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I'll try to keep this as short as possible, which won't be easy.<br><br>
This summer, DH and I will have been married 13 years. Since I've known him, he's always been very creative -- builds furniture, has 20 home improvement projects going at one time, gardens, etc. He's also had passing interests in drawing and photography over the years.<br><br>
When I was pg w/ DS, an artist (painter) friend of ours asked DH to help him with a series of female nudes he wanted to paint. The friend is not much of a photographer and needed someone who was better at it to take the pics so that he could paint from the pics. DH did it, with my knowledge and consent. The model was a friend of ours. Being pg, I was feeling insecure, but I put on a happy face, the project was done, and everyone seemed pleased with the result.<br><br>
Then ... when DS was about 6 months old, DH said that the photo project that he did with the painter was really great and that he wanted to explore fine art nude photography. I was too delerious with my new baby, getting back to work life and really just agreed without thinking about it much. He set up a shoot with the same model/friend and she came to our house. At which point, I freaked out. DH and I had a Big Talk and I said I was just feeling insecure and my body was still very much post-partum, plus breastfeeding, and it was just hard for me to have him taking (beautiful) nude photos of a younger, non-mom-body female. He seemed to understand and I said I wanted to get over my insecurities. He said he wanted to do a photo session with me sometime, but we don't have reliable childcare other than (now) preschool for DS. (To make the timeline make sense, I went back to work after maternity leave for 6 mos., then quit my job to SAH, then went back to work last summer and DS started preschool.)<br><br>
Now it's 3+ years later. He's done more shoots, used different models (all people we knew, until recently), bought gobs of photo equipment, rented a studio, and very much thinks of himself as an artist, which he probably always was, but this has been the most real manifestation. We've had many "discussions" since then. All of his models have been <span style="text-decoration:underline;">not</span> moms, and VERY physically fit. (I'm semi-fit, height weight proportionate, but not exacty made of steel.) The photographs themselves are stark, beautiful, but somewhat erotic in some cases. I've stopped bringing up any sort of photo shoot that would involve me because I feel so insecure about the whole thing that I just don't want to. It's not a situation where I can just lose 10 pounds and feel better about myself -- no amount of exercise is going to re-inflate or lift my sagging breasts, or erase my spider veins, or make my legs longer.<br><br>
I'm sure this might have seemed better placed in PAP, but that's not what this is about. I hate that I feel so insecure about all of this, but I do. DH has basically decided that I just don't understand art and seems mystified by the insecurity coming from me. Which I can't wrap my mind around -- how can he not get that? Anyway, the "personal growth" point of this is how in the world can I let go of this insecurity about my physical self? DH and I have a mostly good relationship -- one that is showing its years in that we're not very romantic, etc. But we treat each other well and I honesetly don't believe that this is all an elaborate ruse to meet women to cheat on me with, or anything like that. I want DH to explore his artistic self and I want to be OK with it.<br><br><br>
Thoughts?<br><br>
Thanks.
 

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Wow.<br>
Sounds to me like you're being manipulated.<br>
If it were me I'd be having an f'in breakdown.<br>
He's found a way to have his cake and eat it too. And he's calling it art.<br>
It's great that he's found his niche-HA.<br>
I'm so sorry you're going through this.<br>
To have YOU be the one to consider how you could lighten up on this is laughable. I can imagine how much this hurts you-so I'm livid.<br>
My dh used to be a hip hop artist and we had to deal with woman throwing their underpants at him on stage-once he wrote a song about it. OMG. He didn't see the light of day for a long time lol. I bascially told him it's us or it's that lifestyle. Family dosen't mix with that kind of art on those kind of levels.<br>
Imagine them sitting through that kind of crap from us-and us telling them to lighten up and do some self growth. HA again.
 

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I wanted to respond...although I have no idea how to answer your questions. Good Luck...I hope you find the peace you are looking for.<br><br>
I'm slowly coming to terms with the physical changes that have taken place since being pg. I'm only 7months pp and I'm wondering how much of this 'new' physical me, is permanent. A lot of it, my acceptance, is 'inside' work that I'm doing. I've lost a lot of my physical confidence since being pg-but slowly accepting what I am. Now I just have to figure out what that is, and be happy with that. I don't always like what I see, but it's me. And if I don't like me physically--who else is going to like me physically?--certainly not my dh.<br><br>
sorry I'm rambling, but I guess I just needed to type it out for myself.<br><br>
I wish you well.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>jillkuster</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7997014"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Wow.<br>
Sounds to me like you're being manipulated.<br>
If it were me I'd be having an f'in breakdown.<br>
He's found a way to have his cake and eat it too. And he's calling it art.<br>
It's great that he's found his niche-HA.<br>
I'm so sorry you're going through this</div>
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He's being a little dense/insensitive, but I don't get how you think the poster's DH is manipulating her?
 

