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TO give up your child............

3245 Views 65 Replies 35 Participants Last post by  Flor, 
A
Some of you may remember my post of a few days ago about wether its better to move for the sake of my familiy as a whole or stay to make life more convenient for my daughters father.

It seemed like the majority said I should stay. That having her dad within a few miles is more important that being financially secure with my family.

As I've been looking at this situation, though, I'm torn with another issue and would love more input, even the "hard a$$" input.


So, the reality is that *if* we stay in this town, we will never buy a home, at least not while my daughter is living with us. More than likely, we'll be stuck in this apartment, a medium ish sized two bedroom, for the next two or three years at least. Also, if we stay, its unlikely my husband will be able to be promoted (his company requires relocation to be promoted........stupid, I know). He switched to this company last year and the goal was promotion. Not only would DH be pretty unhappy, but we would not be in a position at any time in the next 5 years to do anything but live paycheck to paycheck. I would not be able to work because I couldn't justify working and the cost for day care for my son........we'd basically break even.

If we moved about two hours away, my husband would stay in his position but get paid a bit more and the cost of livng would be less. We would be in a position to pay off debt and live in a nicer environment. If we move, and things got really tight, my retired father and my step sister would be availible to babysit for free at any time.

Here's where I'm torn: I believe that my daughters father is ultimately trying to get my daughter the *Majority* of the time, namely during the week, and have us get her on weekends if we move. I am very reluctant to give up majority parenting time because he's tried to use that for basic money reasons in the past. And, to be brutally selfish and honest.....it would KILL me to not have her with me that much.

BUT! At her dads house, my daughter really has SIGNIFICANTLY less rules. Her dad tends to believe that he doesn't want to rock the boat with her as to avoid any confrontation. SO, his house is more "fun", not to mention there isn't the stress of a new baby there. She's basically the boss of the house, doesn't have to do many chores, doesn't have as many rules, and gets all the attention. Here, I'm stricter with her and not only did she have to adjust to my getting married and sharing me with DH but now there is a baby.

We had to go to court last week for mediation so I had to try to explain some of this to her. We had a good talk and she said that she'd like to spend *more* time with daddy.

While it breaks my heart, I am fairly certain it's because of her life there being so much "easier".

So as this issue gets closer to court, I'm left to wonder........do I let her go?

Honestly, I've always looked down on moms who don't have primary custody. Call my head old fashioned I guess but I always wonder what the heck she did to get her kids taken away. Now I am realizing that maybe it just worked out that way.

Again, in a purely selfish vein, I would feel like a failure as a mom if I let her go with him. I'd also probably sink further into depression at losing her so much. I wanted my children to be close and grow up together as much as possible and I personally feel that being in a more "normal" stable family is better for her than being with just her bachelor dad.

But she obviously is having a better time over there. I worry because later as she grows up, I'm scared it would mean I'd just end up seeing her less and less ....... OR that she'd decide she wants to be with me and have to move during school and lose friends.

How much do you listen to a 5 year old in terms of this choice? And honestly how would YOU mamas REALLY look at me if I were to move north, leaving my daughter in primary custody of her dad? What problems could you forsee 3 years down the road? 5 years? 10 years?

Ultimately I get very upset at the thought of all that money going to attorneys and would like to try to figure something out before it goes to court.
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M
Back the truck up, Mama. No matter who says what about the importance of your daughter being able to see her father, no one, NO one, could have imagined that this would be a better option.

Your daughter is 5. She is not capable of making good choices about who should raise her. She needs YOU, the person who has been with her from the very beginning.

Don't let a bunch of people who are not walking in your shoes tell you that you should stay in a negative situation because it's easier for the man who opted not to raise her. Yes, kids need their daddies, but they also need their mommies, and warm, loving, happy homes. Extended families and being safer are huge bonuses.

Take your family, do what's best for them in terms of living conditions, make the arrangements that are necessary for your daughter and ex to see each other, but do NOT, do NOT, do you hear me, do NOT even think that giving your daughter to your ex is the way to go.

