This has kind of been bugging me for awhile. Why are some former breastfeeders unsupportive? There is a woman I work with who breastfed her 3 girls. Before I gave birth she was talking about all of the food that you have to give up when you breastfeed (she gave up certain foods because they bothered her babies). When DS was 6 weeks old, I mentioned to her that I NIP for the first time. It was a big deal to me at the time so I thought she might say congratuations. I know I would want to be very supportive of someone NIP. She says to me "You made sure to cover up didn't you." I told her yes. Then she goes on "I just hate those 'organic' or hippie' women that just let everything hang out. I mean what am I supposed to tell my girls when they see this." My thought was you tell them that these women are feeding their babies because those are what boobs are for. Have you guys run into women that are former BFers that are unsupportive? I just don't understand this.
Unsupportive former BFers
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My MIL nursed four of her five kids (my dh wouln't latch on so he was ff) and is really supportive of everything nursing related, except NIP. She doesn't care if you're nursing in front of family, but once you're with non-family members, it's a big no-no. We went to a baby shower for my SIL yesterday and I nursed dd a couple (okay several, it was a no nap day) times and every single time, MIL would give me this horrible look. Then theres the time I nursed in Church. I'm not Catholic, but I know Jesus was breastfed and most likely in public, but you'd have thought I was the one driving the nails into Jesus by the look on her face. I don't care what she thinks and tend to nurse her more in public if MIL is with us, just to piss her off (I don't really like the woman
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I haven't encountered them IRL, but I have online.
I don't get how some women who BFed can actually be so rabidly anti-NIP. I wonder if they locked themselves up in the house and never left until their kids were well established on solids.
Of course the women I've met online who BFed and are rabidly anti-NIP were not exclusive BFers and didn't nurse past 9 months or so ...
I don't get how some women who BFed can actually be so rabidly anti-NIP. I wonder if they locked themselves up in the house and never left until their kids were well established on solids.
Of course the women I've met online who BFed and are rabidly anti-NIP were not exclusive BFers and didn't nurse past 9 months or so ...
My mom BF'd both me and my brother, but NEVER in public. She would use a blanket over us around female family, and would go into a different room AND use a blanket if male family were present. She only left the house for groceries, directly after feeding us. Neither of us would take a bottle. She weaned my brother at 15 months (by the advice of his ped for having loose stools) and I self weaned (I think it was a strike the way she describes it) at 11 months. But... this was in the 1970's when NO ONE in her area BF'd. She was the odd ball. I don't think people would have been supportive of NIP in her area at that time, and she is super modest so I don't think she would have NIP'd anyway.
These women nursed their babies at a time and place when bf AT ALL was almost unheard of; they overcame tremendous obstacles to bf; they should be commended, not censured. The problem is, times and attitudes have changed, but they haven't. See my thread on the history of NIP for more information.
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yes, I've unfortunately ran into a few (more online). But in my circle (family) NIP is not an issue. No one bats an eye at it (how it should be). My mom was nursing one of her kids at the mall (she forgets which one) and this guy stopped and said "Ma'am, that's just beautiful."
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It was the only NIP comment she ever got, and so far as I remember (being the oldest) she was neither specifically discreet or indiscreet, she just nursed. (She's small chested, so it was fairly easy not to flash everyone). I'm hoping for good NIP experiences (although she only nursed to a year with each, and I plan on going longer and possibly having more kids, so there's more room for comments).
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Recently, someone in my local moms group sent out an email about the 20/20 episode about breastfeeding (a reminder, then asking if anyone taped it.) Tons of moms responded, thanking her for reminding them, that they really enjoyed seeing it from "that" angle. I missed the 20/20 episode, but after like the 5th email of "I'm a formula feeding mom, those commercials make me feel guilty, it's SO nice to see my side on tv for a change" I just had to say something. I emailed the ladies, saying that while I was sorry they were upset over the commercials, that they can't compare to nursing your child in public and having someone come up to you and say that you're nasty. You can turn the tv off. Well, one woman emailed me back, saying she'd bf her two kids to 18 and 20 months, and that she NEVER nip (of course, she pumped or knew her kids schedule enough to plan around it) and that nip was the same as showing your VAGINA in public! Now, njeb, this woman is not a pioneer bfer, she's in her 30's, so it's not like she's had to overcome too much more adversity than me (her oldest is 5.)