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I'm so sorry you feel this way. I think we all feel this to some degree, after we have kids. I say, you should let him do the photo shoot with you. Throw caution to the wind (that is the right expression, correct?) and do it. You might be suprised with how you feel afterwards. Put on make up and make yourself feel sexy. I know it can be hard, believe me. But try. If you really think nothing shady is going on...I would do it. It could be empowering for you. But, that's my $.02 and I don't <i>really</i> know you.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Sol</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7997058"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">He's being a little dense/insensitive, but I don't get how you think the poster's DH is manipulating her?</div>
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I think I am being manipulated somewhat, but in the way that we all manipulate situations to try and get the maximum benefit with the least about of burden/pain/problem (meaning, in this context, cause the least amout of pain/problem for the other person).<br><br>
I could put my foot down and say I can't deal with it and ask him to stop. He would. He's offered to in the past. And I would be manipulating at that point -- I would be saying that the pain to me was outweighing the benefit he might get from doing it. No evil intent, but a form of manipulation nonetheless.<br><br>
The thing is, I don't want to give in to that. And that's what it would feel like to me -- giving in. Like my ego was so fragile that I had to tell him to pick another form of artisitic expression-- one where eveyone keeps their clothes on.<br><br>
Maybe that's not that crazy. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/winky.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Wink"><br><br>
Here's the thing: I'm not an artist. I'm not naturally creative in most areas of life. Most of my clothes are black and white because I know those colors match. I couldn't rearrange the furniture if I tried. I max out at stick figures when it comes to drawing. Sometimes I get crazy and add cinnamon to my coffee or use blue pen instead of black when I sign store-bought birthday cards. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/orngtongue.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Stick Out Tongue"><br><br>
In other words, I have a hard time deciding what's reasonable because I don't know what it's like to always have to be creating something. That's my DH. He always has to be doing something creative. Until this latest thing, it's been one of the things I've admired most about him.<br><br>
So I guess I'm looking for perspective there too. I'd love to hear from the artist types here. My impression from the outside is that an artist/creative-type person can't just shift gears to please someone else. I can't just tell him to take pictures of the dog. (I mean, I could, but it wouldn't result in much.)<br><br>
But it helps to hear that other women might find this particular pill a tough one to swallow.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>midstreammama</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7997209"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I'm so sorry you feel this way. I think we all feel this to some degree, after we have kids. I say, you should let him do the photo shoot with you. Throw caution to the wind (that is the right expression, correct?) and do it. You might be suprised with how you feel afterwards. Put on make up and make yourself feel sexy. I know it can be hard, believe me. But try. If you really think nothing shady is going on...I would do it. It could be empowering for you. But, that's my $.02 and I don't <i>really</i> know you.</div>
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I would, but I'm afraid that the end result will be ... uh ... disappointing when compared to the others. Pathetic, no? I know I will compare myself and be critical. This woman stuff is rough sometimes. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/redface.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Embarrassment">
 

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What is it that really bothers you about the situation - is it trust issues about you DH being around naked women? Or that you feel he'll compare your body unfavourably against younger non-mothers? Something else?
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>jillkuster</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7997014"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Wow.<br>
Sounds to me like you're being manipulated.<br>
If it were me I'd be having an f'in breakdown.<br>
He's found a way to have his cake and eat it too. And he's calling it art.<br>
It's great that he's found his niche-HA.<br>
I'm so sorry you're going through this.<br>
To have YOU be the one to consider how you could lighten up on this is laughable. I can imagine how much this hurts you-so I'm livid.<br>
My dh used to be a hip hop artist and we had to deal with woman throwing their underpants at him on stage-once he wrote a song about it. OMG. He didn't see the light of day for a long time lol. I bascially told him it's us or it's that lifestyle. Family dosen't mix with that kind of art on those kind of levels.<br>
Imagine them sitting through that kind of crap from us-and us telling them to lighten up and do some self growth. HA again.</div>
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I think you may be projecting some of your own anxieties and insecurities on the OP. There's nothing in the OP to suggest that her DH is involved in anything more sinister than taking artistic photos. There's certainly a HUGE difference between the "lifestyle" of a hip-hop artist and a photographer!<br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>midstreammama</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7997209"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I'm so sorry you feel this way. I think we all feel this to some degree, after we have kids. I say, you should let him do the photo shoot with you. Throw caution to the wind (that is the right expression, correct?) and do it. You might be suprised with how you feel afterwards. Put on make up and make yourself feel sexy. I know it can be hard, believe me. But try. If you really think nothing shady is going on...I would do it. It could be empowering for you. But, that's my $.02 and I don't <i>really</i> know you.</div>
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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/yeahthat.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="yeah that">: You never know- you might even inspire your DH to broaden his horizons, and start selecting models with a wider variety of body shapes.
 