If I were there I'd shake you. And then hug you. Don't do it. Don't even THINK about it.
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O
I think if you really look at it from the stand point of what is best for your daughter you will come to a descision. Don't try deluding yourself, be completely honest even if it means going against yourself. I see you in a very bad position and I think moving would be good for your family as a whole you just need to decide what would be best for your daughter in regards to leaving her with her father or taking her with you.
Although people are saying you need to stay for her would you be sacrificing your current husband and child possibley be putting yourself in a position to get another divorce? THis wouldn't be good for either child. In my opinion, if your current husband treats your daughter with love and respect (like he would his blood child) then your daughter would be better of in a happy 2 parent home. JMO
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S
(apparently i was one of the minority...)

based on advice from my own mother (grrr!), my ex sued me for primary custody of our three kids. granted, they were 9, 12 and 15 at the time... but my gut feeling was that he had walked out on them (and me) four years before that, and he wasn't going to magically turn into a better parent just because he saw them more.

he wanted to put them into public school (where they'd NEVER been). i sat down with each kid and outlined what i thought was best... and then LISTENED to each kid, to hear what they felt was best for themselves.

even the oldest, who had already been living with his dad for a year, chose to live with me fulltime if i moved out of the area. so, based on my gut feeling, and on their desires, that's what i fought for. it took lawyers and consultants and psychologists (all costing piles of money that i much rather would have spent flying the kids back each month to see their dad!), but it was WORTH IT. i've won primary physical custody, and i think the kids are much happier with me, even though we are so far from their hometown.

now, if your daughter doesn't feel strongly about living with you, you've got to listen to that at some level (of course, a five-year-old will always choose ice cream over broccoli... ). but if she's truly comfortable with her dad, and you think the dad would take good care of her, and really your only problem with letting her go is that it would hurt YOU... then maybe you need to consider this option.

something i tell my kids is that nothing is written in stone... if any of them decides at any time that living with their father would be a good idea, i would support them in that decision. so you might try things on a trial basis... once you get past the initial wrenching weeks of missing her, once you see her happy in a situation, you might find more peace with it. on the other hand, if things just aren't working out, you'll know at least you tried and now can work towards another solution.

good luck, mama!

katje
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A
Moon-
I may not have the option. My daughers dad can afford a pricey attorney...he did it last time and I had nothing. I may not be able to afford an attorney this time around, so if he gets one and I don't, I may be stuck with my options being stay and be poor or move without my child. So thats why I'm torn. I agree about her being with me being best, especially considering that I have been with her her entire life and he hasn't......but I also know the courts don't weigh that too much. *sigh*

Andrea-
Thats why I ask.........I go back and forth on whats best. My biggest concerns with her dad are that he isn't as in tune with her as I am, and thats led to problems before, namely he isnt an emotional guy and shes a VERY emotional girl, and he isn't very in tune with her health.......she's been sick a few times and he hasn't even noticed or thought it was as bad as it was. If I take her, I know that *initially* she'd be sad. If she stayed, I know she'd also be sad because she wants to be around her brother. My whole issue with everything has been I want to make her life happy and easy if I have the possibility to........right now, she'd be happier, I think, visiting me but spending more time with daddy. I don't know if thats really best though......I honestly am really confused about it. I don't want to make her unhappy and I don't want to make her chose. And I'd feel terrible initially if I went against her wishes, even though she is just 5.

Samurai-
So much of the situation is kind of.......equal on both sides. Thats why I'm torn. She'd be happier in the short term if I stayed and nothing much changed. I don't know if thats really best for her OR my son. I don't want my son to suffer because of my daughters dad, either. I want to provide better things for my kids but that may mean letting her stay here and only seeing her on weekends. Then again..........I think that being the person she is, she is more in touch with me and I think she'd tire of living with daddy in the long term.

Ergh.
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M
Quote:

Originally Posted by anothermama
Moon-
I may not have the option......I agree about her being with me being best, especially considering that I have been with her her entire life and he hasn't......but I also know the courts don't weigh that too much. *sigh*

And I'd feel terrible initially if I went against her wishes, even though she is just 5.

Ergh.

Would you qualify for legal aid? It's better than nothing. And, you never know, you said he was strapped for cash having recently bought the new duplex, maybe he doesn't want to get into a war over it either. But either way, it's not there yet. One battle at a time.

