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I work in a children's hospital as a secretary. Where I sit is right across from the PIICU which mainly houses babies. I hear them cry all the time and it breaks my heart.<br><br>
I went in there recently because I offer to hold the babies sometimes to calm them down and the baby in question was a 3 week old infant and she was crying because she wanted to be held. Her nurse said that she was spoiled. I laughed and said that you can't spoil a baby. She said very haughtily that you could and she *knew* because she had four children. She said that it was doing a great disservice to a baby to hold them 24 hours a day. I walked away thinking about how ignorant her comments were.<br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/irked.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="irked">:<br><br>
First off, I think it would be quite impossible to hold your baby 24 hours a day. Even mothers who co sleep cannot hold their babies 24 hours a day.<br><br>
Second off, it's been proven that it's highly dangerous to let the baby CIO. It can cause respiratory problems and brain problems, plus it's not good for them to feel alone. People must think that babies are out to get them or something. Maybe, out to make them do whatever they want. You know, because a 3 week old baby can coerce a person logically.<br><br>
Third of all, I just peeked in there and the baby's father is holding her and guess what? Not a sound, not a peep.<br><br>
It just bothers me so much to see this here. I know very well that mainstream parenting is considered to be the best and normal but it's very much far from that.<br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad">
 

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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/disappointed.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="disappointed">
 

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I'd be upset too! It's amazing how some people can think a child that young is 'manipulating' them! That's so sad! Granted a baby will cry, it happens and is unavoidable, but to just let them cry and not do something about it if you can, that's horrible. Poor thing.<br>
I hate you have to tolerate that. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/gloomy.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Gloomy">:
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I mean, babies that young have barely just come out of the womb! They are used to being held and touched. What else would you expect?
 

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Sorry, mama nurse chiming in. I CANNOT take care of and hold crying babies all day long. Oh how i wish i could. I really really want to, i'd love doing that. But it's IMPOSSIBLE. Do I wish we could? Absolutely!!!! I think how your hospital treated you personally stinks!! I know our secretaries here (who mind you act as bodygaurds due to the sheer amount of DCFS and CPS cases) entertain and console babies all the time. If we can we just pick em up and let them play right outside the nurses station (there's a play area)<br><br>
I understand what you're saying, and I understand why you think these little clients have unmet needs that could turn into a bigger health problems, but simply put- we don't have enough staff:client ratios and unfortunately hospitals don't have a real problem with the way things are run. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"> Maybe it's just the hospital i'm currently in and I could be wrong, but they're in no rush to hire more nurses/CNAs/secretaries to take care of babies emotional needs.<br><br>
I would really be interested in learning about any type of research based material that was peer reviewed and can be found in a legitimate medical journal outlaying all the health detriments you've stated in your OP. Not trying to bash you, but I think it would make a super interesting research article!! I'm all about the evidence based practice <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"> Obviously I know vitals will be elevated based on crying, but i'm really interested in the brain coorelation.
 

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Does your hospital not have volunteer holders?<br><br>
Ours started out with ones for abandoned AIDS babies and abuse victims in the hospital, but expanded it to the NICU. (w/ parents permission of course, and w/ babies who can be held. Others are "finger stroked" in their isolette)<br><br>
I know my mom volunteered for quite some time. However she got burnt out, as apparently a lot of volunteers do, due to sadness in NICUs sometimes. But she said it was a wonderful thing for her as well. And she learned a whole lot about hospitals and medical terminology as well. (We both love to learn anything about anything)<br><br>
And one of the babies she held was a 26 weeker who's parents had to go back to work 2 weeks ppartum. She held that baby for 16 weeks. (Not contnuosly of course) They still keep in touch, and this was 3 years ago. And I dunno if there is ANY correlation at all, but for a 26 weeker she is doing fantastic, right on level with development and the only problem she has from being so early is some hearing loss in her right ear.<br><br>
Steph
 

