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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
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<p>Here is a story from a recent mother i read:</p>
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<div>My dear cousin who I will call D lost her 2 month old son Jayden this past weekend. He had a severe reaction after receiving vaccinations that caused him to have a siezure and bleed out. D is still not taking calls at this time. So I am still unaware of all the details. What she has told me online was that she bf him at 5:30am and he died at 7:10am on Sunday. When I emailed her to encourage her to make sure she had all of his medical records and vaccine lot #'s she assured me they were well aware of what caused the situation and were told by medical staff that it was indeed a vaccine reaction. Not that it should matter but he was a premie. I had someone in another group say it was because he was a premie and someone else claim he must have had an underlying issue. As far as I know there were none and being a premie should not matter.</div>
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<p>Now, i have to wonder, do pro vaxers see that as a child "taking one for the herd"?      and what do they think when they see a story like that?   Do they think, well, something must have been wrong with the child anyway?   Or  it was "meant to be"...</p>
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<p>Good questions, Emmy.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>My son also had a seizure reaction to his 2-month vaccines, and he, too was a premie.  I was also told that his premie status had no bearing on vaccine safety (they didn't bother to tell me vaccine safety has never been tested on premies), and that he was just fine to receive all vaccines on schedule. I was also initially told that it <em>couldn't </em>be a vaccine reaction, because "vaccines don't <em>do</em> that." Thank heavens, the pediatrician and the neurologist both said that yes, vaccines do indeed do that, and they did it in this case, too.</p>
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<p>From the point of view of the mom of the vaccine victim, I can say that I NEVER wanted to "take one for the herd," and refuse to risk that ever again.</p>
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<p>But you asked about pro-vaxers.  I'd suggest that you post this on one of the regular vaccine forums as opposed to the "I don't vax" forum, as I don't think the pro-vaxers come here--but then again, you might not want to, as it would probably start a fight.  Some of those pro-vaxers can be very vicious towards non-vaxers, even towards non-vaxers whose children have had serious vaccine reactions.  My experience with them is that they</p>
<p>1) DO expect us to "take one for the herd"</p>
<p>2) deny that our children even had serious reactions</p>
<p>3) spout drivel about how rare reactions are (if it doesn't happen to you, it must be rare)</p>
<p>4) quote reams of vaccine studies done by the vaccine industry, without admitting the potential for conflict of interest, let alone admitting the glaring flaws in those studies.</p>
 

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<p><br><br>
 </p>
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>emmy526</strong> <a href="/community/t/1348034/tragedy-for-the-greater-good#post_16913843"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br><p> </p>
<p>Here is a story from a recent mother i read:</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Now, i have to wonder, do pro vaxers see that as a child "taking one for the herd"?      and what do they think when they see a story like that?   Do they think, well, something must have been wrong with the child anyway?   Or  it was "meant to be"...</p>
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Im not a provaxer however this is what I have heard some say when a story like this surfaces.</p>
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<p>'Whenever a child loses his life it is a tragedy, however a reaction like this is so incredibly rare - 1 in a million - that no one should take this as a reason to not vaccinate. The benefits still FAR outweigh the risks and this poor child probably had some underlying issue that had not been identified"</p>
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<p>The whole issue of having an underlying medical problem and blaming that is convenient. Lets assume it's true....IMO this is what makes the whole concept of vaccinating so risky. If we cannot tell if our child has some genetic issue or mitochondrial issue (like Hannah Polling) or some other "silent" problem that has not been identified because there are no symptoms and otherwise would not cause any serious problem - then vaccinating truly is like playing Russian Roullette. But then the whole "serious reactions are 1 in a million" is used to justify playing that game.</p>
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<p>Quote:</p>
<div class="quote-container">
