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Threads of discussion in Finding Your Tribe - Threads Close Moved, Concerns Explained

6582 Views 136 Replies 47 Participants Last post by  cynthia mosher
Yesterday I reviewed a complaint about the repeated violations in the Politically Conservative tribe threads. In reading these threads it made me consider exactly why the threads are placed there rather than in War & Politics where they would normally be posted. Seeing the content of discussion and the violations I closed the thread and invited conservative parents to post their discussions in the topic appropriate boards that we have available for the discussions, depending on the specific topic.

I then began looking at the thread list and came first upon the Anyone But Bush tribe thread. Checking the first few pages and the final page it seemed fine so I moved it to War and Politics and posted to it to clarify that FYT was being reviewed and threads moved.

I countinued down the threads list and saw there were many that should not be in this forum but rather in the forums that host the specific topics of their content. Seeing the large number and that presenting a greater issue that needed discussion and decision I decided to not close or move anything futher until I talked with the moderators about it. And that is where we are now.

After I moved the ABB thread to W&P abimommy went through the thread and found similar violations that the conservative tribe thread had and which it was closed for. So she removed the thread from the board.

Since then I have receved a few PMs from members complaining about my actions. I can appreciate the way things appeared but really I am saddened that members would assume the worst and send me accusations and rather nasty remarks without first approaching me to find out the what and why of the situation. I have been called biased and anti this and that, and those judgmental words have been extended to Mothering as a whole which is really the furthest thing from the truth of the matter. The impression taken is an incorrect one and I hope I can explain things now to clarify and remove this misunderstanding.

I understand that some members feel they cannot post in particular boards without being attacked or criticized. If inappropriate posting is taking place in certain forums that makes it impossible for members to post their threads and have a topic discussed with civility then we will address that as an issue. But many of the thread topics posted to FYT are inappropriately posted here. It is not merely a politics or religious beliefs issue here. It is one of using the FYT forum to create sub-communities defined by beliefs and opinions to discuss topics that really should be within the larger community forum for that topic. In many ways this creates division within the community. While some division can be necessary - to organize discussions in one place - intentional division is a concern. I would prefer to address the reason behind such intentional division than permit it and encourage it to continue or ignore inappropriate behavior that is creating the feeling for this division.

To imply that FYT is a 'safe' place is not reasonable to me because it implys that other boards are 'unsafe'. This is a discussion board community. People present their discussions on the appropriate board for the topic and the entire community is invited to post their thoughts, agreeing or disagreeing, with everyone obligated to living up to the board policies and guidelines. We do have specific guidelines for some boards but those are exceptions that serve the specific advocacy purposes of Mothering or a specific need for that forum but is not the rule for all forums.

It is not reasonable to expect to be allowed to bar discussion that is not in accordance with your own opinions or that of a specific tribe. As long as what is posted is acceptable according to our posting rules and guidelines it should not be an issue of contention.

I am reviewing the entire issue with the mods, especially in looking at the threads in FYT that should be hosted in an existing forum. Please give me the chance to do that. Thank you all for your concerns, and even for your anger.
I hope we can work this out for the community as a whole and I hope you can all assume the best of us and help us as we try to do that.

~Cynthia
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Cynthia regarding this :

In reading these threads it made me consider exactly why the threads are placed there rather than in War & Politics where they would normally be posted.

if I remember correctly the threads were started in FYT because we were directed to do so by the mods and/or you (sorry can't remember for sure which). I can understand that you might change your mind about it later though. I only want to point out that I (as the person that started the ABB thread) did so because we were directed to as a way for those of us with similar views could form a tribe.

regarding this:

It is not reasonable to expect to be allowed to bar discussion that is not in accordance with your own opinions or that of a specific tribe.

this has already been going on. Most specifically in the SAHMs tribe thread that was started asking IF SAHM wanted their own forum and then 5 + plages into it we were all told that they were changing the poll/thread only for those in support and told to get out if we didn't agree. And since it was a FYT thread we were allowed to do anything but agree with them.

So I'd really like some clarity on the issue.

Thanks
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We may very well have done so but in seeing what is developing as a result we are asking for this to not be continued.

The SAHMs threads may too be inappropriate if they are intended to be exclusive. Yet in some cases members have been told to post threads in FYT for specific topics to demonstrate need for a separate forum or to have a place to discuss a specific topic that has no defined host forum and no intention on our part to open one.

We plan to look at everything as much as we can. Granted that's a lot of looking and considering and will take some time so clarity on the issue will not be quick. I'm sure there are many things to consider and we will do our best to consider them carefully.