And I'm all for respecting kids' wishes and thoughts, but I'm sorry, at 5, your daughter does not have the maturity to understand all of the implications of choosing where she's going to live.

I'm so sorry you're going through this but no. NO. NO. Keep your child where she belongs, with you.
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C
Your daughter is having fun at her daddy's house right now because she is essencially 'visiting'. He doesn't make her do chores, have many rules, or require much of her. I'm betting if she were to live there full-time, that would change. Then what? If she said to you,"I don't want to live with daddy anymore, I want to live with you" would you be able to take her back, and stay in your new home? What I mean is, would he let you take her 2 hours away?
I tend to agree with the poster who said 5 is too young too decide what's best for her. Her opinion is important, certainly, but the decision has to be yours, not hers.
My husband is not good about things like remembering doctor appts, dentist appts, buying clothes that fit her, making sure the kids are up in time for school, feeding them healthy, taking care of them when they're up all night with a fever - you get the picture. What would her father be like in these regards? Would she be exisisting on McDonald's?
Would he be AP? Would he respect the choices you've made and continue raising her in the same manner?
Mama, you are between a rock and a hard spot (obviously!) and I really have no advice for you. This is one of the hardest decisions you'll ever have to make, so please don't rush into it. There is just so much to think about, so much at stake. My heart tells me that a child needs their mother, but then again it's not me living in your situation, so it's easier for me to say.
Something else jumped out at me in your post. You said that your depression would probably get worse. This is so true, and you need to take this into considersation.It is hard to parent effectively under the clould of PPD. Your son *also* needs you to be the best parent you can be.
Let us know what you decide - I will be thinking of you.
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A
I read your other thread, but didn't post because others said pretty much what I was going to say but here goes:

I think you should move and take your daughter with you. I think that it's easy for her dad to be lax about things when he's not the one with all the responsibility and that lax-ness would either change if he had her full time or would lead to problems if continued. I also think the fact that he only wants to be the "fun" parent is very disrespectful of you. As a PP said, what kid wouldn't choose ice cream over vegetable, that doesn't mean that it would be good for them to eat ice cream for breakfast lunch and dinner (although that sounds pretty good to me
) My parents always made it a point to collaborate on rules so that things wouldn't be confusing when we went from house to house and to talk to each other when making decision that one wasn't sure the other would agree with.

From your post, it seems to me that he wants your daughter full time, not because it would be best for her, but because it would be better for him and that's not a good basis for a custody decision. Also the fact that many of these decision seem to come down to money for him doesn't really impress me either. Also, if I remember correctly, you are a SAHM. Who will be taking care of your daughter if she lives with her father?? I don't see how it would be better for anyone for her to go from a stable 2 parent home with her brother, to living with her father who presumably works full time and as you stated in the original thread, has a pretty active social life.

As far as moving or staying, it seems to me that you entire family is being negatively impacted by staying and that's not fair to anyone. While it is nice that you have been so close to your child's father for so long, that just isn't working anymore and why are you and your husband the only ones who has to make sacrifices? I know it will be tough on your daughter initially, but i'm sure you could work out somethng that will work for everyone.

Sorry if I've rambled to much, but I've got to go, my son just woke up from his nap. I hope things work out for you all!
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N
Why does the custody have to change?

I'd make that drive twice a week, no complaints from me, in exchange for the better life you are describing for your family. I would consider it worth it. I'd surrender that amount of time in exchange for the other things you are talking about. If you're not putting your ex out any, I don't see why he'd have any reason to bother you about changing custody. And you can always breech the issue later about whether he'd be willing to do one of those trips, or meet you halfway.
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Q
I am sorry you are going through so much turmoil.

OK, this may sound a little harsh, but that's only becuase you can't hear the tone of my voice. I don't mean it harshly at all:

I'd do anything to keep my child with me. If that means staying put for right now, even in a less than ideal situation, do it. You never know what might happen in the future as far as a job or moving. It might seem black and white right now as far as your living situation goes, but all that could change in the blink of an eye--really, it could. But if you let your daughter go, that's a forever decision. Don't do it.

