tips for negotiating on budget with 1 income

1089 Views 24 Replies 15 Participants Last post by Callimom, Apr 22, 2009

sprouthead

Discussion Starter · Apr 20, 2009

DH and I aren't doing that well financially. DH works *about* 80 hours a week and from that we make enough money to pay for our bills and food (necessities) and I think we'd have a little left over to save, except DH blows through it all. He actually took out a credit card and had the bills sent to his grandmother's house and he's racked up some debt on that card now. In addition to paying off that debt, we need marriage counseling (!) which we have to pretty much pay for out of pocket to hit our deductible, and then we have some medical bills and car maintenance that needs to get done and that's where our tax return is going..

So, we're spending more than we make and we have been for awhile now. Despite sitting down together and making up a budget, DH still goes out and finds ways to just spend however much he wants on whatever he wants- we tried cash only which did not work for us (DH blew through the cash as soon as it was out of the ATM which would have left us without food for the rest of the month which I can't do to me and DS), and limiting access to ATMs just motivated this hidden credit card. I hate feeling like I'm the parent in this situation, and I want to figure out how to come up with a budget that we can both agree on. The only thing that I can think of at this point is to try to work more hours (I do work one morning a week), except paying for childcare is going to be tough.. Also, if I swing it I think I'm going to have some resentment because I will feel like I am going to work just to pay for DH's frivolous spending, but I think he feels resentful that he works so much and can't just spend his money on whatever he wants... Has anyone else been able to negotiate a situation like this?

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LilyGrace

· #2 · Apr 20, 2009

You're not going to like my thoughts...but I think you need to plop this down in your dh's lap. If you take control of the budget, he's more likely to feel as though he's treated like a child - can make the money, but can't be trusted to spend it. HE needs to see that it's a problem, HE needs to come up with solutions, and at this point, you need to step further back so that he feels as though he's a part of it all.

And, I think working blow money into the budget is important. Dh and I both have allowances to use however we want. This came into the budget before savings, actually. It helps keep his frivolous spending down and there isn't any discussion about where the money goes, letting us both feel like it's our own.

19spitfire

· #3 · Apr 20, 2009

Wow! How frustrating for you! I remember years ago when dh got a bonus at work and he suggested we split it. He seemed to think this was a great idea because he wanted a new toy for himself and I wanted some things for our family. DANG! I realized then that he had some more growing up to do as an adult responsible for a family. It sounds like your dh does too. The way he is behaving is not like an adult, but like a child.

Have you, without having a chip on your shoulder, asked him why he does this? Just to try to figure it out so you can work with him instead of against him? It sounds like he is angry about something (you not working as much as he is, other marriage stuff, him working too much???). Try to figure out what solutions he has in mind and how you can work together. I think this will take more than one or two sit down and talk sessions for sure.
If this were my dh and he was absolutely not willing to budget with me and kept spending recklessly I think I would have to budget alone and put the $ where it needs to go right after each check is in the bank. I would go and withdraw the $ and pay bills with money orders everything else would be on the envelope system I think.
On the credit card front, I don't know there's anything you can really do about it except wait until he learns. He will eventually run out of credit.Then you can

him.

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p1gg1e

· #4 · Apr 20, 2009

2

Two things that helped us. Watched the movie "Maxed Out" and
I took DH to a Dave Ramsey's class.

I call them his brain washing seminars

but hey it worked!

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mommaof5

· #5 · Apr 20, 2009

My husband and I had money problems in the beginning of our marriage (30 thousand dollars worth of debt). I always thought it was a money problem. Come to find out it was other stuff in our marriage and the symptom was money. When we took care of the underlining problems the money has actually taken care of itself. It sounds like you are having marriage issues. I would think until you resolve whatever the real issue is the money will continue to be a problem.

lach

· #6 · Apr 20, 2009

That is really tough. My husband also resents the tight lead I have on the budget, but thankfully he has grown up a bit and realized that it has to happen.

When things were tight and we tried the cash thing, we each got a pile of cash to do whatever we wanted with: that way what he spent wouldn't affect what I spent. But that was for personal things: necessary items still went on the debit card (which I had control over).

You could always put a fraud watch on his credit card

That would mean they notify you if someone tries to open a new account.

