Mothering Forum banner

1 - 20 of 41 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,130 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I don't want to start a huge debate here. I realize that every one of us has our own way of raising our children.<br><br>
2 of my dearest friends use the time-out chair and I just can't seem to get on board with that. Dd just turned 4 and she is developing her own will the older she gets. It's a good thing but she gets out of hand some times and I don't know how to support her through it. My friends have both said that time-outs is what has worked for them.<br><br>
I really need to get your opinions here. To me, putting them in time-out doesn't really teach them anything other than they have to sit there until they are told to get up, say they are sorry and tell mommy what she wants to hear. I'm not convinced it really teaches them anything.<br><br>
It also feels like strong-arming them into submission in a sense. Maybe I'm just too sensitive. I'm a very little woman. I'm not sure how old dd is going to be before she would start strong-arming me back <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"><br><br>
I just need a way to tell dd that her behavior is not okay but still support her, KWIM? Any input would be appreciated. This might be a little bit of a touchy subject to some mamas so could we please be gentle with each other?<br><br>
TIA
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,606 Posts
Hi,<br>
My DH struggles with gentle discipline and uses time outs sometimes for our almost 4 DD. I have found that the more negative the discipline- the more negative the behavior becomes. If we try to treat her with respect, avoid power struggles whenever possible (give in to things that really don't matter or find a compromise/negotiation) then she acts much more reasonable also. Our dead dog demonstrated this really well (before she got dead)- my DH would yell at it for an infraction and it would run away and get so ornery. If we talked gently our dog would be way more obedient and come to us. It just makes so much sense that the when kids feel good they act good (Dr Sears). I disagree with time- outs too- unless they are reframed positively (you need a break- have some toys/books). I don't have any specific suggestions for your DD - I know it is a hard age- we screw up often. I love gentle discipline books for the ideas in them (try "playful parenting", "how to talk so kids will listen and listen so kids will talk")<br>
Good luck,<br>
Christine
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,244 Posts
I find time-outs work when they are approached as "go cool off, come back when you're ready" instead of "sit in x chair for y minutes".<br><br>
For snottiness or outright rudeness, what works better is setting <i>my</i> boundaries. "I don't have to stand here and listen to that" and removing myself from the situation.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,690 Posts
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>LilyGrace</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10328417"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I find time-outs work when they are approached as "go cool off, come back when you're ready" instead of "sit in x chair for y minutes".<br><br>
For snottiness or outright rudeness, what works better is setting <i>my</i> boundaries. "I don't have to stand here and listen to that" and removing myself from the situation.</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/yeahthat.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="yeah that">: We have recently started "taking a break" with our kids. We used to do Supernanny and then 1-2-3 magic timeouts. Then we stopped altogether. I started counting awhile back and didn't like it. It didn't feel right to me. Now when there is agression between the boys or really rude behavior, and if all our other attempts to help the situation failed, we say something like "Hey, you're having a hard time playing nicely/being respectful/keeping your hands off of other people/etc. Let's go take a break." Then we head up to the middle landing on the stairs and they either stay there or sometimes like to go up to their room. I don't care if they do that because it's not meant as a punishment but as a true break. I tell them that when they can play nicely or whatever, they are welcome to come back. Usually they stay for 5-10 minutes before coming back with a much better demeanor. It has been a long road (and we're still learning) but we feel comfortable with this. I *really* don't like telling a four year old "You will sit here for four minutes." but I'm okay with taking a break until they've calmed down because I feel that it's helping them learn to listen to their body and when they feel calm, they can return. When we did punitive timeouts, things were almost never better after the 3 or 5 minutes because they were mad. Now they might sit for longer but they are truly calm when they come back. We also never say it as a threat like "Do you want a break? You'd better stop right now or you have to take a break." or anything like that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,654 Posts
We use time outs and they are very effective for us. But, we use them when behavior is out of control and the kids need to go somewhere to calm down and get themselves under control so we can talk about the behavior.<br><br>
