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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I was thinking about ways of making UC more acceptable to society And also ways of offering to UCers a resource that is geared to them, their unique concerns, questions, etc.<br><br>
Ladies, what are your thoughts about having a UC mentor program? Setting it up much like a childbirth educator program (or the birthing from within mentor program) where after a person goes through she is a "certified UC mentor"?<br><br>
What problems/benefits do you see with this? Do you think it would be worthwhile to pursue or do you think UCers as a group are too small to make it worthwhile? Or do you think it might legitimize UC a bit so more women and their spouses are open to the idea? I know there will always be naysayers just as there are for homebirth and midwifery......but do you think having an accredited program would legitimize it a bit? It isn't important to me personally, but I know how our society loves credentials.<br><br>
I don't have the attention span or the professional savy to tackle something like this, but I know when I was pregnant with my first, I would have been more than happy to take such a class or have such a mentor, so I wonder if others would be too.<br><br>
Any Thoughts?
 

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I like the idea of women choosing mentors very much! I think you're on to something, but I don't like the idea of becoming like midwives. Or running something modeled after midwifery care. (not that you were saying that at all <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"> ) I'd love the idea of a phone support list, or a network of experienced UCers who pool their knowledge and experience and have it available for those who would like to tap into that.
 

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I would worry that if it were too "credentialized" that it would be a target of legal action in the event something did go wrong, however that said, I would really be interested in this.<br><br>
I'm wanting a UP/UC right now, but since this is my first pregnancy I've been trying to find (ok, thinking about trying to find) a midwife for prenatal care, *only* to have someone to talk to about the labor and birth. If there were a UC mama that I clicked with, I would so much prefer that. And, I would be willing to pay for it.<br><br>
I'm not sure what the best format would be, but on the user-end, my idea would be to meet 2-3 times over the course of the pregnancy, and then be reasonably available by phone/e-mail for encouragement. Of course, if it turned out to be more like a childbirth class-style, I would still be interested.
 

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Laurie Morgan and some others actually set up something like what Mama in the Forest described. It was called Jubilee for something like Joyous Birth League. Anyone remember that?<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>rajahkat</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/9051176"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">...Ladies, what are your thoughts about having a UC mentor program? Setting it up much like a childbirth educator program (or the birthing from within mentor program) where after a person goes through she is a "certified UC mentor"?</div>
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The mentoring and certification strikes me as hierarchal, something most UCers are trying to avoid as they tune into themselves and their bodies.<br><br>
Another issue I'd have with it is what would be considered core competencies? Some of the husband/wife birthers come to UC as a sacred culmination of the divinely given sex act. Some come to it as a backlash against powers that suppress and oppress women. Some come to it out of research on the natural physiology of birth. Some are just big DIYers and mimic a lot of medical interventions at home without birth professionals present.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Do you think it would be worthwhile to pursue or do you think UCers as a group are too small to make it worthwhile?</td>
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Aside from my philosophical concerns, I think such a group would work much better on line than in person. As a public health doctoral student told me, "You're an outlier." In the dominant birthing culture OOH births are fringe so we UCers must be the lint left in the dryer trap. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/winky.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Wink"> I think it would be a very rare area where UCers are concentrated enough in the population to pull it off in person.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Or do you think it might legitimize UC a bit so more women and their spouses are open to the idea? I know there will always be naysayers just as there are for homebirth and midwifery......but do you think having an accredited program would legitimize it a bit?</td>
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I don't think any accreditation program would make folks open to UC. If they're the type who would consider UC whacked they'd just see any program accredited by UCers just as off the wall and dangerous.<br><br>
I think what makes people open to the idea of UC is hearing the stories of others who've done it. They can get excited to listen to their own intuition and get the courage to work through their own fears and then objectively analyze the fears others try to lay on them. In that respect I think the UC board here at MDC is a wonderful service. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/orngbiggrin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="orange big grin"> I also think UC meet-ups are a good in areas where there are enough people to support one.<br><br>
~BV
 

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As a mom TTC and planning a UC, I would love this kind of resource. Just to have someone to talk to who thinks what I am doing is "normal" would be awsome.<br>
Alicia
 