I wonder if it's not that when they nursed they were made to feel that they had to hide and that it was shameful- and now that it's not that way anymore they feel resentful and jealous about a mom who could do something like nurse at the mall... and the fact is- for lots of people it _still is that way- it all depends who is around you! (and what you make of it all)
my mom tells me about the time when maxis came in plain brown wrapper boxes. No marking what- so- ever.... but in one corner there was a tiny "K" or "M" for Kotex or Modess. Imagine going from that- to the ads on TV now that show a a dancing maxi pad as if the invisible woman was wearing it!
my mom tells me about the time when maxis came in plain brown wrapper boxes. No marking what- so- ever.... but in one corner there was a tiny "K" or "M" for Kotex or Modess. Imagine going from that- to the ads on TV now that show a a dancing maxi pad as if the invisible woman was wearing it!
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Exactly. It's hard for some people to move past their own experience and be happy that things are getting better for nursing moms now. If only they had had MDC back then.
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Originally Posted by Sarah I wonder if it's not that when they nursed they were made to feel that they had to hide and that it was shameful- and now that it's not that way anymore they feel resentful and jealous about a mom who could do something like nurse at the mall... and the fact is- for lots of people it _still is that way- it all depends who is around you! (and what you make of it all) |
My stepMIL bf all five of her kids, the shortest duration was 2 months and the longest 2 years, so you'd think she'd be supportive of bfing, but she's not. She's tolerant, but that's about it. She became much less a fan once her son's wife CHOSE to FF, but of course stepSIL HAD to FF. whatever.
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How sad that that was the first thing out of her mouth. Women should be more supportive of one another.
| She says to me "You made sure to cover up didn't you." |
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Oh, ok. When I first read the thread, I thought it referred to older women who had nursed way back when. But I can see now that a former breastfeeder could also refer to someone who was nursing more recently.
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Didn't think of that.
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Originally Posted by firstkid4me Recently, someone in my local moms group sent out an email about the 20/20 episode about breastfeeding (a reminder, then asking if anyone taped it.) Tons of moms responded, thanking her for reminding them, that they really enjoyed seeing it from "that" angle. I missed the 20/20 episode, but after like the 5th email of "I'm a formula feeding mom, those commercials make me feel guilty, it's SO nice to see my side on tv for a change" I just had to say something. I emailed the ladies, saying that while I was sorry they were upset over the commercials, that they can't compare to nursing your child in public and having someone come up to you and say that you're nasty. You can turn the tv off. Well, one woman emailed me back, saying she'd bf her two kids to 18 and 20 months, and that she NEVER nip (of course, she pumped or knew her kids schedule enough to plan around it) and that nip was the same as showing your VAGINA in public! Now, njeb, this woman is not a pioneer bfer, she's in her 30's, so it's not like she's had to overcome too much more adversity than me (her oldest is 5.) |
Didn't think of that.
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Excellent post!
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You made the same point I was trying to make, but you did it much better.
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Originally Posted by Sarah I wonder if it's not that when they nursed they were made to feel that they had to hide and that it was shameful- and now that it's not that way anymore they feel resentful and jealous about a mom who could do something like nurse at the mall... and the fact is- for lots of people it _still is that way- it all depends who is around you! (and what you make of it all) my mom tells me about the time when maxis came in plain brown wrapper boxes. No marking what- so- ever.... but in one corner there was a tiny "K" or "M" for Kotex or Modess. Imagine going from that- to the ads on TV now that show a a dancing maxi pad as if the invisible woman was wearing it! |
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Boy, I wish they had!!! I would have been a much better mother.
Originally Posted by Momtwice Exactly. It's hard for some people to move past their own experience and be happy that things are getting better for nursing moms now. If only they had had MDC back then.