I don't usually use them for punishment ie....DD hit her sister so she has to sit in time out.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,523 Posts
You should check out the Gentle Discipline board (it's here under Parenting). I use different tactics with my four-year-old depending on the situation. I think you have to be more creative and willing to think outside the box, but time outs are not successful at all with my DS, so we don't use them.<br><br>
THis wouldn't work for all kids, but what's worked most recently is, when he's doing something that's blatantly "wrong" (like throwing toys, hitting his sister), I scoop him up and say, "looks like you need to stay with me." Then I carry him around for a few minutes without another word. He doesn't particularly like it, and it's tough on my back, but this method really helped us turn the corner during a difficult month.<br><br>
hth,<br>
-e
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,203 Posts
You know, I tried timeouts a few times in the past and they didn't work for us. They just made my son really angry. But I tried them again 2-3 months ago, and they work GREAT for him now! 4 minutes in his room makes all the difference in the world in his behavior. He can be the rudest, most destructive child, and then I send him to timeout (we just use his room, full of toys and his bed-- not a chair of no fun) and he comes back and apologizes and remembers to behave well afterwards. And as a deterrent to bad behavior, a warning works well. He is better behaved and has a lot more self control now than he did before we started using timeouts. I don't think timeouts will work with very young children, but at almost 5, they really do.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,198 Posts
OK, I'll admit it. Time-out have worked for us when all else fails. Sample situation from just a few days ago (dd is almost 6).<br><br>
Bedtime is the worst for us. It was 10 o'clock on a school night. At 8:45, I told her to start wrapping up the game she was playing (cards) with my mom. She said, okay. I gave her the 5 minute warning. Fine. 9:00, I tell her it's time for bed. She gets upset and I remind her that I had given her plenty of warning. She said that they were in the middle of a hand, and I said that it was okay to finish it up. The finish and I tell her that she really needs to get to bed because it's nearly 9:30. She says that she wants to play another hand. Using my "How to talk" skills I talk to her about how much fun she is having and I realize she wants to continue, but that she would be too tired in the morning. No go. So, using my "playful parenting" skills, I tell her that I bet I can get ready for bed before her if we race. No go. Finally, after, dealing with this for 20 minutes and it nearing 10pm, I tell her that she could sit on the couch in time-out until she was ready to go to bed. Within a couple of minutes, she decided it was time for bed.<br><br>
So, for us, sometimes nothing else works. Is it my first choice? Of course not... but different kids respond well to different tactics. I figure as long as you are not physically or emotionally manipulating them, do what works. That's just me, and I'm sure my thoughts are much different than others. FTR, that incident is extremely rare, and we are complimented all the time on how respectful, "well-behaved", and empathetic dd is, so it doesn't seem to be doing any harm.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,654 Posts
Velochic - not to steer this totally off topic but you are the mother. When you said it was time to go to bed, why didn't your mother put the cards down and back you up?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,209 Posts
We try to use gentle discipline as much as possible, but there are some things we don't compromise on. Mainly tooth brushing, coming to the table when a meal is ready, bedtime, etc. If they don't listen to us, we'll go get them and bring them to wherever they need to be and help them do whatever they need to do.<br><br>
But for the most part, we don't do punishments. If the kids are upset over something, not being nice, whatever, we'll sometimes tell them that they seem like they need a break, and we'll sit with them on the couch or on their bed while they calm down. If I need them to do something (put their shoes on if we're leaving, come to me for a diaper change, whatever), we'll ask nicely and if they don't respond, we'll count to three. If we get to three and they're not listening, we go get them and put on shoes, change diaper, whatever. They don't get punished, but they know that we're unhappy about it and frustrated.<br><br>
For things that are important, I don't mind imposing my will. If the baby has a poopy diaper, it needs to be changed now, and not in 20 minutes when he's done playing. If we're supposed to meet someone for a playdate, we need to leave now, not when they feel like it. I explain why they need to listen, and I'm always gentle with them, but they do still need to listen. I think the key in getting them to do what's needed is to make it clear that I understand how they're feeling ("You're mad because you want to keep playing" or "You want that truck right now") and then explain my reasoning ("If you keep playing, we won't be able to play with your friend, and your friend would be very sad and disappointed" or "Your brother has the truck right now, we can't just take it from him. You can have a turn in a few minutes") and then help them do the right thing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,198 Posts