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i think its a wonderful idea, and would love to be a part of something like that, both giving and recieving support.<br><br>
BUT...<br><br>
unfortunatley, what xekomaya said is very true. I'm sure if there were a problem, or even a perceived problem, someone could say "well my UC mentor said to do XYZ" and it could turn into a huge legal issue. Its very sad, but that is the society we live in. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad">
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
<i>"well my UC mentor said to do XYZ" and it could turn into a huge legal issue. Its very sad, but that is the society we live in.</i><br><br>
Well, that's a scary thought. I wonder to what extent this is a true legal concern though. I guess the same could be said of any childbirth educator though.....right? "My childbirth educator said to do this" But you don't see many childbirth educators getting sued. I supose it's all in the wording, and legal documents could be signed that the parents understood that no outside person was "responsible" for the outcome of the birth....<br><br>
"<i>The mentoring and certification strikes me as hierarchal, something most UCers are trying to avoid as they tune into themselves and their bodies.</i> "<br><br>
I agree it wouldn't be for everyone. Like I said, I'm not into certification for anything as a rule. To me it just seems like someone's way to make money when an individual can really learn everything on their own (vague enough for you?<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"> ) I wonder though if some sort of certification would help ease the minds of nervous husbands.....those who tend to like the idea of a professional for backup. I don't see mentoring as hierarchal. I see it as basically what we do here.
 

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mostly what i think women planning a UC might benefit from is a friend to talk to. that should be free! anyone here who wants a mom who has UCed to talk to is welcome to pm me with their number. i have free LD in the usa and while i dont have unlimited time, i can always find time to chat on the phone while i cook, make cheese, can produce, etc! (eta: i have been an active member here for 5 years and am def. not a weirdo. so fear not)<br><br>
i dont mean to just post to solicit calls, but really i think that it is our lack of communal support that gets us birthin' mamas down. a grassroots, free! effort to remedy that is what we need.<br><br>
tabitha
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">*only* to have someone to talk to about the labor and birth.</td>
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<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">mostly what i think women planning a UC might benefit from is a friend to talk to. that should be free! [...] really i think that it is our lack of communal support that gets us birthin' mamas down. a grassroots, free! effort to remedy that is what we need.</td>
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I agree.<br><br>
I tried a stint as "childbirth educator" a while back and it really didn't sit right with me. The reason being is that our societal perception of what that is is this hierarchical-expert-professional thing, and that's not where I'm at. I envision something that's just woman to woman, sharing. And personally I wouldn't want to be paid. An exchange of money introduces all sorts of issues that wouldn't be there otherwise. Gifts though would be okay. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>rajahkat</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/9052231"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
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Well, that's a scary thought. I wonder to what extent this is a true legal concern though. I guess the same could be said of any childbirth educator though.....right? "My childbirth educator said to do this" But you don't see many childbirth educators getting sued. I supose it's all in the wording, and legal documents could be signed that the parents understood that no outside person was "responsible" for the outcome of the birth....</div>
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From my perspective, that's because there is another care provider to point fingers at in the case of a bad outcome.<br><br>
Scenario:<br><br>
Mom is back lashing against a bad hospital experience and lack of MWs in her area. She decides to UC and hires/contacts a mentor in her area. Mentor agrees to attend her birth as labor support. Baby dies. CPS and authorities are called in. Mom points finger directly at mentor to get self off the hook. Mentor is charged with practicing midwifery illegally. In the best case outcome she gets dragged through the dirt. Worst case, she gets convicted of manslaughter.<br><br>
I hate for my brain to work that way, but people you think you know can turn on your when in extreme situations.<br><br>
Online though, I think it's an excellent idea. Sort of like what we have here without the restrictive UA and more formal.<br><br>
ETA that the Trust Birth Initiative sounds something like what you are talking about. I was chosen to be a Facilitator but decided to turn it down. I felt they were too restrictive.
 

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Some thoughts on the legality issue...<br><br>
I'm a Bradley method instructor, and in our training program (as well as the doula training program I did through DONA), it was stressed very clearly that we are NOT to practice medicine or give medical advice. Period. So as a CBE, I can say to a woman who is past 40 weeks, "some women find it is helpful to do x,y,z." Or at a recent birth as a doula, my client looked to me when deciding about whether to get a vitamin K shot, and I listed benefits, risks, and the particular details of her situation that I thought would be helpful (that her baby had a swollen area on his head, which might indicate more of a need for blood clotting assistance if he happened to have a vit. K deficiency), and then left it to her to make the decision. So never jumped in and said, "Do this" but rather "here are some options/info that might help you."<br><br>
I do think if there were any sort of mentoring program that was formalized, it would be a legal nightmare. Especially in situations where, for birth, there's not just the possibility of getting sued by an individual but also getting prosecuted for practicing medicine w/o a license....it would be too risky to me.
 