When I was pregnant the first time, I really wanted to quit and stay home with my son, but there was no way to do it and stay in our houe & have insurance. I panicked. At the 11th hour, my DH unexpectedly got a new job that allowed him to work from home. We changed our schedules around & everything worked out great--no day care for DS. SOmething like this could happen for you, as well, some answer out of left field--not a black and white solution.

Keep your girl & find another answer for the rest of your troubles.


Also--what does your DH think about all of this?

Oh--and remember that is may be your wish for your daughter's life to be "Happy and easy", but there is a heck of a lot more to being a mama than that! You are the one who has been guiding her through life to be responsible adult. Being happy & easy at dad's house may be fun, but that's not all she needs. . .
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M
Why dont you wait and see if your Dh gets a promotion? So many times things fall through, we are promised things that never happen. If you wait and your Dh does get offered a promotion, you can go to court and say "My DH was offered a promotion. If we take it, we can give her this ________"". The judge would be more likely to listen to your side if you had something more concrete then "My DH will probably be promoted in the next 6 months..."
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corrie43
You may have read some of my other posts in the past. My daughter does not live with me, she lives with her father. I see her 4 to 5 Weeks out of every year. We live on opposite coasts. I have been judged up and down by everyone who knows me, but I am comfortable with the way it worked out.

She had no input and was 5 when they moved, but it was the best thing for both families. SHe did not like my new husband a whole lot and has and AWESOME step-mom. His family has ALOT more money than mine and provides her with way more experiences than I ever could. SHe just got along better with her father and step mother more than with me and my husband. It just seemed a perfect fit. I could have fought it, but I didn't.

I would not look down upon you if you made the choice to have her stay with him during the week, and I hope no one else here would either. The one thing I reccommend is making sure it is a TEMPORARY agreement, don't sign anything saying it is permanant. If you would like to PM me for more info feel free.

I am only posting here to give my support in whatever decision you make. You should make a list of pros and cons and really think about what is the best decision for your daughter in the long run. In my case it was to live with dad. In your case, only you can make that decision, no one here knows you or her well enough to help you make the decision.

Corrie
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R
I couldn't for any reason give up majority custody of my kids. I really couldn't. I'd rather live simply- paycheck to paycheck.
I would ask your baby's father to give you a mommy-daughter day every week or two. It sounds like maybe your DD would really benefit having some extra mommy affirmation. Meaning to just realize she's still the apple of your eye and not being replaced.
I personally would pursue moving IF I could keep custody. You could live a half hour out of where your partner works and he could maybe commute. Then maybe you and your ex could meet or share the driving- one picks up friday the other on sunday. You could also consider homeschooling and do one week with Ex one with you. Or you could consider having her with you the majority of the school year, and he could have her over for longer intervals in the summer. Week or two at a time.
If I couldn't move the 2 hours- I would stay. Personally. Judges tend to favor SAHM and financial security so I think it is likely s/he would rule in your favor. I can't imagine how hard it would be for you to live with her away the majority amount of time.
There's my honest position. While she may need her daddy in her life, she also needs her mommy. ((hugs))
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R
At one school here the kids go to school all year but have more longer breaks- check out the schools where you are considering moving- maybe there is one with a similar schedule. It works real good for the split families I know.
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Jane
Is there any way to delay making this decision for a while?
You got tons on your plate right now.
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C
I'm a divorced and remarried mom with a 13 year old DD from my first marriage, and two little ones with my DH. The firm rule I have is that my DD never, ever makes decisons about where she lives, how often she see's her dad, or what holidays she spends where.

Its to much of a burden for a child. She wants everyone to be happy and feels she is betraying one of us if she chooses the other. She is very content to have me arrange everything and then just tell her whats going on.

I feel strongly that we should let the kids be kids and us adults should be hammering out the options without their involvement.

My ex's home is also alot funner then ours but as she grows up I see her happier and more relaxed to return home to the rules, nutrition, and everything else. For us dad is fun, but mom is home.
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M
Quote:

Originally Posted by Czen:)
I'm a divorced and remarried mom with a 13 year old DD from my first marriage, and two little ones with my DH. The firm rule I have is that my DD never, ever makes decisons about where she lives, how often she see's her dad, or what holidays she spends where.

