[sprout 1]

I feel like i'm standing at THE fork in the road. Everything is coming to a head right now and I really can't even sort my own thoughts. Other cliches fit here, like "door #1, or door #2", etc.
my choices are: stay with h as co-parent and try to work something from there. or leave h and try to work that. right now i am staying in the marriage and trying to work that, but it's not really working. here's a few reasons why..

1. a few weeks after ds was born, h started using drugs. he had used before i knew him, but i thought that was over... anyway, i found out about it when ALL our money was gone 6 months later, turns out he had about a $100/day habit going

The main "hurt" with this was all the lies. I was dealing with ppd and other issues, and h was NOT there for me or ds and was constantly spewing crap about where he was (physically and emotionally). I wanted to give h another chance and work together towards building a healthy relationship. I started counseling, h made an attempt at it...

2. we moved to get away from the "scene" in our town, and to hopefully build up some money again. ds went to school to become a cna, and had an affair with his teacher. she is over twice my age

and has personal qualities that made me sick before I even knew about the affair (like how she feels about her gay son, etc.) and yes, we did become quite "close" before the crap hit the fan... I found out about the affair 7 months after i found out about the drugs thing. it had been going on for several months, and of course the lies hurt even worse this time, and sexual trust issues that i have had since before h came back up, etc. For some reason I just couldn't let go of my vision of a happy family. I still had so much love for h and saw the person that i married and the wonderful father that he is, so i told him that i would stay IF he got help and started treating me better

this was almost a year ago, and things are slowly changing now but it's kinda too little too late.

3. h and i shared a computer a couple years ago, and i didn't care that he had a little soft porn on there. i even looked at it a couple times. but the last time, i saw some pretty disturbing things. like mock violent things, and it made me sick. i tried to talk to h and although he didn't want to talk about it, he vowed to erase it and talk about it "later". now we have separate computers so i've just been trying to forget about it, but we haven't really been intimate in a looooong time, partially because a level of safety is gone. i can't trust h and the violence makes me feel... not unsafe but just vulnerable and definitely not intimate. anyway, ds and i had to go down in the basement (to h's "lair" where his music studio and computer are) a few days ago because there was a tornado (yikes!). I thought it would cut the tension a little to play on the computer... the screen that was up was kazaa, (a file "sharing" type program like napster was) and the names of some of the files h was downloading made me want to puke. i don't want to write them here, but there was definitely a tone of violence. just to clarify things, i've never been afraid of h, he would never be violent to ds or to me, but it's just the thought behind violent porno that makes me want to leave h. i tried to talk to him about it again, and he got this look like he wanted to die and said "i can't talk to you about it, but i'm deleting all of it and i never want to see it again" and that i can feel free to check if it makes me feel safer. well, no that wouldn't help because i know it's in his head...

4. i caught him smoking in the basement after he repeatedly denied causing that smoky smell (must just be my super-human sense of smell misleading me). this wouldn't be such a big deal without the trust issues we already have. it's like, the first step of building trust back is DON'T LIE ANYMORE

so i guess this surpasses the "i'll never put up with that" quota that i had set for myself a long time ago. I have many issues with some men in my life (g-pa, dad, an ex-boyfriend) and i can finally say that i have forgiven them, but that doesn't mean that the issues i faced with them can't be brought back and made worse by another offense, kwim?

we are in marriage counseling and he's also in personal counseling, and he is going on wellbutrin (sp?) for bipolar disorder and possibly has bpd. I've finally realized that although i'm not perfect, i in no way deserve to be treated like this and it's NOT my fault. I have a hard time remembering that.

WHY would I stay with him? he is, believe it or not, an amazing dad now, and has come such a long way. he is supportive of all my ap values and is very good with ds. not to mention ds would be heartbroken if he didn't see his daddy every day. we've been talking about a separation, and h is very very adamant that i would not "take" ds. that's a whole different issue and i'm so exhausted i don't think i can go into it right now. my whole point of writing this was that i was so upset when h said "if you give up, it will be your fault that our marriage failed" and "you are f**g it up by ending it" when i really feel that he is the one who f*d it up by doing 1-4 and failing to make amends. yeah? i just can't stand the thought of trying to work through all this muck and it still ends up being my fault.
i really hope someone can respond with some insights or support, I really need it right now...

 

[tyedyedeyes]

Oh honey, I send you my support. I send you hugs. I couldn't read without posting, and sending you love. You deserve better, and so does your DS. Even though you say he is a "great dad", great dads don't spend all of the funds to feed, clothe and keep warm his babe...great dads don't lie...about smoking, or whatever..great husbands/dads don't cheat. Great husbands/dads don't blame their wives for their inability or refusal to commit, provide, tell the truth, and otherwise contribute to a two-person marriage. If memory serves me, both my husband and I said "I do". You don't deserve to be treated this way, and neither does your son. The days he lied, spent all of the money, cheated, etc, he said "I don't". And it's not your fault.