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Quote:
Since then I have receved a few PMs from members complaining about my actions. I can appreciate the way things appeared but really I am saddened that members would assume the worst and send me accusations and rather nasty remarks without first approaching me to find out the what and why of the situation. I have been called biased and anti this and that, and those judgmental words have been extended to Mothering as a whole which is really the furthest thing from the truth of the matter. The impression taken is an incorrect one and I hope I can explain things now to clarify and remove this misunderstanding.
I was one of those members. Thank you for addressing the issue here and explaining what happened. It was not my intention to be nasty. I'm glad you can appreciate the way things appeared yesterday to those of us who felt wronged. I'm sorry if I came off as less than respectful.

Quote:
I would prefer to address the reason behind such intentional division than permit it and encourage it to continue or ignore inappropriate behavior that is creating the feeling for this division.
You already stated the reason yourself: People feel they can't post in certain forums without being attacked or criticized. It's not a matter of simple debate -- if it were, I don't think you'd be seeing the emotions running so high. The problem is that the debate gets so ugly and personal. And people justify that by saying that politics IS personal -- that someone else's differing views in and of themselves are some sort of horrible attack. I see this particularly with the liberals (of course, being that I'm a conservative
), but I'm sure we conservatives do it, too. I have seen people say things like "By voting against social programs/tax increases/gay marriage/etc., you are directly harming my family and so I don't have to be respectful to you because you are ruining my life." No good can come from that kind of statement! No productive debate can come from such a yucky emotional place! People are entitled to their opinions, but if they want to express them in such an inflammatory fashion, it's better done in the comfort of their own tribal thread, IMO.

Remember the "ism"s debate and how heated that got? And how it ended with a tribal thread because everyone ended up feeling so hated and divided? Yeah, it's a sad way for things to end up, but this isn't a perfect world, and you can't really control the way people feel. I think it's better for the board overall if people have room to vent to like-minded people semi-privately (even if the groups spy on one another
) than to have open animosity and anger spilling all over the boards.

Anyway, just my $.02 (plus some extra -- I'm feeling generous).
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I see that the conservative ladies have had their FYT cesspool re-opened. Can those of us that are slightly left of center petition to have our lefty cesspool unlocked as well, so that we also may resume our genteel discussion?
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hilary Briss
I see that the conservative ladies have had their FYT cesspool re-opened. Can those of us that are slightly left of center petition to have our lefty cesspool unlocked as well, so that we also may resume our genteel discussion?
Excuse me, Briss, no one "unlocked our cesspool."

A lefty poster apparently ran a search for old conservative threads and posted a nasty comment to one just to stir things up, bump it back to the top and try to get us in trouble. Unfortunately, a few people seem to have taken the bait. If you want an old liberal thread bumped to the top, do it yourself and see what happens.
I'm reading the "Voting for Bush and proud of it" and I dont' see any nasty comments- it appears the discussion is going on as normal, with more recent comments such as "the liberals don't seem to understand the electoral college. This isn't the first time a president has had more electoral votes, but not the majority vote. Of course, now they would like to overhaul the whole voting process because it didn't benefit their side last time."
Also with quotes from one of the more liberal threads and comments to "disprove" it.

I to would like my ABB thread back where we had already moved on to discussion about how to register to vote and the issues involved (Since I never even got to read the replies to my question) and am irked to see a thread that hasn't moved on is still up and running.

Of course I'm sure it was just a mild oversight.
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I'm confused. I thought FYT was supposed to be a place where we can find people we have something in common with, and get support for it without having to debate/defend it with everyone.

I guess whoever told me that had it wrong.

That's a shame, because it would be nice to have a place like that.
Thank You Cynthia, that is an eloquent & sensible response.
Your actions are understandable while it is being reviewed.

There is so much that could be gleaned from Mothering Magazine. upon which these boards are based.
It is a wonderful resource with information and common sense that can help us all - even with this particular discussion.

I hope someday Mothering's ideals and reflections, as well as Peggy O'Mara's infinite wisdom, can be reiterated without defense or hesitation within it's discussion forums.

Supportively,
Maya
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Whoever told you FYT was for that purpose Alice?

Finding Your Tribe was initially started to help mamas locate one another regionally. We have permitted specific topic groups to form tribe threads rather than open a separate forum for that topic. But FYT has never been a forum for division from existing topic forum discussions. Even when regional tribes take their discussions into subjects that really should be on the forum for that topic we encourage them to do so in the existing forum and not in the tribe thread. The tribe threads are, in most cases, for connecting mamas of an area to chit chat and talk about what's happening or being planned in their area.