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If his chosen form of artistic expression makes you intensely uncomfortable, maybe he should switch to landscapes. Or fruit. Would you do something artistic, or otherwise, that hurt him? Say you liked creative writing and wrote erotic stories about you and other men - if it hurt him, wouldn't you feel like maybe you could channel your energies in another direction?<br><br>
That said - ITA that it's sometimes hard to reconcile your own adult, sexual self with your post-babies mama body. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/hug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="hug">
 

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I would talk to him, I think having him do a shoot w/ you is a wonderful idea. When I was in school for graphic design I took a life drawing course (which I found out was short for drawing naked people lol) I had to do a full body portrait, nude. Looking at the portrait, I felt beautiful. So I had a few extra lumps and bumps but it was awesome. I say take some photos, take a look at yourself and see how beautiful you are in all your mommy-ness.<br><br>
Also, I would talk to him about why he chooses to only shoot "perfect" bodies. I know everyone has their nitch, but see if he has any other ideas. Offer suggestions.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Sol</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7997289"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">What is it that really bothers you about the situation - is it trust issues about you DH being around naked women? Or that you feel he'll compare your body unfavourably against younger non-mothers? Something else?</div>
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It's not the trust issue around naked women. I think that was my knee-jerk reaction, but I've had time to work that out in my head and understand that that's not it. I think it's the unfavorable comparison thing. Being constantly surrounded by reminders that I'm getting older and that my physical self just won't be getting much better. And this new perception that these other women are simply more interesting than I am because they're involved in this process and I'm not much more than a wet blanket or the one in the corner going, "um ... why nudes?"<br><br><br>
If his chosen form of artistic expression makes you intensely uncomfortable, maybe he should switch to landscapes. Or fruit. Would you do something artistic, or otherwise, that hurt him? Say you liked creative writing and wrote erotic stories about you and other men - if it hurt him, wouldn't you feel like maybe you could channel your energies in another direction? [\QUOTE]<br><br>
Is that even possible? This goes back to the "I'm not an artist" thing, but it is really easy for me to imagine that if I wrote erotic stories because I liked it and someone said, "how 'bout you write children's books?" I'd say, "I don't want to write children's books." Maybe I'd just quit what I was doing, as DH has offered to do, but at this point, I don't want him to do that if he's doing it because I can't handle it. (I'm secretly hoping eventually he'll just get bored with this, but no luck so far. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/dizzy.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Dizzy">: )
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>E&Gmommy</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7997505"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I would talk to him, I think having him do a shoot w/ you is a wonderful idea. When I was in school for graphic design I took a life drawing course (which I found out was short for drawing naked people lol) I had to do a full body portrait, nude. Looking at the portrait, I felt beautiful. So I had a few extra lumps and bumps but it was awesome. I say take some photos, take a look at yourself and see how beautiful you are in all your mommy-ness.<br><br>
Also, I would talk to him about why he chooses to only shoot "perfect" bodies. I know everyone has their nitch, but see if he has any other ideas. Offer suggestions.</div>
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(Sorry -- as my previous post demonstrates, I don't know how to do multiple quotes in a post. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/redface.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Embarrassment"> )<br><br>
I think eventually I will give myself a try.<br><br>
And I do wonder why the "pefect" body thing. That bugs me. I'll get to that one with him eventually. Our discussions on this topic are so looooong and painful (for both of us) that I have to pace myself. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/winky.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Wink">
 

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I may be less open-minded in this area than alot of folks, but I don't think you have to apologize for feeling insecure. It's not really a matter of trust either - I think it is risky that your husband is constantly staring temptation in the face - he is only human afterall. This may be unique concept, but my husband and other men in our circle (mostly church friends) go pretty far to preserve their sexual integrity - they don't allow themselves to be alone with anyone of the opposite sex (elderly grammas aside), that means no driving alone, meeting alone, etc. Some will get out of an elevator if a lady is alone their by herself. If anything it keeps you honest, and nothing will ever get misconstrued. We should be considerate of our spouses feelings (I know someone here will say it goes both ways), but if it makes you uncomfortable, it really should stop. It is encouraging that your DH has offered. Maybe you should take him up on it.
 

