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Discussion Starter #1
Just wondering about on this board. It doesn't look recommended on the sticky, but a lot of people seem to feel ok about it.<br><br>
Is there an official viewpoint?
 

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Hmm, not sure of the "official" viewpoint. Mine is that TO is not ok for the child, but it is ok to give to yourself and any toy/thing that is causing trouble. For example, if my children are fighting about a toy, I will put the toy in time out while we think of a solution. If I'm at my whit's end, I'll tell them that I need a time out and to let me be alone for a few minutes.<br><br>
I told my daughter to give herself time outs when she feels overwhelmed and she does it quite often.<br><br>
I can't stand for a child to be put into a corner or time out. The only exception is when the child is clearly out of control and needs to sit for a minute, in which case I would explain that the time out was just to calm down, not a punishment.<br><br>
That's my stance on it.<br>
Lisa
 

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My stance on it pretty much is the same as the pp's.<br>
I don't do the "toys in a to" thing, but I can't say I'm totally opposed to it.
 

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Don't know what the official stance is. We haven't used them often, I would say 3 times in my son's life. And when I did them, it's usually, "you need to relax a bit, I think you need to sit on the chair until you feel calm enough not to hurt your sister"....... the only time he's been in "time out" is when the offense is REALLY bad, like bad enough that you don't know any other option. Does that make sense. The other day my son whacked his sister over the head with some hot wheel tracks. I was sleeping in, and my husband handled it. And he used a time out, and yes the tracks were in "time out" too for a day. The 3 times he's been in time outs, it hasn't been like he as sat there for a specific amount of time for punishment. It's more like to get him to relax and reflect. My husband or I usually sit there and talk to him about the behavior adn why it isn't allowable. (like I said, hitting his sister isn't NOT allowed in this house) We tell him how it hurts his sister ect. And he is free to leave the chair at will and usually without us asking will say sorry to his sister.
 

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Punishing IMHO is not gentle discipline. I have used it but I try VERY hard not to and also try to find a new tool when I am at a loss and feel the need to punish.<br>
check out Alfie Kohn , "Unconditional parenting" for some valid arguments against punishemnt...you can check out his website for some examples.<br>
I also found Easy to Love difficult to discpline , by Becky Baily gave a similiar message along with more "how to" examples.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>hipumpkins</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7983464"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Punishing IMHO is not gentle discipline. I have used it but I try VERY hard not to and also try to find a new tool when I am at a loss and feel the need to punish.<br>
check out Alfie Kohn , "Unconditional parenting" for some valid arguments against punishemnt...you can check out his website for some examples.<br>
I also found Easy to Love difficult to discpline , by Becky Baily gave a similiar message along with more "how to" examples.</div>
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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/yeahthat.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="yeah that">: I see nothing gentle about isolation or punishment.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>mommy2AandZ</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7983164"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">And when I did them, it's usually, "you need to relax a bit, I think you need to sit on the chair until you feel calm enough not to hurt your sister"....... the only time he's been in "time out" is when the offense is REALLY bad, like bad enough that you don't know any other option. .....<br>
My husband or I usually sit there and talk to him about the behavior adn why it isn't allowable.</div>
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this is how we do it. i hate doing it but when you've already tried playing with them, already tried taking them outside, a bath, it is not near bedtime, and they are OUT OF CONTROL, what else can i do? then i think about how the situation can be prevented next time.
 

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Are timeouts (which isolate the child, not a toy or parent) GD?<br><br>
No.<br><br>
Are they inherantly wrong in and of themselves?<br><br>
No.<br><br>
Are they the same thing as "you hit you sit" or a "comfort corner" or "taking a break"?<br><br>
No.
 

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We have discussed Gentle Time Outs and I think the intent and attitude does make the difference between a punishment and a necessary break. I think if your intent is to communicate the child is bad, should be shamed, and relegated to another part of the house as a result (which is the spirit of many mainstream time outs) that isn't in keeping with the below:<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Effective discipline is based on loving guidance. It is based on the belief that children are born innately good and that our role as parents is to nurture their spirits as they learn about limits and boundaries, rather than to curb their tendencies toward wrongdoing. Effective discipline presumes that children have reasons for their behavior and that cooperation can be engaged to solve shared problems.</td>
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I have read many examples of children who really need less stimulation in order to calm down, or children who need the boundaries of a situation to be physically clear to them. Also, there is the reality that situations escalate when a parent spends 24 hours a day with a cranky 3 year old, and if there seems to be no clear solution, and tempers are flaring, taking a short break is often the gentlest solution in the moment. If your intent is to maintain a peaceful space, nurture your child despite momentary breakdowns in communication, keep each other safe, or impose a boundary for safety, I think this is very different than mainstream "time out--you should be ashamed, go away from everyone".<br><br>
I think intent does matter here because the actual concept of taking a brief break isn't bad or wrong (unlike hitting a person which is nearly always the wrong choice). It's the message you are trying to send by "taking a break" that may be punitive or may be nurturing. I think this is a grey area so it's good to talk it out when you are in these situations, to see if a change in perspective could be gentler and more effective.
 

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Personally at my house we use time outs but it is not punishment. I never say "if you don't do this you have to go to time out", I feel that is threatening and ineffective.<br><br>
We do have time outs for everyone, myself, son and husband when we need to take a break, which is what we usually call them.<br><br>
For example, we have playgroup every Friday at our house with all of the students from my sons kinder class. Sometimes having 4 of his friends over can lead to an overwhelming transition period from getting off the bus and adjusting into free play time. When DS gets frustrated or stressed out he "takes a break", he usually prefers to sit in our guest room for a few minutes and then he comes back out to play. It works really well and he is in control of the situation.<br><br>
I don't usually say I'm giving toys a time out, I have told them that if we can't all take turns (I never suggest sharing, they seem to really hate that word) then we have to put the toy away until later, which is usually fine and honestly they always forget about the toy after, not once has anyone asked it they can play with the toy once it has become a later time, they always move onto something else.
 