Its to much of a burden for a child. She wants everyone to be happy and feels she is betraying one of us if she chooses the other. She is very content to have me arrange everything and then just tell her whats going on.

I feel strongly that we should let the kids be kids and us adults should be hammering out the options without their involvement.

My ex's home is also alot funner then ours but as she grows up I see her happier and more relaxed to return home to the rules, nutrition, and everything else. For us dad is fun, but mom is home.

thats a great point.
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M
What if you agree to maintain the existing visitation schedule despite the move and as much as it will suck to do it, make the drive. Then after you've been there for a while, say a year, then petition the court to change the visitation schedule as a result of hardship due to her school schedule. By that time the courts would frown more on switching her to her father's house full-time since she will be settled in her school and stable 2 parent home with siblings.

He shouldn't have any initial complaints if his visitation stays the same so maybe he will not raise a fuss and let you go ahead and move. I don't think there's any easy solution, but it would be something to think about.

Good Luck Mama! Hold onto your babe!!!!!
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L
Quote:

Originally Posted by anothermama
BUT! At her dads house, my daughter really has SIGNIFICANTLY less rules. Her dad tends to believe that he doesn't want to rock the boat with her as to avoid any confrontation. SO, his house is more "fun", not to mention there isn't the stress of a new baby there. She's basically the boss of the house, doesn't have to do many chores, doesn't have as many rules, and gets all the attention. Here, I'm stricter with her and not only did she have to adjust to my getting married and sharing me with DH but now there is a baby.
Why is this good? Less rules, no one holding her accountable, no one making her responsible....is there something I'm missing here?

Yes, she gets all of the attention. What happens when your ex decides to get remarried? And have other kids? Or is that not a remote possibility?

I think the problem I'm having with these scenarios is that you are taking a photograph of life TODAY and making decisions (or chewing on decisions, you're not really making them yet) but life is fluid and will change. Your DH could lose his job tomorrow (not saying I would want that for you but you know what I mean). Your ex could meet someone and get married. In a few years, the baby will be less demanding of your attention and there will be less "new baby" stress. I think that you really need to consider the big picture and the long road ahead to make the right decision.

Is it possible for you to split the difference and move one hour away so that your DH has to commute an hour to work everyday and your DD is closer to her dad?

I am one to definitely vote to stay where you are and let her be with dad but if the choice is between that and giving her to him for primary custody, then I would have to say that moving is probably the better choice.

But please consider this: what happens if you move and your DH loses his job. Can you be absolutely certain that he would be able to find something comparable in the new location? Please be very sure about this decision and please know that at the end of our lives, we remember the ones we love and our connections to them, not the house we lived in or the yard we played in.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by andreac
...I think you should move and take your daughter with you....
The OP cannot do that without breaking a legal agreement she entered into. If I'm remembering correctly, neither she nor her ex can move without the other ones permission. Moving without permission of her ex or the court is not a good idea.

Let me clarify, I do not look down on mothers who do not have primary custody. Good mothers look out for their child's best interest and if that means living with Dad most of the time, then I admire those mothers for recognizing that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by anothermama
...I wanted my children to be close and grow up together as much as possible and I personally feel that being in a more "normal" stable family is better for her than being with just her bachelor dad...
You just answered your own question. You think your daughter is better off with you. Now fight for that! If that means staying put in a crappy apartment for two to three years, then do it. What is two to three years compared to a lifetime of living with the guilt of not doing what you thought was best for your daughter?

It seems like you are really stuck...you want a house, you want your spouse to have better business prospects...which is totally normal and easily understood. But you also want your daughter to stay with you. You need to make a choice, you need to pick a priority. Is your priority going to be getting a house and getting your husband promoted or is it going to be keeping your daughter with you?

Edited to add: I hope I'm not coming across as unsympathic to your situation. It sounds to me like you are stuck between the proverbial rock and hard place. But I am worried about you. You just had a baby, why are you dealing with all of this right now? Would it really be a big deal to put this on the back burner for a year? Or even six months? Who is pushing this issue? Is it your new husband? I see you writing about him being "unhappy" if he doesn't get promoted but will that unhappiness even come remotely close to your unhappiness if you get pushed into leaving your daughter to live with your ex when in your heart you don't believe that is best for her???
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