I agree that it sounds like he might be resentful. I know a couple who is in a similar situation, and basically it's kind of an unhappy marriage and I think he's a big jerk and he resents his wife so he takes it out on her by buying really stupid things, and then they don't have enough money to send their kids to preschool.

I would try to get to the bottom of that. Maybe give him some control over the budget, as hard as that sounds. He's acting like a child, and should probably be treated like one, but that's probably not going to make the situation better, so you may as well go the other way and see how that works.

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Smithie

· #7 · Apr 20, 2009

"On the credit card front, I don't know there's anything you can really do about it except wait until he learns. He will eventually run out of credit.Then you can him."

Ack! Bad idea! By the time your dh "runs out of credit," you will be so far in the hole that bankruptcy is going to look like a super good idea.

In your situation, I might look into a career change for both you and dh. If working 80 hours/week isn't creating a life of relative comfort for you guys, then no wonder he is frustrated! He would probably be a lot less frustrated if he worked 40 hours/week and you also worked 40 hours/week, doing opposite shifts.

Having a secret credit card is the financial version of having an affair - it's a lie that hurts the other spouse. That thing needs to disappear from his wallet muy pronto, and you should probably run a credit check to make sure he has no other accounts that you don't know about. Marriage/financial counseling is obviously needed - but is there a free source you can tap, like a minister or something?

I'm so sorry for your trouble.

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2cutiekitties

· #8 · Apr 20, 2009

Have you tried the allowance approach?

Quote:

Originally Posted by sprouthead

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DH blew through the cash as soon as it was out of the ATM which would have left us without food for the rest of the month which I can't do to me and DS

Maybe if you ran out of food and there was no dinner or breakfast and your son was crying how hungry he was then maybe your husband would clue in? He needs a lightbulb moment.

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PlayaMama

· #9 · Apr 21, 2009

2

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2cutiekitties

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Have you tried the allowance approach?

Maybe if you ran out of food and there was no dinner or breakfast and your son was crying how hungry he was then maybe your husband would clue in? He needs a lightbulb moment.

um, maybe no dinner for the hubby but i think that would be an AWFUL thing to do to your kid.

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tryingforbaby

· #10 · Apr 21, 2009

I can't add much other then to make things visable to him put your bills with the amounts on a calander on the fridge. Put a goals list on the frige too. I have a friend who has been at sahm for many many years and her husband "pays" her. On paydays he actuly writes a check to her for the budget and one for her personal account, she calls it her allowence. So they have 3 accounts, his, hers and houshold. It works for them and when they to marraige counceling to other couples they encourage it... or what ever works for them. Oh I must add in the budget she accounts for sink funds and savings. She says her job is SAHM and she get paid to do it!

It's kinda reverse logic... very smart.

sprouthead

Discussion Starter · #11 · Apr 21, 2009

I am so furious right now I can't even think straight.. I want to reply individually to everyone's comments and suggestions, which are helpful, but I will have to come back and do it later..

I said in my op what the plan was to pay for DH's debt, and now he has a couple speeding tickets and fines that are coming out of the budget too.. This leaves no money for summer clothes for DS, birthday gifts for him, or a summer vacation. I'm not really happy about that, but I was feeling really optimistic that some how I could get DH to understand our financial situation and negotiate something that we can both live with.. Well, then I find out this morning that he went out to breakfast! Where the H*** did he get money for that, and if he has money for that, why are we taking money out of the budget to pay for his debt? And btw, he doesn't have money for that-he's been taking more money out of our checking account that hasn't been alloted for.. Part of me feels like- well, it is his money since he's the one who earns it, and I guess he can do what he wants to do with it, but like a pp said, being a sahm is a job too, and all I get is my basic needs met while DH is still living like a single guy! And, I do work one morning a week and that money goes straight into our budget! I am so upset right now!!! I've also been thinking about trying to pick up more hours at work, but I really feel like if we have more money he's just going to spend more, so I don't think that's really a solution..

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Thystle

· #12 · Apr 21, 2009

2

You may not be able to ever make him see the "light".... he has issues you can't fix for him.

And if he wants to put his selfish needs before his family and child... then I HIGHLY suggest making a "back up" plan for yourself. You need a "Plan B" for if you really do become a single mom!!!!! Try all you want/care to to get through to him, but start planning NOW on how you will do it without him. It will empower you... no matter what happens.