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Poor babies <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"> . When my DD had heart surgery last summer, there was a newborn/older preemie a couple of beds over. All by himself for the 2 days we were there. The mom showed up ONCE & held him for maybe 15 minutes & was gone again. That was the last time I saw her. That baby was held by the nurses as much as possible, but it was heartbreaking to hear him cry <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"> . We never left DD except to eat & sleep, plus we had our older DD with too.<br><br>
What is up with this "babies are manipulators" & the whole detachment/tough love parenting? Why are people in such a hurry to get away from their kids? Why are they afraid to love them the way they should?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>MissSavannahsMommy</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7911038"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Sorry, mama nurse chiming in. I CANNOT take care of and hold crying babies all day long. Oh how i wish i could. I really really want to, i'd love doing that. But it's IMPOSSIBLE. Do I wish we could? Absolutely!!!! I think how your hospital treated you personally stinks!! I know our secretaries here (who mind you act as bodygaurds due to the sheer amount of DCFS and CPS cases) entertain and console babies all the time. If we can we just pick em up and let them play right outside the nurses station (there's a play area)<br><br>
I understand what you're saying, and I understand why you think these little clients have unmet needs that could turn into a bigger health problems, but simply put- we don't have enough staff:client ratios and unfortunately hospitals don't have a real problem with the way things are run. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"> Maybe it's just the hospital i'm currently in and I could be wrong, but they're in no rush to hire more nurses/CNAs/secretaries to take care of babies emotional needs.<br><br>
I would really be interested in learning about any type of research based material that was peer reviewed and can be found in a legitimate medical journal outlaying all the health detriments you've stated in your OP. Not trying to bash you, but I think it would make a super interesting research article!! I'm all about the evidence based practice <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"> Obviously I know vitals will be elevated based on crying, but i'm really interested in the brain coorelation.</div>
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In our PIICU, they only only have beds for 2 to 3 children. And this is at night when we are not busy at all. I have gone in there and seen them just sitting around talking or playing games on the internet or something not pertaining to work while a baby just cries and cries.<br><br>
I understand what you are saying. I'm not meaning to say that all nurses are like that, cause they aren't. I hope I didn't offend you.<br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile">
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>MissSavannahsMommy</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7911038"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Sorry, mama nurse chiming in. I CANNOT take care of and hold crying babies all day long. Oh how i wish i could. I really really want to, i'd love doing that. But it's IMPOSSIBLE. Do I wish we could? Absolutely!!!! I think how your hospital treated you personally stinks!! I know our secretaries here (who mind you act as bodygaurds due to the sheer amount of DCFS and CPS cases) entertain and console babies all the time. If we can we just pick em up and let them play right outside the nurses station (there's a play area)<br><br>
I understand what you're saying, and I understand why you think these little clients have unmet needs that could turn into a bigger health problems, but simply put- we don't have enough staff:client ratios and unfortunately hospitals don't have a real problem with the way things are run. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"> Maybe it's just the hospital i'm currently in and I could be wrong, but they're in no rush to hire more nurses/CNAs/secretaries to take care of babies emotional needs.<br><br>
I would really be interested in learning about any type of research based material that was peer reviewed and can be found in a legitimate medical journal outlaying all the health detriments you've stated in your OP. Not trying to bash you, but I think it would make a super interesting research article!! I'm all about the evidence based practice <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"> Obviously I know vitals will be elevated based on crying, but i'm really interested in the brain coorelation.</div>
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If I'm understanding her correctly, I think that the op was more bothered by the attitude of the nurse than the fact that she wasn't holding the baby. Of course there are other things that they have to do as well, but for her to actually think that a 3 week old baby is "spoiled" is just insane.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>MissSavannahsMommy</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7911038"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I would really be interested in learning about any type of research based material that was peer reviewed and can be found in a legitimate medical journal outlaying all the health detriments you've stated in your OP. Not trying to bash you, but I think it would make a super interesting research article!! I'm all about the evidence based practice <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"> Obviously I know vitals will be elevated based on crying, but i'm really interested in the brain coorelation.</div>
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Not the study itself, but an article on a study at Harvard:<br><a href="http://www.sleepnet.com/infant3/messages/534.html" target="_blank">http://www.sleepnet.com/infant3/messages/534.html</a>
 