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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>E&Gmommy</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7997505"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I would talk to him, I think having him do a shoot w/ you is a wonderful idea. When I was in school for graphic design I took a life drawing course (which I found out was short for drawing naked people lol) I had to do a full body portrait, nude. Looking at the portrait, I felt beautiful. So I had a few extra lumps and bumps but it was awesome. I say take some photos, take a look at yourself and see how beautiful you are in all your mommy-ness.<br><br>
Also, I would talk to him about why he chooses to only shoot "perfect" bodies. I know everyone has their nitch, but see if he has any other ideas. Offer suggestions.</div>
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nak--<br><br>
I totally agree with the above poster. It is so hard for us mommies to look at our bodies and appreciate what they have gone through and how strong we still are. We have been through a physical battle you know! Birth!<br><br>
I think facing how you look in pictures of your self is the way to go. Don't hide what you look like to yourself. It is a battle between who you think you should be and who you really are. Or at least, what you really look like.<br><br>
Actually, after having read this post, I am thinking about having my dh take some pics of me. Especially after a c-section.<br><br>
I know it won't be easy. But maybe after all your self criticism, which are just the voices of our unrealistic beauty culture, you will see your own motherly beauty. The beauty of experience, of personal change, of battle and finally of love.<br><br>
By the way, only women who feel good about their appearance would feel comfy taking clothes off for pictures. I know women that can't handle sleevless shirts because of the fear of the "flab" on their arms.<br><br>
Stacey<br><br>
Stacey
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>tvanlien</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7997622"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I may be less open-minded in this area than alot of folks, but I don't think you have to apologize for feeling insecure. It's not really a matter of trust either - I think it is risky that your husband is constantly staring temptation in the face - he is only human afterall. This may be unique concept, but my husband and other men in our circle (mostly church friends) go pretty far to preserve their sexual integrity - they don't allow themselves to be alone with anyone of the opposite sex (elderly grammas aside), that means no driving alone, meeting alone, etc. Some will get out of an elevator if a lady is alone their by herself. If anything it keeps you honest, and nothing will ever get misconstrued. We should be considerate of our spouses feelings (I know someone here will say it goes both ways), but if it makes you uncomfortable, it really should stop. It is encouraging that your DH has offered. Maybe you should take him up on it.</div>
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I appreciate this, but this isn't really who we are. I have considered it in terms of "There's a reason I don't keep ice cream in the house -- eventually I'll eat it." (Forgive the really bad analogy. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/orngtongue.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Stick Out Tongue"> ) But all I can say is that I don't think that's the answer for us and for this situation. If he's going to be unfaithful, he's going to do it whether he takes pictures of nude women or clouds in the sky.<br><br>
I know what you're saying, though: Maybe we can be led into something we wouldn't normally do if the temptation is right there in front of us. And maybe so. Or maybe if I said "no more" the denial of self that would go with that for him would cause him to act out in a way he otherwise wouldn't. I'll never know. And I think that either one of those mental paths would mean that I was acting out of fear, which is what I'm trying to get away from in the first place. I'm going with my gut, right now, and it's telling me that I'll be better for it in the end if I can do a better job of getting past my knee-jerk insecurities.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>sunshinegal</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7997687"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">nak--<br><br><br>
I think facing how you look in pictures of your self is the way to go. Don't hide what you look like to yourself. It is a battle between who you think you should be and who you really are. Or at least, what you really look like.<br><br>
Actually, after having read this post, I am thinking about having my dh take some pics of me. Especially after a c-section.<br><br>
I know it won't be easy. But maybe after all your self criticism, which are just the voices of our unrealistic beauty culture, you will see your own motherly beauty. The beauty of experience, of personal change, of battle and finally of love.</div>
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This helps a lot. Thanks. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>jillkuster</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7997014"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Wow.<br>
Sounds to me like you're being manipulated.<br>
If it were me I'd be having an f'in breakdown.<br>
He's found a way to have his cake and eat it too. And he's calling it art.<br>
It's great that he's found his niche-HA.<br>
I'm so sorry you're going through this.<br>
To have YOU be the one to consider how you could lighten up on this is laughable. I can imagine how much this hurts you-so I'm livid.</div>
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Word. Exactly.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>A&A</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7997739"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Word. Exactly.</div>
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Hmmmm. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/dizzy.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Dizzy">:
 

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<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>soonerorlater</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7997786"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Hmmmm. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/dizzy.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Dizzy">:</div>
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I'm sorry to confuse you more. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/hug2.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Hug2">
 
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