And get yourself a checking account at a different bank ASAP! You can at least transfer food money! And I say a different bank because if it is at the same "chain" and DH bounces stuff with your joint, they can take it from your personal in many places... I have seen it happen. Plus you need to squirrel away a bit for you incase all hell break loose.

Also try a county clinic for therapy... they have a sliding scale.

This really is about more than money, this is a maturity and marriage issue. And if he is willing to sneak around and open accounts and hide it.... PLEASE be on the look out for other things.

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choli

· #13 · Apr 21, 2009

80 hours a week is an awful lot for one partner to work. I'd look into getting a job or more hours at the place you work part time. Expecting just one person to work that much when the budget is so extremely tight would never work for my family. If I was working 80 hours a week and my partner was working four, I'd expect to be able to buy breakfast now and again.

I knew this is not what you want to hear, but if your DH is working 80 hours a week and you still barely make it, changes need to be made.

Porcelain Interior

· #14 · Apr 21, 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by choli

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80 hours a week is an awful lot for one partner to work. I'd look into getting a job or more hours at the place you work part time. Expecting just one person to work that much when the budget is so extremely tight would never work for my family. If I was working 80 hours a week and my partner was working four, I'd expect to be able to buy breakfast now and again.

I knew this is not what you want to hear, but if your DH is working 80 hours a week and you still barely make it, changes need to be made.

I agree with this. Psychologically speaking, your DH might resent having to work so much and having nothing to show for it. I know mentally a lot of us simply "check out" when we can't fix something.

80 hours a week is insane. INSANE. A person cannot sustain that without it negatively impacting the other parts of their life.

I think he is spending immaturely, but why? Was he always this way, or is it a new level of irresponsibility? Could he be depressed?

Not making excuses- he's being a jacka** for sure, but I think his work schedule must come into play here somehow.

Maybe post your budget? I know people hate doing that, but it can be helpful. Something has to give here.

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Smithie

· #15 · Apr 21, 2009

You'd better start keeping your paycheck to yourself. Not to cause fights or as a plan to leave your dh or whatever, but because you need a stash of money that he can't steal, so your basic necessities will be met until such time as your can get counseling and have a household budget that works and is respected (i.e., one spouse doesn't steal from the checking account by incurring unbudgeted expenses without the other spouse's consent. This is a VERY common issue, so don't think that your dh is some kind of ogre, but since he hasn't yet learned how to be honorable with your joint money you will need to eatblish some independent money).

And yup, time to work more hours. Whatever he is doing 80 hours/week is obviously not a good career choice if it's leaving things that tight! Time to line up some free babysitting (trade with another mama, use a family member, whatever) so you can get the cash you need to keep ds clothed, etc. Bankruptcy is probably coming if your dh won't get help and see reason, but there are ways that you can cushion that for you and your ds.

Don't get me wrong - if you want to leave this guy, then you have my full support. My suggestions are assuming that you DON'T. If you DON'T, then making cash to provide for things like decent clothing for you and ds while the larger household economy goes down the tubes is an important part of your strategy for the next couple of years.

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Callimom

· #16 · Apr 21, 2009

I can't help with the underlying issues but here are a couple of suggestions for logistical ones.

1) when the money comes in, pay and prepay all your bills on line.

2) buy gift cards at the grocery store

3) establish your own credit card separate from your husbands and transfer/prepay money for things like your son's clothes, gas money etc to that card. Given the situation I would probably not make this known.

4) establish your own bank account at a separate bank and see if an overdraft option is available.

5) Run a credit report regularly to see what is happening with your husbands credit and whether there are new cards to be dealt with.

6) transfer any assets you can into your name alone.

7) put any savings you might have into an account that requires both signatures to access.

I would agree that counselling is necessary and I personally would make it a requirement if you are going to stay together.
I would also do weekly money meetings and post your budget.

