them) and a light t-shirt as well.

 

[mum06]

I right there with you. I have a two week old that isn't gaining and my milk supply is very very low. This happened with my last baby too. (One would think that after five kids I would have everything figured out-go figure)<br><br>
One thing to remember is to keep your spirits up. When you are sad and hormonal, your body thinks you are grieving- like you lost your baby! Your body doesn't know the difference between grieving for a lost child and grieving for a breastfeeding relationship that may be lost. Your body is shutting down the milk production...try to stay happy! I'm trying as hard as I can too! I'm staying in bed, avoiding people to irritate me (my live-in FIL), and watching feel-good chick flicks!

 

[kavamamakava]

Please don't worry, you're doing great! My milk didn't come in until day 5 with my 2nd child and her bili level was much higher than that! Breastmilk is the best thing at getting the bili levels down and it sounds like you'll have it any day now - especially with 3 BMs in one day. I even used a double electric hospital pump and got absolutely nothing more than a few drops out. It was nuts. But I kept her skin to skin in a sling 24/7 and we both settled in to an excellent nursing relationship after a day of that. I just never put her down. I slept with her wrapped to my chest. I tickled her feet and pumped her arms and sang to her and took her clothes off to get her to nurse.<br><br>
Here's a milk sweet that my mother made me:<br>
Use about 1 Tablespoon each of the following ingredients -<br>
raw hulled sesame seeds<br>
softened butter<br>
honey<br>
pitted dates (about 2-3)<br>
carraway seeds<br>
raw blanched almonds (can be slivers)<br><br>
Mix it up and make 6 balls and eat one in the morning and one in the evening. Keep the uneaten ones in the fridge. And drink lots of water and have oatmeal for breakfast.<br><br>
My firstborn is on the Autism Spectrum too. He took to nursing right away and my milk came in on day 3. I don't think they are related?

 

[mamaw/two]

Nurse, nurse, and nurse some more. I would just keep trying to wake her up as often as possible, like you mentioned taking her clothes off will keep her a bit more alert, I've also heard some mom's say that they used a cool washcloth on a sleepy newborn to keep them awake to nurse. I didn't get my milk in until 5 days when dd#1 was born and she also lost quite a bit of weight, but the milk did come in and she did gain! Bilirubin levels peak on the third day of life, so the #'s should be coming down very soon (my nephew had a 16 and just used a bili blanket and it was fine). It's especially a good sign that she's having more wet dipes and the poopy ones will help get the bilirubin out of her system. Remember that you don't HAVE to supplement if the dr tells you to, she's your baby and the parenting is up to you. I have been told to supplement by drs and never have (I have four healthy beautiful children that have grown wonderfully). Congrats on your new lo and gl<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">

 

[help]

Thanks for the replies. Today has been going a little better, she nursed for like an hour and a half straight. Since midnight she's had 4 wet diapers and two dirty ones. I haven't gone back to the lactation lady yet today.<br><br>
Someone said they didn't think autism was related to not breastfeeding, I wanted to clarify that I don't think it was the main cause of my sons either, I think it was vaccines, but it was like a snowball effect, not nursing him long enough, starting formula, ear infections due to the intolerance antibiotics, ear tubes, then vaccines when his system was weak. So sad.<br><br>
Also, someone asked about my birth experience. Even though I had planned a water birth, we had some issues with the meconium (she was 41 wks) and OB wouldn't let me use the water, I was induced and had an epidural the last two hours of delivery. I didn't bleed excessively. I was told once that I might have PCOS, I don't have many of the symptoms but apparently that can affect milk supply. Is there anything that can be done if my lack of milk is related to this?<br><br>
Thanks for the advice, I'm going to rent a pump Monday, they're not open until then. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">

 

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

Oatmeal and mothers milk tea is what got my supply going. My milk came in with both kids on day 4. Only had a little colostrum till then. Both my kids dealt with high billi levels. dd was born jaundiced and ds developed the normal 2-3 day old jaundice. With dd I was in the hospital and she was put under 24/7 lights with ds I had him at a BC and came home 6 hours later so they prescribed home billi lights for him. I honestly dont remember what either one's level was or even if they told me.