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Taximom5</strong> <a href="/community/t/1348034/tragedy-for-the-greater-good#post_16913942"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br><p>But you asked about pro-vaxers.  I'd suggest that you post this on one of the regular vaccine forums as opposed to the "I don't vax" forum, as I don't think the pro-vaxers come here--but then again, you might not want to, as it would probably start a fight.  Some of those pro-vaxers can be very vicious towards non-vaxers, even towards non-vaxers whose children have had serious vaccine reactions.  My experience with them is that they</p>
<p>1) DO expect us to "take one for the herd"</p>
<p>2) deny that our children even had serious reactions</p>
<p>3) spout drivel about how rare reactions are (if it doesn't happen to you, it must be rare)</p>
<p>4) quote reams of vaccine studies done by the vaccine industry, without admitting the potential for conflict of interest, let alone admitting the glaring flaws in those studies.</p>
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5) your anecdotal stories mean nothing...</p>
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Taximom5</strong> <a href="/community/t/1348034/tragedy-for-the-greater-good#post_16913942"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br><p>Good questions, Emmy.</p>
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<p>My son also had a seizure reaction to his 2-month vaccines, and he, too was a premie.  I was also told that his premie status had no bearing on vaccine safety (they didn't bother to tell me vaccine safety has never been tested on premies), and that he was just fine to receive all vaccines on schedule. I was also initially told that it <em>couldn't </em>be a vaccine reaction, because "vaccines don't <em>do</em> that." Thank heavens, the pediatrician and the neurologist both said that yes, vaccines do indeed do that, and they did it in this case, too.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>From the point of view of the mom of the vaccine victim, I can say that I NEVER wanted to "take one for the herd," and refuse to risk that ever again.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>But you asked about pro-vaxers.  I'd suggest that you post this on one of the regular vaccine forums as opposed to the "I don't vax" forum, as I don't think the pro-vaxers come here--but then again, you might not want to, as it would probably start a fight.  Some of those pro-vaxers can be very vicious towards non-vaxers, even towards non-vaxers whose children have had serious vaccine reactions.  My experience with them is that they</p>
<p>1) DO expect us to "take one for the herd"</p>
<p>2) deny that our children even had serious reactions</p>
<p>3) spout drivel about how rare reactions are (if it doesn't happen to you, it must be rare)</p>
<p>4) quote reams of vaccine studies done by the vaccine industry, without admitting the potential for conflict of interest, let alone admitting the glaring flaws in those studies.</p>
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yes i thought it would start something totally off topic on the other forum, so i posted it here to get a perspective opinion of other non-vaccinating parents.  </p>
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<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>miriam</strong> <a href="/community/t/1348034/tragedy-for-the-greater-good#post_16914287"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><p>Surely keeping the baby away from other sick persons would help prevent an illness as pertussis or diphtheria for a preemie until he was healthy enough to get vaxed. <strong>Odd thinking, that a baby would have to be healthy enough to get vaxed.  A contradiction in terms</strong>?</p>
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Excellent point, miriam.</p>
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<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>slmommy</strong> <a href="/community/t/1348034/tragedy-for-the-greater-good#post_16914265"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br><p>Quote:</p>
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5) your anecdotal stories mean nothing...</p>
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<br><br><p>But "My grandmother almost DIED from measles" is an acceptable anecdote.</p>
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<p>That poor baby.  My kids were both preemies and vaccinated on schedule at ages that make me shudder when I think about it.  <img alt="guilty.gif" id="user_yui_3_4_1_2_1331937586624_164" src="http://files.mothering.com/images/smilies/guilty.gif">  I was admittedly ignorant and didn't know what I was allowing, nor what the risks were.</p>
 

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<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>Taximom5</strong> <a href="/community/t/1348034/tragedy-for-the-greater-good#post_16913942"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br><p>Good questions, Emmy.</p>