My mom is wonderful about staying out of these things. Every time I told dd it was time for bed, my mom simply said, "Good night, sweetheart." Mom lives with us and she has never interfered with the way I discipline dd.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,654 Posts
I totally get that but I don't understand why she continued to play. My mom stays out of my parenting too but if she were playing a game and I said it was time for bed, she would fold the cards up and say Goodnight Sweetheart and step away for me to handle the rest. I just think that by her continuing to stay and play cards, it really undermined your authority. But, I don't live with you so I'm sure you have your system all figured out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,825 Posts
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>LilyGrace</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10328417"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I find time-outs work when they are approached as "go cool off, come back when you're ready" instead of "sit in x chair for y minutes".<br><br>
For snottiness or outright rudeness, what works better is setting <i>my</i> boundaries. "I don't have to stand here and listen to that" and removing myself from the situation.</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
This is pretty much what happens at my house also.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,198 Posts
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>amcal</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10332374"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I totally get that but I don't understand why she continued to play. My mom stays out of my parenting too but if she were playing a game and I said it was time for bed, she would fold the cards up and say Goodnight Sweetheart and step away for me to handle the rest. I just think that by her continuing to stay and play cards, it really undermined your authority. But, I don't live with you so I'm sure you have your system all figured out.</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
My mom didn't continue to play. I don't know where I said that. She just sat there while I talked my head off to dd trying to get her to go upstairs. They didn't continue to play... my dd just wouldn't move her butt. She refused to get up and walk upstairs.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
17,022 Posts
There are some things, like dd hitting ds1's friend with the toy broom today where I'm ok with "strong-arming them into submission in a sense." When it comes to hitting people, there are absolutely no options. Time out accomplishes getting dd away from the other kids, gives her a chance to chill out, and gives me a chance to talk to her about what happened.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
34,292 Posts
Moving to gentle discipline
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,212 Posts
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>hottmama</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/10330528"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I don't think timeouts will work with very young children, but at almost 5, they really do.</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
<br>
Timeouts have never worked for my DS, I think the earliest age I tried it was 3 and he's 6 now. They only serve to make him <i>very very</i> sad or <i>very very</i> angry. And it's absolutely impossible to get him to stay in a time out when he's so worked up like that.<br><br>
You'd think I'd stop trying to make them work by now <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/eyesroll.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="roll">.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,130 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Great perspectives here. What I get out of this thread is that time-outs are better termed and used as a break or a cool-down time, rather than as a punishment. I could see myself removing dd from the situation and sitting with her to talk it through. I couldn't force her to sit in a chair by herself for x amount of time. I think that would hurt and shame her and even tick her off further.<br><br>
Each child is different, I realize. How do you handle it when your dc hits another child and won't apologize? This is what led me to this in the first place.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27,052 Posts
I think they're a great idea if the whole family uses them.<br><br>
Thing is, I thought they were always a bad idea for kids, but my little niece cheerfully heads over, sits there talking to herself for the two minutes and then comes right back to what she was playing with--and she's calmed down a bit so she's not doing the worked up behavior that lead to the time-out in the first place.<br><br>
So for her, right now, they work. But then they're also being used more like a form of redirection. Sort of "you're getting worked up over this activity so go sit and chill for a bit."<br><br>
Her mom does the "say you're sorry" thing only when she's hurt someone, but she adores talking so it's not traumatic for her. (Actually she'll say "you're sorry" first half the time, which is totally adorable.)<br><br>
Not how I'm hoping to parent, and the timeouts are overused a bit, but definitely a reasonable tool for that family.
 
1 - 20 of 41 Posts
Top