I realize that this may not be holding true anymore and thatwe need to take a look at it all and redirect. We will be doing so.
And we won't be having SUPPORT ONLY threads anywhere. All threads and posts will abide by the User Agreement and any specific forum rules that exist. And sometimes folks just need to accept that others have different opinions and have the right to share them here as long as they do not violate the User Agreeement. And other folks need to let things roll off their back and agree to disagree. And not take things so personally or as a challenge to debate. This is a "discussion" board community. We won't be allowing individual members to define what can and can't be posted to individual threads. That's what the User Agreement is for and the forum rules are for.

We will work this out.
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I don't understand why the Catholic moms' tribe has been closed when some other religious tribes are still open?
so the religion based ones will be moved to spirituality? The SAHM ones to parenting? waldorf parents to learning outside of home? Is there really a need for FYT outside of the regional boards anymore?

I'm so sad my veg thread is gone.
I'm bummed too.


Why limit "tribe" to a regional definition? Why not simply modify the rules to reflect what FYT has become? Why can't it be a place of support and "safe" discussion amongst like-minded people? IMO, if you start moving these threads to what you deem the more "appropriate" forums, it's only going to cause more problems b/c then we'll all be "fair game" - and the poor mods may never sleep again.

I'm not trying to stir up trouble, just presenting another POV.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by skellbelle
Why limit "tribe" to a regional definition? Why not simply modify the rules to reflect what FYT has become? Why can't it be a place of support and "safe" discussion amongst like-minded people? IMO, if you start moving these threads to what you deem the more "appropriate" forums, it's only going to cause more problems b/c then we'll all be "fair game" - and the poor mods may never sleep again.
ITA with this statement. There has been so much angst in the boards here that I exclusively post in 2 FYT areas, one of which has closed and one of which has been allowed to remain open *for now*. Since I only come to MDC for those two places, it may be the end of my tenure at MDC, and not because I'm seeking to lash out about it. The Spirituality thread has often been a place with much that stirs deep anxiety in me, even in the topic name, and much the same with the veg threads at the Nutrition board. There is SO much more to being a vegetarian and raising a vegetarian than food. Ah well.

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What are the ethnic/race issue theads going to do?

I think this is really opening a HUGE can of worms.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Amandzia
I don't understand why the Catholic moms' tribe has been closed when some other religious tribes are still open?
I'm one person with a family of my own. It's 11 PM at night here. I have many other things to attend to on the boards and off. I will work on this as I can.


I have explained the why and how as clearly as I possibly can. If you are not comfortable in the general MDC community, posting onn the topic specific boards where possible then I honestly don't know what to say.

We do not want FYT to become a divisional forum that separates people based on their opinions that they do not wish to share with the entire community. That sort of thing is not the purpose of Mothering in hosting such a diverse community. If that is your desire for your interest it can be achieved by opening your own private board and admiting those you approve and wish to be a part of your private circle.

As I explained chit-chat threads are fine for connecting and keeping in touch as like-minded mamas. But if there is a forum that can appropriately host your post topic then it must be placed on that forum.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by skellbelle
I'm bummed too.


Why limit "tribe" to a regional definition? Why not simply modify the rules to reflect what FYT has become? Why can't it be a place of support and "safe" discussion amongst like-minded people? IMO, if you start moving these threads to what you deem the more "appropriate" forums, it's only going to cause more problems b/c then we'll all be "fair game" - and the poor mods may never sleep again.

I'm not trying to stir up trouble, just presenting another POV.
I agree that modifying to rules to fit what the members have created makes more sense than limiting the definition of a tribe to a region, when so many members have said that they define their own tribe so much more broadly.
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I understand what your saying Cynthia and understand that the focus is/should be on connecting on a personal level and not on discussing issues that fit in other areas. Makes sense to me.
While I get what you're saying, Cynthia, I still think that you're going to create more problems than you're trying to avoid.

For instance, the Catholic Mamas Tribe...where should it go? I guess one would assume Spirituality. But we discuss politics, too...so are you going to send us to - heaven forbid - Activism? We'll be absolutely crucified (pun intended!) there.


I totally understand that you are trying to do what is best for the MDC community. But I have to agree that

Quote:

Originally Posted by sohj
I think this is really opening a HUGE can of worms.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by weetzie
I agree that modifying to rules to fit what the members have created makes more sense than limiting the definition of a tribe to a region, when so many members have said that they define their own tribe so much more broadly.
I agree... and what about the threads that really dont belong anywhere...

where does moms of biracial babies go?? Personally i think it should be in FYT...

and the vegetarian thread was more than jus about food.. it was about finding like minded mommas to discuss what we go through raising vegetarian kids, social events, etc etc... which i dont think those topics belong in nutrition and good eating...

thats jus my .02 im not quite happy with this.. but then again im not making any of the decisions around here
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