ultrasound shows I am 2 weeks behind where I thought I was...

antfarmmom · Nov 30, 2010

On October 5th I had my cycle, normal. On October 29th I got a faintly positive pregnancy test, and then got others over the course of several days, but they never got any brighter. On the 30th I started spotting and spotted for 4 days. 
On the 10th I spotted brown and then on the 12th I tested again and got the brightest positive I have seen. 
Okay on the 16th I went in to see the midwife at the docs office and she did a hcg and progesterone test and an ultrasound. She only saw the yolk sac and my uterus wasn't very enlarged at that time. She had me come in and do another hcg about 40 hours later and although it did not double, it did increase to almost double. She said the dates were off and that I was not 6 weeks pregnant as I thought I was. 
I went in yesterday and she did a repeat ultrasound and we saw the baby and a yolk sac and also the heartbeat. My uterua had grown larger as well. The ultrasound said I was 5 weeks 6 days pregnant and they gave me a new duedate of July 26th instead of July 13th. 
The baby's heartbeat was 88bpm. 
She is thinking that I got pregnant on the 2nd of November, but I was already getting positives at that point, light positives. I even went on the 3rd of Nov to the pregnancy center and got a test there and it was a very, very light positive. 
I was just wondering if anyone could shed some light on this with me. 
Do you think I had/was having a miscarriage when I got the first positives but later concieved again right away and then I got those brighter positives again? 
I am older....41 with ten living children and two known miscarriages one in 92 and one in 05 .
 
Thanks y'all!

erigeron · Nov 30, 2010

"Do you think I had/was having a miscarriage when I got the first positives but later concieved again right away and then I got those brighter positives again?"
 
No, there isn't enough time in there for you to have had a miscarriage, ovulated again, gotten pregnant, and been far enough along to show on a test. This process would take at least 3-4 weeks.
 
It sounds like you ovulated and got pregnant around the middle of October.
 
A positive test is a positive test, light or dark or in between, so I wouldn't worry about the "strength" of the test if I were you. It could be anything from your hormone levels to how much water you drank before taking the test to a vagarity with that individual test stick.
 
I'm not going to comment on the ultrasound stuff since I do not know a lot about how they are read, but I do know about the menstrual cycle and getting pregnant, and this is what jumped out at me.

no5no5 · Nov 30, 2010

I agree; I don't think the dates add up to a chemical followed by another pregnancy.
 
I do know a bit about early ultrasounds, and though I absolutely hate to say it, it doesn't sound great. Even if that early BFP on October 29th was a very early positive, say, 8 DPO, you should have been 7 weeks 4 days on Monday, and you should have seen a bigger embryo and a much faster heartbeat. Usually seeing an embryo that far behind either means that your dates are off (what your doctor is assuming, but that doesn't seem possible in this case) or that things aren't growing right.
 
I guess it's also possible that you had several false positives early on, but they're pretty rare. It's also possible that there was a problem with the ultrasound itself, but again, that's not too common these days.
 
All that said, I think the only thing you can do is hang in there and have another ultrasound in a few weeks and see what's happened. Good luck. <img alt="hug.gif" src="http://files.mothering.com/images/smilies/hug.gif">

antfarmmom · Nov 30, 2010

I did read the saveon.com pregnancy tests instruction page and it said that if you read the results at the five minute mark then it is what it says...I did wait til 10 minutes and read the tests. I thought that was how long I was supposed to wait (the longest time limit before considering if it was pos or neg). I emailed them yesterday and asked. They again pointed me to the instruction page.
 
I do know that we have seen growth though.
First ultrasound showed a yolk sac and the second one a beating heart and embryo. My uterus is also bigger.

no5no5 · Nov 30, 2010

If you read the test at 10 minutes and the line was pink (or blue) and not gray, it was definitely a positive. There are a few things that can cause a positive other than pregnancy, but, as I said, they are rare. 
 
It's great that you've seen growth, and I do think that there is room for hope. It just seems like your doctor has her head in the sand at this point, and you deserve some honest information. Is she planning on doing another ultrasound, or is she just going to go with July 26 and be done with it? Have you told her about your early BFPs?

antfarmmom · Nov 30, 2010

Yes, I told her and she said, "Oh that is odd that you were getting postives when that is the same day I think you concieved..."
She is having me come back in on January 3rd. Nothing but the regular check up is scheduled. So, I don't know what to think. I don't know if I should call in and ask for another ultrasound to see if the baby is progressing normally or not in a few weeks. This has been mind blowing.
 