Good luck
Karen

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19spitfire

· #17 · Apr 21, 2009

After my initial response, I've been thinking about your situation because it hit so close to home for me.
Gosh, dh and I just recently made our first budget. I tried before, but he and I weren't on the same page in our marraige so the budget was putting the cart before the horse. Well about a year and a half ago we came to a pinnacle point in our marraige and decided to really work on it. To have loving spirits to eachother and do things together and think about our needs and communicate them to eachother without judgement and without worrying about the others response. So I think after all of this we can finally sit down and budget without feeling resentful of eachother. Remember, he was the one who years ago wanted to split his bonus with me so he could buy a toy and I could use my half on the family

:. It wasn't about $. It was about needing to feel loved by me and being honest in what we felt to eachother. I have always loved dh, but I used $ as a weapon because my needs weren't being met (and I think he did too). Now I feel so sad to think of this. If I would have been honest and thoughtful sooner I could have accomplished so much in those 10 years wasted between dh and I.
So I think the issue is not MoNeY. I think there is more to it. If you post your budget you will get good advice on how to budget. But Maybe a book on marraige will do just as good. The book dh and I started with was called His Needs, Her Needs. It's cheaper than counselling and it promotes talk between the two of you. It helped my dh see that I NEED to feel financially secure and it helped me see that he NEEDS physical attention.
I wish you well. I will keep looking to see how you are. Like I said I feel for you because I can relate to your situation sooo much.
I wish you well.

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sprouthead

Discussion Starter · #18 · Apr 21, 2009

12

Half a bag of chocolate chips has really helped me calm down some, so I'm going to try to respond now...

Quote:

Originally Posted by LilyGrace

View Post

You're not going to like my thoughts...but I think you need to plop this down in your dh's lap. If you take control of the budget, he's more likely to feel as though he's treated like a child - can make the money, but can't be trusted to spend it. HE needs to see that it's a problem, HE needs to come up with solutions, and at this point, you need to step further back so that he feels as though he's a part of it all.

And, I think working blow money into the budget is important. Dh and I both have allowances to use however we want. This came into the budget before savings, actually. It helps keep his frivolous spending down and there isn't any discussion about where the money goes, letting us both feel like it's our own.

I had been trying to get him to sit down w/ me each week and look at our budget and see where our money goes, and show him how there's no money left, thinking that then he would understand that that means there's no money to spend on himself, but I don't think he saw it as a partnership because he keeps talking about his "blow money" as his "allowance" and he keeps asking for more. I think you're right- and I need to start putting all of the responsibility in his lap and say "this is how much money we have, and this is where it needs to go- how do you want to do this?" and hopefully if he comes up with the solutions, he will think twice before taking out his atm or another credit card...

Quote:

Originally Posted by 19spitfire

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Wow! How frustrating for you! I remember years ago when dh got a bonus at work and he suggested we split it. He seemed to think this was a great idea because he wanted a new toy for himself and I wanted some things for our family. DANG! I realized then that he had some more growing up to do as an adult responsible for a family. It sounds like your dh does too. The way he is behaving is not like an adult, but like a child.

Have you, without having a chip on your shoulder, asked him why he does this? Just to try to figure it out so you can work with him instead of against him? It sounds like he is angry about something (you not working as much as he is, other marriage stuff, him working too much???). Try to figure out what solutions he has in mind and how you can work together. I think this will take more than one or two sit down and talk sessions for sure.
If this were my dh and he was absolutely not willing to budget with me and kept spending recklessly I think I would have to budget alone and put the $ where it needs to go right after each check is in the bank. I would go and withdraw the $ and pay bills with money orders everything else would be on the envelope system I think.
On the credit card front, I don't know there's anything you can really do about it except wait until he learns. He will eventually run out of credit.Then you can

him.

This probably reveals some marriage problems

. When I asked him about the credit card that I didn't know about (he was having the bills sent to family and they brought me a bill and told me to change the address! I opened it thinking it was junk mail and I was going to call and have it canceled, and surprise!) he made up a few lies and then started crying telling me he didn't deserve me... so, i don't really know..

Quote:

Originally Posted by p1gg1e

View Post

Two things that helped us. Watched the movie "Maxed Out" and
I took DH to a Dave Ramsey's class.

I call them his brain washing seminars

but hey it worked!

I'll check out that movie! He did read the Dave Ramsey book and that's how we got started with budgeting, but clearly something's not sticking...

Quote:

Originally Posted by mommaof5

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My husband and I had money problems in the beginning of our marriage (30 thousand dollars worth of debt). I always thought it was a money problem. Come to find out it was other stuff in our marriage and the symptom was money. When we took care of the underlining problems the money has actually taken care of itself. It sounds like you are having marriage issues. I would think until you resolve whatever the real issue is the money will continue to be a problem.