Much love and hugs. You will get through this mama!

 

[MamaWindmill]

My sister has been through almost exactly the same thing. In my opinion, you're with an abusive, selfish person who has your talked into believing his baloney. The fact that he tries to put this on you is typical of the sort of person who would do this to his family. I agree with the PP; being a great dad means doing pretty much the opposite of what he's done.

Here's the thing: he's not going to stop. Using drugs, cheating on you, dumping on you, et cetera - he's not going to stop. He'll go through cycles of doing it, getting caught, repenting, doing it all over again forever. Please don't let this person chew you up and spit you out.

I'm sorry this is happening to you - you deserve better. The time to leave was long ago - the perfect, happy family thing is a fantasy that won't happen with this guy.

 

[LoveChild421]

It certainly isn't you breaking the marriage up...a person can only take so much...it's just one thing on top of another and you certainly deserve better...whatever you decide- it isn't your fault- you can tell by your post you have tried hard to make it work

 

[arcenciel]

OMG morgansmom

When I saw the heading and started reading I was thinking "of course she shouldn't split up from the dad" because in general that's what I think. But by the time I'd finished, I was convinced you should leave.

And it wouldn't be giving up either. It would be taking a step forward. And it wouldn't be your "fault" either because when your partner treats you like that, there comes a time when you have to stand up for yourself and say "NO, I expect to be treated better than that." You've given him chances already, if he wants to "blame" then he's only got himself.

I believe it's important to 'expect' to be treated well. And if he's not treating you well after all that, then you have to set a good example to your son. If he's really a good dad then he'll get his act together and see your son often and be a good separated dad. It might not be ideal, but it's better than what you might become if you stay and let yourself be treated that way.

Anyway, it sounds like you're figuring that out for yourself. You just need to trust your gut. And although it feels like you will only get to make this decision once, it's not really true. If you stay, you'll have lots more opportunities! And if you leave and your h is really committed to being a god husband and father then I'm sure you can try again. Try and picture yourself in a year and what your life would be like either way. Or make the decision to stay and then live with that for a week and see how it feels.

Good luck whatever you do.

 

[Autumnschild]

It's apparent that it isn't your fault the marriage isn't working. Either you accept that things will likely stay the same and lose all sense of self or you can plow through a messy divorce (like I am). I stood at the same crossroads for over a year, and have made the decision to leave. Right now I feel like puking, but I know it will be okay in the long run. The kids will still see him and he'll still be a great dad. But he will no longer be a crappy husband. (Not mine, anyhow). Good luck to you. It's a bumpy road, either way.

 

[yaM yaM]

Hugs to you, mama.

He is manipulating you when he says that it is your fault. Don't buy it. Trust your intuition and all your feelings. Your feelings are your guiding light, they will never steer you wrong.

Your son may feel sad to not see his daddy every day if you leave this situation but, as hard as it is to hear (and I'm saying it to myself as well) our dc need US to see the bigger picture, the bird's-eye view, the long-run. As your son grows, you will not want him seeing this man's habits on a daily, intimate basis, because whatever happens regularly in childrens' lives is what is 'normal' to them, regardless of whether it is healthy or not. Even if, unfortunately, it is his daddy.

Also, re. his comments on you taking the boy if you separate: I would suggest talking to a lawyer about your legal options before making any moves. I'm guessing you will find that your h will have very little rights, here, and that you have more than you think. You might want to do this even if you decide not to separate, just to get the facts.

 

[granolamom]

Hugs to you dear mama..............

Follow your heart..take care of yourself and your DS..........

Love and Blesssings.......

Granolamom

 

[sprout 1]

thank you everyone for your replies. it really means so much to me, just to hear other opinions supporting my gut feelings on this one. the hardest thing is, he really seems to be trying to get back on track. He's exercising, starting medication, and going to therapy weekly. Now that it seems like he might be on the road to somewhere, I'm frantic to get out... because I don't want to be crushed again, and because i don't know if i can forgive him or trust him ever again. I'm only 21, I really don't need to be dealing with this crap for the rest of my life. But on the other hand, staying with him means I'm able to continue with school, stay home with ds, and have help when I need it. It's just so hard to give up that security. But I've been weighing the effects of my decision, and I just can't decide if it will be better for ds to have this as a model for relationships/behavior in general, or if it would be better to go down the unsure road of separation. My mom raised me and my brothers alone, and she pretty much went nuts. but it might have been better than having my dad around... confusion...

here's an excerpt from a note h wrote me today:

"You seem to be looking for any reason to hurl everything in my face
and make it all my fault and get out. right when I AM doing something about it. I realized that my mistakes were huge mistakes, and I still don't know how to make them up to you. I wish that I did. If you break this family up now, then you are making a huge mistake, a final mistake, and it is in your hands. You will be the one making a selfish decision."

and I have a question for the therapists (or other) that know about bipolar disorder. our marriage counselor said that h could "turn it on or off" (the manic episodes of extreme loss of self control). I think this is bs, and told her that it sounds like a copout to me. I've never thought of h as bipolar, he never has the highs, just is always mildly low. Although he is quite jumpy and can get agitated easily. I just don't like the idea of saying, "yes, you have this mood disorder that makes you unaccountable for your actions, but you can decide to go home and act like everything is normal and only have the disorder when you're about to do something stupid." of course that's not exactly what she said, but I know h could twist it into that. Just wondering if we should find a new marriage counselor...

thanks again everyone for all the support, I really didn't expect anyone to read that whole long post!

 

[Ruthla]

Is he a great dad or a great playmate for your ds?

It doesn't sound to me like he's treating you with respect or taking responsibility for his own behavior.

If you leave him, you're not "breaking up the family." He already did that.

I've been married twice, and now I'm single again (ok, technically I'm still married for the second time but I'm not with him anymore.) Trust me- it's easier to be a single parent than it is to parent while dealing with a bad marriage.

 

[sprout 1]

that's a good question. i have to say that he's a good dad. he is patient and very good at setting limits. He's gentle and affectionate and plays with ds, but is definitely a parent, not a playmate. i can see how it might seem like i just want to keep him around to help with ds, but it's more than that. our marriage is basically shot right now, but we're trying to focus on having a friendly relationship. when we cut the intimate part of our relationship out, the hurt goes away and i'm able to focus on my life and being a good parent. But when I try to "fix" things between us, everything goes downhill and there's a tenseness in the house that I know is bad for everyone. is it a bad idea to think we could maybe just stay together as parents and leave the marriage relationship behind? I know i could do it, and he's already done it, but I don't know if it's harder on kids to see their parents as just friends.

 

[captain optimism]

Let's see. He used drugs, he had an affair, he's into violent pornography. You don't trust him, he might have an untreated and pretty serious mental illness. He's blaming you for not trusting him and is upset that you think he is at fault for using drugs, having an affair, and lying.

At the very least a trial separation would be a good idea!

I think it's great that you have a friendly relationship and that you feel like he's a good parent, because you are going to be connected to this person for life because of having a child together. You will always be parents together even if you live apart. That's important to get straight with him, too.

 

[PikkuMyy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by captain optimism Let's see. He used drugs, he had an affair, he's into violent pornography. You don't trust him, he might have an untreated and pretty serious mental illness. He's blaming you for not trusting him and is upset that you think he is at fault for using drugs, having an affair, and lying. At the very least a trial separation would be a good idea! I think it's great that you have a friendly relationship and that you feel like he's a good parent, because you are going to be connected to this person for life because of having a child together. You will always be parents together even if you live apart. That's important to get straight with him, too.

:

Especially the first part. When I read what he wrote in his note to you, I thought, in my most NYC accent (What a schmuck!)

Hugs to you!

 

[flapjack]

Having lived with, been married to, and divorced from a bipolar sufferer, I can sympathize. My biggest flag- for you- is that you mention that your therapist is concerned about his extreme episodes of loss of self-control. You aren't mentioning this as a problem, just that he's possibly bipolar- no firm diagnosis in place. ??? What's going on? Why are you letting him off the hook on this without knowing whether he is bipolar, or using drugs, or is in fact a total asshole? Could it be fair to re-assess this as an abusive relationship ? (where there may be extenuating circumstances?) If so, would that make your decision easier? Or harder?
The way I look at it- there's more kinds of abuse than one. There's emotional- the guilt he is using to make you stay. There's financial- the money he stole, that was intended for your lives together. There's the betrayal of trust- his infidelity, the porn, etc, etc, etc. This isn't just a mental illness talking- some of this is someone who doesn't know how to have a loving, respectful, equal relationship. You're probably never going to know what percentage is him, and what percentage is the mental illness, but for the sake of your safety (and your mental health) you need to do this.

I say go- but do it safely. Make an escape plan, make sure you and Morgan have the money you need to live off, somewhere to stay, and talk to a lawyer and get the custody documents in place beforehand- ideally so he can be served with them the day you move out. How much time you take depends on how bad things are- physically as well as emotionally. You need to keep yourself- and your son- safe.
If you need to talk, let me know. I know you're stuck in a very hard place, and you're so young yourself- but it can get better. Things don't have to be this way. Single parenting is very hard- but also very, very rewarding, seeing a stressed child relax and unfurl.