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Yikes <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"> I cringe and feel pretty sad when parents tell me that holding babies will spoil them, especially such young babies. I feel sad because this means that they probably will fight their instinct to carry their own kids when their children need to be held close. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad">
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>mommyofmany</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7911198"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Poor babies <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"> . When my DD had heart surgery last summer, there was a newborn/older preemie a couple of beds over. All by himself for the 2 days we were there. The mom showed up ONCE & held him for maybe 15 minutes & was gone again. That was the last time I saw her. That baby was held by the nurses as much as possible, but it was heartbreaking to hear him cry <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"> . We never left DD except to eat & sleep, plus we had our older DD with too.<br><br>
What is up with this "babies are manipulators" & the whole detachment/tough love parenting? Why are people in such a hurry to get away from their kids? Why are they afraid to love them the way they should?</div>
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When my second child was born, he ended up in the NICU for a week. My husband had to get back to work for us to pay bills and I had another child at home. I could not stay at the hospital all day long. I would go in the afternoon, while a SIL watched our other child, and DH would pick me up after work and spend a little time with our son, and we would go home. I had to skip a couple of days because I got sick. I pumped and DH took the milk to the hospital before work.<br><br>
Would I have liked to have spent all of my time at the hospital? Yes. But, I had no way to do it at that time. Our other child was under 2 and being at the hospital all day would <b>not</b> have been something he could have done, nor could I have dealt with him being postpartum after a rough delivery. My own family was 1000 miles away. I simply did the best I could.<br><br>
Maybe this mother lived far away or had no help.
 

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Personally maybe next time mention something to the parent...say how glad you are when he/she are able to come out because the nurses 'don't have time' to hold their baby and it's so sad to hear him cry all the time. That way the father knows his child is being neglected when he's not there and can complain to the powers that be.<br><br>
Since from what you describe it's not a time contraint, it's simply a nurse being a UA violation.<br><br>
Poor babies...
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>shaykismama</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7911923"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">If I'm understanding her correctly, I think that the op was more bothered by the attitude of the nurse than the fact that she wasn't holding the baby. Of course there are other things that they have to do as well, but for her to actually think that a 3 week old baby is "spoiled" is just insane.</div>
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<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/yeahthat.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="yeah that">: I'm a nurse too, and the attitude of that nurse made me want to spit fire. She shouldn't be working peds with that cold, calloused of an attitude. Gross. Poor kids.
 