The date that I got the positive brighter than the control line goes exactly well with the date that would have been about right after implantation time with this dating. It is odd. That was the only bright positive I got all the other ones were very light. I stopped testing after that.
 
I am having morning sickness and tiredness but I have been having that for about two weeks already.
 
I am trying to keep up the hope....

erigeron · Nov 30, 2010

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Originally Posted by antfarmmom <a href="/community/forum/thread/1282544/ultrasound-shows-i-am-2-weeks-behind-where-i-thought-i-was#post_16082548"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a>
 
"Oh that is odd that you were getting postives when that is the same day I think you concieved..."
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She sounds like a nit. Honestly, if I were you I'd get a second opinion. It doesn't sound like she's really either listening to you or addressing your concerns.

onetwoten · Dec 1, 2010

the only thing I can think of is that the first tests you were taking were acting as OPK's and picking up the spike there. It would make sense timing wise-- you would have ovulated late, around day 21 or 22 probably... and then the dark spotting could have been early implantation- 5dpo or so... follow by the actual postivie tests at about 18dpo. It makes sense why the hcg wouldn't have doubled, because I know at some point it does slow down-- though I dont know exactly when that is. The numbers themselves would tell us more.
 
But of course, this is all based on those initial tests as picking up the ovulation surge, not pregnancy. Those dates would put your measurements about a week behind i think as well.

babygrey · Dec 1, 2010

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by jeninejessica <a href="/community/forum/thread/1282544/ultrasound-shows-i-am-2-weeks-behind-where-i-thought-i-was#post_16084042"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a> the only thing I can think of is that the first tests you were taking were acting as OPK's and picking up the spike there. It would make sense timing wise-- you would have ovulated late, around day 21 or 22 probably... and then the dark spotting could have been early implantation- 5dpo or so... follow by the actual postivie tests at about 18dpo. It makes sense why the hcg wouldn't have doubled, because I know at some point it does slow down-- though I dont know exactly when that is. The numbers themselves would tell us more.
 
But of course, this is all based on those initial tests as picking up the ovulation surge, not pregnancy. Those dates would put your measurements about a week behind i think as well.
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I was sort of thinking along the same lines.... you got them from saveon, correct? is it possible that the tests you were using around the 29th were actually opks? (like, did saveon send you the wrong thing or is there any way you could have mixed up the two? Please don't be offended in my asking- it is totally something I could see myself doing). Then you implanted and the test @ the center was a true faint positive.
 
The one other 'out there' thought I had was that sometimes women, esp around 40ish can have low levels up hcg present when not pg. If those tests were super-sensitive, it is possible they were picking up that level. (ie- the 6day FRER has a warning that it can cause false positives in some women after 40)
 
I agree it would be really helpful to know your actual beta numbers- you could compare them with betabase and help pinpoint more accurately.
 
One other thought- I was told repeatedly that early US has a margin of error up to 5days (I had two early USs that conflicted w/ each other). So, if it was 5 days off at both USs, you've got a ten day flex window in there. Plus, 5wk6days is on the way early side to see a HB, so it makes me suspect you are actually a bit further along. 
 
Good luck. with growth and a HB at "6" weeks, I would certainly hold lots of hope, but it does sound like your midwife could me more supportive with getting to the bottom of things, for your comfort, if nothing else.

antfarmmom · Dec 1, 2010

I did only order the pregnancy tests from saveon and didn't have ovulation ones. I also had a faint positive back in July about a day before I started my period so that over 40 with hpt in your body makes sense too.
 
Okay, my betas on the 16th in late afternoon were 3752 and then on Thursday morning the 18th, they were 4970. So not quite doubled but also not quite 48 hours! She told me then that my dates were off and that is why we were doing the second ultrasound.
 
Well, all I know is I am sick and so tired and my boobs are still sore and I saw a heartbeat, and all of this is making me feel much better about things.

JFTB1177 · Dec 1, 2010

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by antfarmmom <a href="/community/forum/thread/1282544/ultrasound-shows-i-am-2-weeks-behind-where-i-thought-i-was#post_16082548"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border-bottom:0px solid;border-left:0px solid;border-top:0px solid;border-right:0px solid;"></a> I don't know if I should call in and ask for another ultrasound to see if the baby is progressing normally or not in a few weeks. This has been mind blowing.
 