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I was actually just talking to my husband about something similar yesterday. I think, though, that I would like to have UC 'peers' as opposed to 'mentors'. I would absolutely love to share help with others in this department; to receive verbal and/or in person support (you know, the whole IRL thing!). I also would not be comfortable exchanging money. I would do it simply because I want to spread the empowerment! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/loveeyes.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Loveeyes">:
 

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<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">I'm a Bradley method instructor, and in our training program (as well as the doula training program I did through DONA), it was stressed very clearly that we are NOT to practice medicine or give medical advice. Period. So as a CBE, I can say to a woman who is past 40 weeks, "some women find it is helpful to do x,y,z." Or at a recent birth as a doula, my client looked to me when deciding about whether to get a vitamin K shot, and I listed benefits, risks, and the particular details of her situation that I thought would be helpful (that her baby had a swollen area on his head, which might indicate more of a need for blood clotting assistance if he happened to have a vit. K deficiency), and then left it to her to make the decision. So never jumped in and said, "Do this" but rather "here are some options/info that might help you."</td>
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this is exactly what i used to want from my drs. ! i would always complain that they wouldn't give me any information, wouldn't tell me all the options, and just told me what to do like i was an idiot. will you be my dr. , jster? <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"><br><br>
i really like the idea of having a UC mentor -- but not someone who's necessarily certified or a "professional" ... maybe just someone who's had more babies/been to more natural births than i have. i've only had two births, one UC, and was at my mom's birth with my brother which had terrible interventions. i know that many women have more experience than me and i think i and my family would benefit from that. in fact, i think this is what midwifes and child birth educators should be doing, period. like pp said about giving info./options based on their knowledge/experience. if i thought a midwife in my area would treat me like that, i would totally pay for that service.<br><br>
the thing about certification, is who decides what it takes to UC? for me, it would be nothing more than lots of experience/research and inherent trust in the human body to give birth. for most mainstreamers, it would probably have a lot more to do with how much the person knows about what to do in an emergency (or, rather, what a medical professional would do in an emergency). for this reason i don't think it would bring people into UC. or, if it was more medicalized and it did help mainstream people feel comfortable w/ UC, it would probably put off a lot of people in the UC community. there just seems to be a basic rift in the way people think about birth/the medical profession/etc., and i don't think any amount of accreditation will change that. if people can't accept it when i tell them what i'd do in an emergency/why natural birth is safer, why would it matter to them if i had a piece of paper saying exactly what i had just told them, kwim?<br><br>
eta: i also would be really wary of having someone at my birth who was certified/had anything to do with being a "professional" about birth (even a doula or a childbirth educator). it just seems like that would make it really easy for someone to claim they were practicing medicine/being a midwife, ya know? i'd hate to put someone in that kind of position.
 

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My UC 'mentor' is a woman at my church who has 13 children and had seven of them by herself. She's great to talk to! She's also the homeschooling veteran I turn to for advice.<br><br>
One day I hope I can share my wisdom and bless others the way she has blessed me!
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Thanks for your thoughts ladies.
 

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i think circulating some kind of uc contact list would be cool- women could contact people in their area.<br><br>
i was thinking of trying to become a "birth counselor", to sit and talk with women about what the choices are. and if it's a birth attendant they really want i could do that, but not having that as my agenda, you know? presenting a spectrum of choices, having lists of obs, midwives on hand for them as well as a uc contact list and pamphlets on things to consider for all the choices...just thinking of what I would've liked to have had access to as i started having kids years ago.
 

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my UC mentors before my UC were all these great UCers at MDC <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/wink1.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="wink1">
 

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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lurk.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lurk">: Thinking...
 

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I'd love to be apart of something like this. I was once interested in helping out at a Birthing from Within class, but then when I really looked into it I saw the hierarchical structure and it didn't resonate.<br><br>
I really resonate with the idea of being a friend when it comes to UC support. When I was planning my UC a year ago I would have loved to have someone I could call or meet with to talk about different questions or concerns that came up...or just to sit and chat about it in general. There's so few women who have even heard of unassisted birth, let alone those who've actually had one or are planning one...this idea might very well be the glue that binds us as well as the much needed voice behind it.<br><br>
As far as legalities go, we could have some sort of waiver made up by a lawyer that serves to combat any legal issues that may come up due to the advice that's given.<br><br>
Since there's so few of us, having a phone list is probably our best bet rather than trying to match together people who live in the same area. If someone here is in your area, great, if not, there's still other people you can call.
 

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Maybe we could have an MDC phone list of women who have UC'd before and who would like to participate in being a 'friend' or 'mentor'. Perhaps we could have a sticky with a list of women who want to do this, and then anyone seeking a mentor could PM the woman for her phone number. (or email, or however she would like to communicate)<br><br>
I'd be very happy to have my name included. Not that I have any wisdom. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"> I have had a lot of UC's though. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol">
 
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