I am sure that they are deeply imbedded.. I am really hoping that marriage counseling is able to help uncover whatever is going on here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smithie

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"On the credit card front, I don't know there's anything you can really do about it except wait until he learns. He will eventually run out of credit.Then you can him."

Ack! Bad idea! By the time your dh "runs out of credit," you will be so far in the hole that bankruptcy is going to look like a super good idea.

In your situation, I might look into a career change for both you and dh. If working 80 hours/week isn't creating a life of relative comfort for you guys, then no wonder he is frustrated! He would probably be a lot less frustrated if he worked 40 hours/week and you also worked 40 hours/week, doing opposite shifts.

Having a secret credit card is the financial version of having an affair - it's a lie that hurts the other spouse. That thing needs to disappear from his wallet muy pronto, and you should probably run a credit check to make sure he has no other accounts that you don't know about. Marriage/financial counseling is obviously needed - but is there a free source you can tap, like a minister or something?

I'm so sorry for your trouble.

The job thing is not going to change in the near future- this is DH's choice. He's salaried so it doesn't matter how much he works- the hours would be long no matter what, but the last person w/ his job did not work this many hours and his manager has actually yelled at him for working so much. I'm starting to think he just has no time management skills either. But anyway, his mother and I have both encouraged him to look for a new job and he won't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2cutiekitties

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Have you tried the allowance approach?

Maybe if you ran out of food and there was no dinner or breakfast and your son was crying how hungry he was then maybe your husband would clue in? He needs a lightbulb moment.

He gets "blow money" every month. It was $100 a month which he would go over, so this month we increased it to $200 and he's gone over that now as well...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Porcelain Interior

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I agree with this. Psychologically speaking, your DH might resent having to work so much and having nothing to show for it. I know mentally a lot of us simply "check out" when we can't fix something.

80 hours a week is insane. INSANE. A person cannot sustain that without it negatively impacting the other parts of their life.

I think he is spending immaturely, but why? Was he always this way, or is it a new level of irresponsibility? Could he be depressed?

Not making excuses- he's being a jacka** for sure, but I think his work schedule must come into play here somehow.

Maybe post your budget? I know people hate doing that, but it can be helpful. Something has to give here.

See my comment above about the job. I feel bad for him but I can't make him change it. I don't like it either. He says he just can't manage money..

I meant to quote the person who said something about being able to go out to breakfast once in awhile- he gets "blow money" in the budget, which I know he spends on going out to eat, which I think he must do once every couple days based on how quickly he goes through that money and the charges on the ATM and credit cards..

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2cutiekitties

· #19 · Apr 21, 2009

3

Quote:

Originally Posted by PlayaMama

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um, maybe no dinner for the hubby but i think that would be an AWFUL thing to do to your kid.

Hmm, guess I thought it was obvious that you just portrayed this to the hubby. I see this all the time on tv.... the kid hams it up to dad or mom to make a point.

Am I the only one who watches ads

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sprouthead

Discussion Starter · #20 · Apr 21, 2009

Our total income for this month (what we brought home last month) was $2970

Charitable140 (money to the MOD for DS's birthday and for a benefit for my cousin)
Rent700
Rent. Ins11.33
G & E298 (gas and electric)
Water20
Phone21.14
Cell95.38 (2 cell phones)
Cable25
Internet20
Groceries600 (actual groceries cost about $400 a month, but this is how much we've been spending on food including the amount that DH puts on the card taking himself out to eat)
Eat Out0
Gas100
Car Repairs 100
Medications 145 (DH's medication is full price until ins. deductible is met)
Gifts30 (birthday gifts for relatives I already bought)
Blow Money200 (DH's "allowance"- up from $100 previously because I thought maybe that just wasn't enough)
household40 (brita filters- we have lead)
childcare50 (for counseling and my work)
garden50 (supplies for vegetable garden we're making)

So that would leave $224 for saving or money for DS- except DH has already spent an extra $80 this month in small ATM charges and withdrawals and now he has $235 in parking and speeding tickets so that puts us $91 over our budget this month. I know it's not like he intentionally went out and got the speeding and parking tickets, but I know I personally would think to myself "I just got $235 in parking and speeding tickets- so now may not be the best time to take myself out to breakfast" and I guess I'm just frustrated that he doesn't think that way...

Thanks everyone so much for your input!

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