 
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I would definitely get a followup u/s to see what is going on. I have had 4 miscarriages- 2 of those had awesome HCG levels in the beginning. One of those (my 2nd loss) also had an awesome early hb (in the 140s) but I started getting very light brown spotting on and off, went to doc and had an u/s around 9 weeks and found out the baby had passed a week earlier. With my 4th loss, I always measured a week or two behind, even though there was an embryo and a hb. The hb however was very low- in the 80s, and then the next u/s it went down to the 60s. Eventually the baby passed around 9/10 weeks. I don't mean to be a Debbie downer because believe me, I know how much you want to hope when this crap happens, I just want you to be prepared for the worst too. (((hugs))) Of course, you could have also have some date mixups and just had a very very early u/s and happened to see the embryo when the heart just started beating, that does happen. I'll be crossing my fingers for you that it's a sticky bean!

no5no5 · Dec 1, 2010

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<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by antfarmmom <a href="/community/forum/thread/1282544/ultrasound-shows-i-am-2-weeks-behind-where-i-thought-i-was#post_16084187"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a> 
Okay, my betas on the 16th in late afternoon were 3752 and then on Thursday morning the 18th, they were 4970. So not quite doubled but also not quite 48 hours! She told me then that my dates were off and that is why we were doing the second ultrasound.
 
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All due respect, but that's not almost double IMO. Double would be more than 7000. I don't know the exact times you took your betas, but going with 4 pm on the 16th and 10 am on the 18th, that puts your doubling time at 103.55 hours. And betas in the thousands are really high for being only just 4 weeks. To top it off, if you had been only 4 weeks pregnant at the time of your first ultrasound, you really should not have seen a yolk sac, maybe just a gestational sac, if anything. I can't imagine why your doc looked at that data and gave you the information she did. I agree with erigeron, and if you can get a second opinion or switch to another provider I would do so. Big <img alt="hug.gif" src="http://files.mothering.com/images/smilies/hug.gif">. I'm glad you're still feeling positive, but gosh it'd be nice if you had a provider you could trust.

onetwoten · Dec 1, 2010

Just some notes....
 
 
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<table border="1" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" style="background-color:#EFEFEF;margin-left:auto;margin-right:auto;"><tbody><tr><td style="width:250px;">Week from the Last Menstrual Period</td>
<td style="width:200px;">Amount of HCG in mIU/ml</td>
</tr><tr valign="top"><td>3</td>
<td>5 -50</td>
</tr><tr><td>4</td>
<td>3 - 426</td>
</tr><tr valign="top"><td>5</td>
<td>19 - 7,340</td>
</tr><tr><td>6</td>
<td>1,080 - 56,500</td>
</tr><tr><td>7 - 8</td>
<td>7,650 - 229,000</td>
</tr><tr><td>9 - 12</td>
<td>25,700 - 288,000</td>
</tr><tr><td>13 - 16</td>
<td>13,300 - 254,000</td>
</tr><tr><td>17 - 24</td>
<td>4,060 - 165,400</td>
</tr><tr><td>25 - 40</td>
<td>3,640 - 117,000</td>
</tr></tbody></table> 
Beta hCG levels should double approximately every 2 days for the first four weeks of pregnancy [2]. As pregnancy progresses the doubling time increases. By 6 to 7 weeks gestation beta hCG levels may take as long as 3 1/2 days to double [3,4].
 
 
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 Those numbers completely add up if you're about 5-6 weeks as I think you probably are, based on your above information. It gives you a doubling time of about 3-3.5 days as well.
 
One of the ladies i nmy usual thread had an ultrasound yesterday with a baby measuring 6 weeks and a sac measuring 5w1day, with her dates telling her shes 5w3 days-- and they saw a heartbeat. So even though it's not likely, it's not impossible. Her baby's hb was 127, but was told normal for 5 weeks was 80-85 and then increasing a few beats per minute. So technically-- everything you have so far is normal, if you go by that later date.
 
That said-- I would find a new practioner, because this one doesn't seem to care about your confusion, and it's too early for them not to care.
 
 
***Edit to clarify-- I think you were probably 5 weeks ish on the 16th, and 7 weeks ish yesterday-- give or take a few. It still makes the number mostly add up, just with the hb being a bit slow, which i dont think is that unusual this early on.

no5no5 · Dec 1, 2010

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by jeninejessica <a href="/community/forum/thread/1282544/ultrasound-shows-i-am-2-weeks-behind-where-i-thought-i-was#post_16085056"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a> ***Edit to clarify-- I think you were probably 5 weeks ish on the 16th, and 7 weeks ish yesterday-- give or take a few. It still makes the number mostly add up, just with the hb being a bit slow, which i dont think is that unusual this early on.
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 I'm sorry, but a heart rate of 88 would be slow for 6 weeks, and it should be at least 120 by 7 weeks. A slow heart rate does not necessarily mean miscarriage, but it definitely is not meaningless. 
 