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<p>My son also had a seizure reaction to his 2-month vaccines, and he, too was a premie.  I was also told that his premie status had no bearing on vaccine safety (they didn't bother to tell me vaccine safety has never been tested on premies), and that he was just fine to receive all vaccines on schedule. I was also initially told that it <em>couldn't </em>be a vaccine reaction, because "vaccines don't <em>do</em> that." Thank heavens, the pediatrician and the neurologist both said that yes, vaccines do indeed do that, and they did it in this case, too.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>From the point of view of the mom of the vaccine victim, I can say that I NEVER wanted to "take one for the herd," and refuse to risk that ever again.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>But you asked about pro-vaxers.  I'd suggest that you post this on one of the regular vaccine forums as opposed to the "I don't vax" forum, as I don't think the pro-vaxers come here--but then again, you might not want to, as it would probably start a fight.  Some of those pro-vaxers can be very vicious towards non-vaxers, even towards non-vaxers whose children have had serious vaccine reactions.  My experience with them is that they</p>
<p>1) DO expect us to "take one for the herd"</p>
<p>2) deny that our children even had serious reactions</p>
<p>3) spout drivel about how rare reactions are (if it doesn't happen to you, it must be rare)</p>
<p>4) quote reams of vaccine studies done by the vaccine industry, without admitting the potential for conflict of interest, let alone admitting the glaring flaws in those studies.</p>
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Taximom, I am shocked that you get the same level of viciousness from the pro-vax camp :(  I can't imagine how scary that experience must have been for you and I'm so glad that your son is ok.  My heart is breaking for the friend of the original poster.  I think deep down most people are just terrified and unwilling to imagine that anything bad can happen to them or their children...that can make them extremely irrational.  </p>
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<p>I think some people straight up think parents are lying when they say their child was harmed by a vaccine.  Alternately they just think parents are delusional and looking for a scapegoat for a negative event.<br>
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>miriam</strong> <a href="/community/t/1348034/tragedy-for-the-greater-good#post_16914744"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br><p>emmy526, the woman who recounted that story is lucky that she has not been falsely accused of SBS or falsely accused of infanticide.</p>
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<p>Yes.</p>
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<p>I was told in my refresher course for first aide and CPR at the Red Cross that ALL cases of SIDS in the U.S. are treated by the local police departments as homocides with the parents being the first and primary "persons of interest".  </p>
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<p>yes she is lucky..  i found it amazing the drs actually admitted it was the vaxes, and the mom was on top of getting the lot #'s and making sure appropriate reports are filed.  <br>
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<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>emmy526</strong> <a href="/community/t/1348034/tragedy-for-the-greater-good#post_16914765"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br><p><strong>yes she is lucky..</strong>  i found it amazing the drs actually admitted it was the vaxes, and the mom was on top of getting the lot #'s and making sure appropriate reports are filed.  <br>
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<p>Bolding mine.  It is hard to use the word "lucky" in this situation <img alt="greensad.gif" id="user_yui_3_4_1_2_1331949484462_164" src="http://files.mothering.com/images/smilies/greensad.gif"></p>
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<p>I do know you mean no disrespect though.</p>
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<p><span><img alt="disappointed.gif" id="user_yui_3_4_1_2_1331949369964_174" src="http://files.mothering.com/images/smilies/disappointed.gif"> a mom lost her 2mo baby b/c of vax and she is "lucky" that she has not been investigated for sbs/homicide, and "lucky" her drs. admit it was vax.........  terrible. (not implying you guys are terrible - the situation/state of things!)</span></p>
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<p>oops - we posted at same time kathy... my thoughts exactly!</p>
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
<p>the lucky part for the mom is knowing the vaccines killed the baby and she knows the cause, and the drs <strong>willingly admitted it.</strong>.......not so lucky parents are put thru the mill of lies by the industry, when it was clearly the vaccines that killed an infant and no one wants to take responsibility, and the parents go around in circles for years before they get an answer about the death...and often its not the answer they know in their hearts to be true..its what the industry told them killed their baby.  </p>
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
<p>here is what is happening to many parents</p>
<p><a href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2075884/Parents-guard-accusations-babies-shaken-death-continue-grow.html#ixzz1h12719QL" style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px;border-top-width:0px;border-right-width:0px;border-bottom-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;font-weight:bold;font-size:12px;font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;vertical-align:baseline;color:rgb(68,68,68);line-height:12px;" target="_blank">http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2075884/Parents-guard-accusations-babies-shaken-death-continue-grow.html#ixzz1h12719QL</a></p>