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Yes, please be careful about assuming you know about the situation, if both parents (or even one) can't be there 24/7 like you can.<br><br>
When my boys were born, one of them picked up a staph infection in the hospital. Which we didn't discover until he crashed out less than 24 hours after we all were discharged. He needed an emergency blood transfusion at our hospital, and then had to be medivaced to Children's. Meanwhile, I was at home with the tinier twin, very ill myself and recovering from a cesarean and other complications. Dh commuted several times per day betwen our home and Children's so that he could deliver my milk to our DS who was in the hospital. I 'only' made it to Children's once, and spent a lot of that time vomiting in the bathroom because of the pain and vertigo I was still experiencing, so I just decided it was best to not take up more time and resources and energy directed at ME instead of my sick baby (plus my other baby would not have been allowed to stay overnight, though my DH and I would have been welcome, and he was nursing every two hours round the clock, obviously).<br><br>
Thank god when I did come, I didn't have some stranger come and tell me in a round about way that I should be there more often, though it wouldn't surprise me if somebody thought it (though who knows, I'm also relatively certain that most people focus on their sick child, if they're in the PICU). Did I feel guilty, yes. But could I have really done things 'better', no.<br><br>
I've chosen to release my despair in those early weeks of Tom's life. I think if someone is going to hang on to the despair/perhaps incorrect perception they're projecting on to someone ELSE, that says a lot more about them than it does about the parent they're despairing of.<br><br>
Just be gentle, and careful, about what you assume. And personally, I don't think I'd hint at anything a PICU parent should be doing. A simple, "I'm sorry you're going through this, it's so hard to feel so helpless," and a readiness to touch someone if they need it should suffice.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>kireiemiri</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7911301"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">In our PIICU, they only only have beds for 2 to 3 children. And this is at night when we are not busy at all. I have gone in there and seen them just sitting around talking or playing games on the internet or something not pertaining to work while a baby just cries and cries.<br><br>
I understand what you are saying. I'm not meaning to say that all nurses are like that, cause they aren't. I hope I didn't offend you.<br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"></div>
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Okay, now THAT is inexcusable. Only 3 beds and they can't comfort the babies! Our floor has almost 50 beds up on it and they're either DCFS restricted (as in 'parental units' ... or lack of parental units i suppose cannot visit their children)<br><br>
I totally understand where you're coming from then, and as another poster stated, that nurse perhaps might consider a small career change. People who somewhat lack compassion and become "immune" to pediatric emotions should not be employed as a pediatric nurse. It takes a super special nurse to be a pediatric nurse. I love love love kids but I really don't like sick kids. I'm just up there now doing a rotation.<br><br>
The internet and chatting away thing is totally inexcusable. I barely sit down (and when i do sit down, it's to chart) and trsut me, there is no internet time. Oh how i wish there was time for the internet LOL!!!
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>JamesMama</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7913106"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Personally maybe next time mention something to the parent...say how glad you are when he/she are able to come out because the nurses 'don't have time' to hold their baby and it's so sad to hear him cry all the time. That way the father knows his child is being neglected when he's not there and can complain to the powers that be.</div>
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Sorry but that totally degrades the trust not only of the parent capaibilities but also the nurses capabilities. You have no idea why there aren't parents there to watch over the child 24/7. Would that be the ideal situation? Absolutely, but unfortunately that's not always the case. You can't go up to a parent and claim that their child is a victim of neglect without knowing specifics about the situation.<br><br>
That would inflict nothing but guilt to the parents to have an "outsider" comment about how much their kid cries and how their needs aren't being met by the hospital staff! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/irked.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="irked">: Honestly, that would be grounds for termination if a higher up found out about that being said behind the staffs back.
 

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I (as a parent) wish that someone had told me that my daughter was crying so uncontrollably in NICU she stopped breathing. They didn't tell me for a few days afterwards. I'd do whatever it took to get myself, a grandparent, or family friend in there, even if I was sick and still admitted.<br><br>
Crying is extremely stressful on the infant, probably moreso the premature or physically distressed. The book "The Science of Parenting" by Margot Sunderland has many wonderful, easy-to-read, well-illustrated, scientifically-supported pages on the physiological response to stress, including later-developing problems with brain growth and stress regulation.<br><br>
Might be something to easily photocopy and stick in her box?<br><br>
I'd wonder how great Nurse Know-it-all's relationship IS with her four children?
 

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i was there for my baby almost constantly. I never even heard her cry. two years later I found out she cried so hard while I was gone that she had gone into convulsions. I was fortunate that I could spend time with her because I didn't have other children and lived close by. but thanks to the march of dimes and their push for regional medicine it is one of the only high tech NICUs for hundreds and hundreds of miles (actually there are two top rated NICUs about 2 miles from each other - seriously they are going to meet in their middle soon - and the next one is at least 3 hours away) and some parents travel hours back and forth if they have a very sick baby. Impossible. even if they are staying at the Ronald Macdonald house or a hotel they still need people to watch their other children. also if the parents are sick for some reason they may not be able to visit thier child. anyway - any number of reasons why it may be painfully impossible for them to chill out in a rocking chair all day while they hold trier baby.<br><br>
that said - know your choices, know what their policy is about babies crying it out and make a wise choice about the health care you purchase. (there are two medically excellent hospitals in town. the choice of which one to use is easy.) if at all possible make sure your baby has someone (if not you a family member or friend) with them. also make your policy on crying babies clearly known. as in "if I find out he has been left to cry without comfort . . . "
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>seattlenatural</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/7921621"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I'd do whatever it took to get myself, a grandparent, or family friend in there, even if I was sick and still admitted.</div>
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Easy to say, harder to do. I hope you never have to find out. Please consider being a bit more gentle and charitable with those of us who HAVE had to deal with needing to make some very tough choices, with no outside help.
 
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