 

[sprout 1]

oh, I guess I didn't make that very clear. The therapist "diagnosed" him with bipolar immediately after hearing about his bad choices, which was about 1/2 hr. into the FIRST session. That's why the uncertainty about the diagnosis, I personally think it's crap. I don't like it that she gave him the excuse of "being out of control" due to having bipolar disorder, because I certainly have never seen him in a manic episode in all the years I've known him, and his family doesn't think it sounds right either. I was describing what the therapist imagined were "manic episodes of extreme loss of self-control", but that's not really how they were. When all the stuff was going on, he would come home and be completely normal, his attitude has never been unpredictable or violent or anything like that. I've taken 20 hrs. of training at a womens shelter for crisis intervention, and I know about abusive relationships. I'm not afraid of h, I know he would never physically hurt me (or ds). He did hurt me in a different way with the things he did in the past. But just to make it clear, he's not the kind of guy who would do anything directly to hurt me or ds. He is so messed up that he didn't care or think about the results of his actions. He wanted drugs, he wanted the affair, so that's what he had. He didn't think about the results. I'm thinking, if this is an illness maybe it's treatable. He's already getting better, probably as a result of the medication, exercise, and impending separation. He WANTS to get better, but who knows if he will, or if it's going to be enough. We don't argue (now that we've cut back to just being friends). That's why I'm having such a hard time deciding. I don't want to look back in 10 yrs. and regret not sticking with him when he finally came out of the tunnel, kwim? The therapist says to just stick around for 3 months, and she thinks things will be better by then. But I don't know. In 3 months, if he's better and I can't forgive him, then I'm the schmuck. But if he's not better, that's 3 more wasted months and possibly 3 months away from my having the cohones to leave.

 

[BrettsMama]

Ditto-ing most pp's.
I think you need to ask yourself, do you have a limit for this? Is there a limit for how much of this lifestyle you want yourself and your ds to see and live?
It seems to me your H has crossed so many lines. You need to know this won't stop, even if you are living as friends only. So you just have to decide what your limits are, if you have any. I know if it were me, too many lines have been crossed to live the rest of my life like that.

 

[Mizelenius]

Does it feel like you have an elephant in the house? If so, do you want to live with an elephant forever?

I'm going to put forth a scenario: you've just won the lottery. What do you do about DH? GUT REACTION here, don't think.

 

[newmainer]

That's great that he's taking steps and doing better... and if he keeps up with it, then he will begin to be a better dad for your ds (i know you said he was good with him, but with those kinds of personal issues, though they may not be focused at your ds, are still there and not the markings of a good, trustworthy dad).

But, that's doesn't mean you have to live with him or be married to him.

And 3 months the therapist said? Anyone who knows something about these kinds of issues can tell you that 3 months is nothing. someone who has all of the issues that you have described needs (imo) to demonstrate serious, committed change for over a year before I would consider them really serious and in line to earn some trust back.

But that's me. I have high standards.

You're young. You could separate for a couple of years and if he gets his s*&(* together then you could get back together. He doesnt' sound healthy right now *at all* regardless of what steps he's taking (none of which are personal responsibility, I might add. Exercise is great, but it ain't taking ownership).

good luck to you. I feel for you. You deserve better.

 

[sprout 1]

I was also kind of confused to hear 3 months. I think she was just trying to keep me from walking out right then and there. thanks for your post, newmainer. I've found myself feeling almost defensive because I don't want it to seem like I'm putting ds in an abusive situation. I of course know that he picks up on tension, etc. but he never hears or sees any of our adult issues. it would be so easy to leave if h threatened me or if he hadn't become such a dedicated dad and enjoyable friend. I know his cheating, and especially drug use, was with complete disregard for ds's security but things have changed, and the issues now are what is going to happen because of those things. Anyway, it's helpful to hear that although he's working on improving himself, he's still not taking responsibility. I think he needs to work on himself before he can even see the full impact of what he's done. He's got major problems, and I think they're partly mental illness-related and partly personality, as a pp said.
So anyway, we've decided that I'm going to take ds on a little vacation and see if it should be "extended" once I get back. We all need some time away from the situation. I'm surprised at how fast this is moving, and also how "normal" it's not really that painful, like I thought it would be, and we're actually having more fun as a family than we were before we decided to take a break or separate or whatever our relationship is right now. I can take a breath and realize that I don't have to deal with h for the rest of my life.
I think the hardest part about this is realizing that I may never have another child. #2 has been in my plans and dreams for as long as I can remember, so it's almost like losing a member of the family. It's just so sad, this is NOT what I signed up for.

 

[ankh]

Hi morgansmom

Quote:

Originally Posted by morgansmom I was also kind of confused to hear 3 months. I think she was just trying to keep me from walking out right then and there.

Our therepist said three months too, I had left and he said try it for three months and then see. I suppose there must be a reason for this time frame.

Good luck

Lisa