<a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15994999" target="_blank">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15994999</a>

greenmama66 · Dec 2, 2010

Do you know when you ovulated? For example first day of my last cycle was October 5th. I ovulated on cycle day 15 (which was October 19th) and got pregnant. On the 30th I took a pregnancy test and it came out +. Took one the next day and it was also +. Nausea had already set in a few days before period was due and I am now at 8 weeks and one day and that puts me at a July 12th EDD.
 
So like you I have the same LMP date of the 5th but I ovulated midcycle. You could have ovulated much later which would account for faint + and the embryo showing an earlier date.
 
I also suggest changing to someone who understands your concerns and won't brush you off. I've also read stories online of women who had no fetal pole or heartbeat at a certain week and docs suggesting D&C and they went back a few weeks later and everything was fine.
 
(((hugs))) hang in there!!

L&K'smommie · Dec 2, 2010

Big hugs mama!
 
I wanted to add that with my first pregnancy I was with a CNM and when I went in for my first u/s I was only 6 weeks(small sac, lower hb) instead of 8...but my MW wouldn't use the 6w u/s to date my pregnancy as she said at that early of a gestation it's not typically accurate. I had another u/s at 8 w and from that u/s they dated my pregnancy. So I wonder if another u/s in about 2 weeks would show a different date...

erigeron · Dec 2, 2010

I don't think she could have ovulated much later than 2 wks after her period started, if she had her period starting the 5th and got a positive test on the 29th. Her cycle day 14 would be the 19th, so she could have ovulated maybe a day or two after that, but not way after it. Either way, not enough of a difference to really be explaining the confusion.

greenmama66 · Dec 2, 2010

<div class="quote-container">Quote:
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by erigeron <a href="/community/forum/thread/1282544/ultrasound-shows-i-am-2-weeks-behind-where-i-thought-i-was#post_16087588"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a> I don't think she could have ovulated much later than 2 wks after her period started, if she had her period starting the 5th and got a positive test on the 29th. Her cycle day 14 would be the 19th, so she could have ovulated maybe a day or two after that, but not way after it. Either way, not enough of a difference to really be explaining the confusion.
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 She could have ovulated on cycle day 22 or 23- not impossible- I O'ed on days 22-23 during the summetime. My LMP was October 5th and the 19th of October was cycle day 15- the day I ovulated. Rare to get a pregnancy test a week after ovulation but not impossible. I also don't think she O'ed much later and with early ultrasound dating can be off. One reason why I don't go 
for ultrasound unless I feel it's absolutely necessary. I knew I was pregnant (I always know) and just for fun I took a pregnancy test 8 DPO and 10 DPO and both were negative. I think the 29th may have been 10DPO. I got my BFP on the day after Halloween (that monday morning) and I'm just saying this because I have the same cycle date as the OP.Just checked my chart and I got the BFP Nov. 1st. Prior to that it was negative and I am 100% sure of my ovulation date. Had I gotten pregnant on day 23 in my cycle and dated the pregnancy from LMP it would put me 9 days 
behind on an ultrasound. So unless the OP knows the date she ovulated/date of conception there are variables.

erigeron · Dec 3, 2010

I know that ovulating before or after day 14 is far from unusual, but I'm not sure it could have been very far off in this scenario. I am not sure which brand of pregnancy tests she used or how soon they might show, but I'm pretty sure even the most sensitive ones won't give you a result until 8-9 DPO? If she got a positive on the 29th then the latest she really could have O'd would be the 20th or 21st. Not to split hairs but I really don't think that wiggle room in her O date is accounting for the problem here, by a long shot.
 
I'm kind of skeptical of this "dating" ultrasound stuff personally, but that is because I did chart and know when I O'd within a day or so, and really, having my due date be one day more or less in either direction seems negligible to me. All the babies in my family seem to come a little early, anyway. If I came from a long line of women who went to 42+ weeks, I might go for the dating ultrasound to try to push the date back a smidge.

MaerynPearl · Dec 5, 2010

I, personally, do not trust ultrasound results from people whose specialty is NOT ultrasound. Its just way too easy to screw it all up.

ultrasound shows I am 2 weeks behind where I thought I was...

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