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<h1 style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:.5em;border-top-width:0px;border-right-width:0px;border-bottom-width:0px;border-left-width:0px;font-size:3em;font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;vertical-align:baseline;color:rgb(17,17,17);line-height:1;"> </h1>
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<div>The disturbing reason why a growing number of parents are being falsely accused of shaking their babies to death</div>
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<p>This whole thread makes me cry.  That poor, poor mom.  I can't even imagine.</p>
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<p>I can still hear the ped telling me "It's COINCIDENCE" when Thomas couldn't stop screaming after his vaccines, and that there was "no such thing" as vaccines causing brain swelling.  (I had never heard of Cri encéphalique; how many parents even consider that when their doctor tells them it's abuse not to vaccinate??) </p>
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<p>I thank God for sending me one friend who told me to get another opinion, and that the new ped admitted that T was having reactions.  I can't imagine what would have happened if we vaxed beyond 6 months.  Even with mild autism and all the developmental battles, I know very well it could have been much worse.</p>
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<p>On a side note about doctors recognizing (and admitting to) vaccine reactions... at T's 5 year visit, his pediatrician was not himself.  He admitted that the pressure he was getting from insurance and the AAP for allowing non-vaxers in his practice was unrelenting.  It's sick.</p>
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
<p><a href="http://www.ias.org.nz/natural-immunity/so-how-does-a-mother-feel-when-her-baby-is-dead-from-vaccines-and-all-she-hears-from-doctors-the-government-and-media-is-that-vaccines-are-safe-and-effective/" target="_blank">http://www.ias.org.nz/natural-immunity/so-how-does-a-mother-feel-when-her-baby-is-dead-from-vaccines-and-all-she-hears-from-doctors-the-government-and-media-is-that-vaccines-are-safe-and-effective/</a></p>
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<h1 class="entry-title" style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;color:rgb(17,17,17);font-size:2.2em;line-height:1.364em;font-family:Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif;"> </h1>
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<h1 class="entry-title" style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;font-size:2.2em;line-height:1.364em;"><span style="font-size:18px;">So how does a mother feel when her baby is dead from vaccines and all she hears from doctors, the government and media is that vaccines are safe and effective?</span></h1>
<p class="headline_meta" style="font-style:italic;line-height:1.8em;color:rgb(136,136,136);"><span style="font-size:18px;">by <span class="author vcard fn" style="padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px;margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;font-style:normal;text-transform:uppercase;letter-spacing:1px;">ADMIN</span> on <abbr class="published" style="padding-top:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px;margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;line-height:1em;text-transform:uppercase;letter-spacing:1px;border-bottom-style:none;font-style:normal;" title="2011-12-10">DECEMBER 10, 2011</abbr></span></p>
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
<p> i own  a  forum on supporting parents who choose not to vaccinate, and it saddens me to say, in the last 3 weeks, i have heard now of 3, yes 3 babies dying after their 2month shots.   I am actually outraged...and sickened that there is no real investigation going on into all babies that die within a 48hr period after being vaccinated.  </p>
 

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<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>emmy526</strong> <a href="/community/t/1348034/tragedy-for-the-greater-good#post_16924001"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style=""></a><br><br><p> i own  a  forum on supporting parents who choose not to vaccinate, and it saddens me to say, in the last 3 weeks, i have heard now of 3, yes 3 babies dying after their 2month shots.   I am actually outraged...and sickened that there is no real investigation going on into all babies that die within a 48hr period after being vaccinated.  </p>
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<p><br><span><img alt="censored.gif" id="user_yui_3_4_1_2_1332684947484_184" src="http://files.mothering.com/images/smilies/censored.gif">  Those poor babies and families.</span></p>
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<p>Can you give them each other's contact information, and maybe together they can contact the local news or something?  I doubt anything would come of it, as how strongly the media is controlled, but you never know.</p>
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