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I use/have used time out as part of what IMO is very definitely gentle discipline. I don't always agree with the majority definition of GD here, but I feel I am a gentle and respectful mama.<br><br>
I am not opposed to punishing, gently, if punishment means parent imposed consequences. I also don't think it will give them abandonment issues or scar them for life. I wouldn't put them in a seperate room.<br><br>
That said, I have found time out in some contexts less than effective for us. I used to do time out for harassing the animals - worked better than the other strategies I had at the time (explaining and begging), but it didn't curtail the harassing overall. Finally I installed a gate and would seperate the animals on the other side of the gate (thanks to some mamas here!). That worked really well and now she is much better with them.<br><br>
I have also used time out for refusal to get shoes on when we have to go somewhere NOW. I just say, "Okay time out til you get your shoes on." I even sit next to or near her. That worked like a charm.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>thismama</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7984468"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I have also used time out for refusal to get shoes on when we have to go somewhere NOW. I just say, "Okay time out til you get your shoes on." I even sit next to or near her. That worked like a charm.</div>
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See, while I don't necessarily agree with this, I still don't regard it as un-GD, or even timeout. When I think time-out, I think standing in a corner or being banished to their room. Your way sounds fine.
 

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This may be of some help:<br><a href="http://www.positivediscipline.com/articles/Time_Out_for_Children.html" target="_blank">http://www.positivediscipline.com/ar..._Children.html</a><br><br>
My position is that for most people learning to take a break is a really important skill to have in life. I'd rather not muddle up the possibility of learning that skill by making a punishment. We started with a two year old with the idea that it was time to "take a break". That could be on mom's lap, listening to music, cuddling, with teddy bear, etc. It was just time to calm down and get to the place where we feel better. In time our son started taking a break on his own and that is something he continues to do (at age 10) from time to time when he's frustrated or upset. I also modeled sometimes that I need to walk away and take a break.
 

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I don't know what the "official viewpoint" is,cause I think everyone has their own ideas of timeouts. I,personally,will use timeouts when my kids are becoming so physically violent with each other,or towards me. When they are at the point where talking to them and asking them to not hit each other or throw things at each other,etc,I have to seperate them. And sometimes that seperation will involve putting them in different rooms for a few minutes until they can stop hurting each other. Some people will call that timeout,or even punitive,but whatever. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/shrug.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="shrug"> I call it preventing major injuries. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/loveeyes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Loveeyes">:
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Thank you. I wasn't sure becuase I kept seeing the phrase being used and needed clarification. The main stream way of using TO as a love withdrawl does not fit into my definition of GD either and I was feeling a little uncomfortable.
 

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DS is going through a stage that has me at a loss as to how I should be dealing with it. Most of his behaviour is very easy to deal with but lately there is this persistance and stubborness. For example, he screams - alot - when happy, sad, angry... Now mostly we say things like, 'please dont scream' and he stops, or 'we need to use inside voices that are calm and quiet' or pretend to be mice... I always explain that its OK to be angry/upset but that I dont like him screaming AT me. Sometimes however he just wont stop so after a clear warning of what will happen, I say 'Im going to wait out in the hall/over here/out the door until you have stopped screaming then we can...(continue with whatever) or sometimes I put him out in the hall/over there/out the door. Either way its for about 15 secs because he inevitably screams more when this happens, and then we cuddle and talk about feelings and when its OK to scream etc.<br>
Any suggestions on how this could be handled differently? Im in the process of reading some books mentioned on here but would love some personal advice.<br>
TIA
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>numericmama</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7985796"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Thank you. I wasn't sure becuase I kept seeing the phrase being used and needed clarification. The main stream way of using TO as a love withdrawl does not fit into my definition of GD either and I was feeling a little uncomfortable.</div>
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I've never heard of any parents who give timeouts refer to it as love withdrawal. As I understand it, the purpose of a timeout is for a child to calm down and reflect on his actions.
 

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No, they don't refer to it as a love withdrawl, I do. I am pretty sure that Alfie Kohn does as well, because I picked up the concept in one of my readings and it really ressonated for me.<br><br>
If it is a punitive time out, that is supposed to hurt, that is how I believe the child views it. That's why I am uncomfortable with it. Using a TO in a punitive, intending to learn through pain, would be called discipline by the people who are using it.<br><br>
Just like spanking is discipline to some people (like my parents). I consider it hitting, but they considered it discipline through punishment.<br><br>
I don't think that that is how people are talking about using it here. I think for the most part it is to help calm the child down. Like needing space to get control of themselves, or reading some books in a cozy corner. Or at our worst times, sitting/lying on the bed together and staring out at the big lovely green tree. I was so upset the other day, I had to go and take some space in the back room until I had calmed down again!<br><br>
Love withdrawl is "You are doing X, so you have to go sit in the corner and look at the wall while the rest of us play and ignore you. And if we hear that you are upset about it, heres some more time on the clock!" That type of TO does do harm to attachments and relationships with parents (I believe.)
 

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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/yeahthat.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="yeah that">:
 

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We rarely do time out but when we do we sit right there in front of her for the duration of the TO, no more than 2 min, she usually calms down within a min & we then talk about it, hug, & she carries on with her day.<br><br>
I have noticed that we will go weeks without a TO & then in one day will have 4. Then weeks again go by. Some days she just "needs" a time out & by us sitting there in front of her, I guess you could say it's shared. I get a chance to think about what I should say when she stops flopping around like a fish out of water.<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol">
 
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