 

[kavamamakava]

Great news! I don't think you need the pump. She's nursing and making lots of diapers. You probably have a lot of milk in there that just doesn't come out unless she's nursing. If you do want to go back to the lactation consultant it might give you some peace of mind because I have a feeling your little girl will have gained

 

[help]

I went back and her bilirubin was down to 10. When we first weighed her, she was down a few grams, but she had just peed right beforehand. Yesterday it was 7 4.9 and today before nursing she was 7 4.5 and afterwards they said she had added 1/2 oz? I don't know much about grams, but I thought 1/2 an ounce was a lot for one feeding, considering I don't feel like my milk has come in yet.<br><br>
The lactation consultant told me to let her sleep longer because last night I was waking her every hour to nurse for about 90 minutes from start to finish. She said that she might be so exhausted that it's taking up more calories than I'm putting in? I don't know...<br><br>
Thanks for the advice. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">

 

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

The LC might be onto something there. I wouldnt go past 2 hours but I would not do every hour wakings either. It is so hard with a newborn you just have to hope you do things right and there is no manual.<br><br>
FWIW I think you are doing a great job and it sounds like your dd is doing well.

 

[Altair]

Not that you're soliciting opinions here, but I hear you blaming yourself for your child's autism and I just had to jump in! I am a teacher for students with ASDs and have post-grad certification in Autism. There is just *no* proof period that any of those things could have caused your son to have an ASD, and as an anecdote... my students run the full range of vaxed or not, fed organic or not, no TV or addicted to video games, antibiotics throughout childhood or perfect health, etc. They seem to have the same ranges as all our other students. And every single one of their parents agonizes over what they did *wrong.* There's no snowball, you either have it or you don't your brain works that way or it doesn't and there's not much Mom can do to have changed that.<br><br>
I hope this is taken in the light it was intended-- gently and wanting you to let go of some guilt! You did everything right with your son, and you're doing everything right with your daughter now!

 

[RoseDuperre]

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>help</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15363274"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I was told once that I might have PCOS, I don't have many of the symptoms but apparently that can affect milk supply. Is there anything that can be done if my lack of milk is related to this?</div>
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</tr></table></div>
YES. <a href="http://www.breastfeeding.com/reading_room/pcos.html" target="_blank">I would order goat's rue ASAP.</a> Other galactagogues can be helpful too, but if the issue is insufficient glandular tissue, stimulating more prolactin production isn't going to help much without enough prolactin <i>receptor sites</i>, which goat's rue can help develop. This is key for PCOS moms as well as BFAR others and some other situations as well.<br><br>
Hang in there mama!!! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/thumb.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="thumbs up">

 

[kittywitty]

It sounds like everything is going better. I had the same issues when I had ds. I had an induced labor, intrathecal, delayed milk. But they told me 10% weight loss was totally normal and expected and my milk did end up coming in. I just kept at it and nursed him every moment I could. I think the goat's rue may help, or fenugreek. And of course, oatmeal and mother's milk tea. My first three kids had jaundice. The first went on the lights at home and they encouraged me to keep breastfeeding. Totally normal from my experience. They just told me to keep an eye on the next two and it went away. Keep up the good work, mama!

 

[hollytheteacher]

My milk didn't come until the end of day 5. Has your LO always bf like that (the following asleep really soon part)?<br><br>
Did she have her blood/oxygen checked? (that little thing they clip on your finger to measure the percentage of oxygen in your blood and it lights up reddish) ? i ask because one of the first signs of a heart problem is falling asleep/being too tired to nurse and get enough calories to survive.<br><br>
I hope i'm not scaring you but most heart defects are not diagnosed at birth and the parents end up rushing their kid in when they are not gaining weight / the baby is sleeping too much to eat.<br><br>
Having said that your milk isn't even in yet so maybe the baby just gets tired from all the work? It's obviously hard to figure out BUT before anyone tellls you to suplement I would ask that they check her percentage of oxygen in her blood.