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This isn't really the same thing, but similar... My mom breastfed my sister and I for a little over a year each, but she doesn't really agree with extended breastfeeding. I'm not sure what age she thinks is the "cut-off", but when I was talking about older kids nursing, she said that it's just for the mother when you nurse that long.
Also, my auny has a baby about 8 months older than dd. I was so happy that she was still nursing beyond a year and I encouraged her that it's okay to keep nursing, but she cut her daughter off cold turkey when she was sick at about 16 months or so. She was thrill and I think she wanted me to be happy for her. She said her daughter couldn't nurse because she was sick, so she just stopped letting her nurse after that.
Also, my auny has a baby about 8 months older than dd. I was so happy that she was still nursing beyond a year and I encouraged her that it's okay to keep nursing, but she cut her daughter off cold turkey when she was sick at about 16 months or so. She was thrill and I think she wanted me to be happy for her. She said her daughter couldn't nurse because she was sick, so she just stopped letting her nurse after that.
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That's so ironic ... other than family members and until recently (when friends started having babies) the *only* place I could ever recall seeing babies NIP was the women at my (Catholic) church growing up. Most of the moms there NIP'd during mass and at church events and things, it was sort of what we did. I had always assumed that Catholics were a bit more "open" to bf than some other religions. (I hope this comment doesn't put me in trouble with the UA, if it would, just let me know and I'll delete it).
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Yes, there are opponents of bf/bfip who supposedly bf'd themselves, who are still in the current generation. I do think that a lot of it does have to do with what they were expected/pressured into doing by their near-peers and family members in terms of how to bf and whether to bfip. I also think that so many of the mainstream parenting books have abysmal bf "information" in them that they assume it's normal for their supplies to dip, baby to develop bottle preference, etc. and "wean around a year or sooner" .... when in reality they've been (intentionally or not) "coached" into that happening by the poor advice and support they're given. If they're told it's natural and it felt natural to them, then who are we to question it and say that it could have been much different, if they'd had good information/support, KWIM?
In other words, many of these moms either stayed in seclusion as long as they were bf, and bf'd in the back bedroom at family events --- OR, they pumped or gave formula bottles and potentially compromised their supply for the times they had to be out in public --- OR, they didn't bf for very long (or a combo of the previous). I do also think that for some, there is a martyr complex going on. "I was a good mom and bf'd my children, even though it meant that for 13 months I was *at home all the time*, Oh, the sacrifices I made, and if you don't do it my way, then you're not being as good a mom as I was!"
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I think it has a bit to do with the "good girl" socialization. "Yes, I bf'd, but I was a 'good girl' and didn't offend those around me by taking my sexual bfing breasts out in public and horrifying people." (Corollary being - 'bad girls' flaunt it) ....
It's really sad. Typically when I read the, "I bf'd but I never bf'd in public" argument, I assume that the mom didn't bf for long, supplemented early, and/or was a masochist about bfing. It's unfortunate that there are women out there who did bf, for whatever period, but who are so unsupportive of other women who bf (since those women's approaches/experiences differ from their own).
| Then theres the time I nursed in Church. I'm not Catholic, but I know Jesus was breastfed and most likely in public, but you'd have thought I was the one driving the nails into Jesus by the look on her face. |
Yes, there are opponents of bf/bfip who supposedly bf'd themselves, who are still in the current generation. I do think that a lot of it does have to do with what they were expected/pressured into doing by their near-peers and family members in terms of how to bf and whether to bfip. I also think that so many of the mainstream parenting books have abysmal bf "information" in them that they assume it's normal for their supplies to dip, baby to develop bottle preference, etc. and "wean around a year or sooner" .... when in reality they've been (intentionally or not) "coached" into that happening by the poor advice and support they're given. If they're told it's natural and it felt natural to them, then who are we to question it and say that it could have been much different, if they'd had good information/support, KWIM?
In other words, many of these moms either stayed in seclusion as long as they were bf, and bf'd in the back bedroom at family events --- OR, they pumped or gave formula bottles and potentially compromised their supply for the times they had to be out in public --- OR, they didn't bf for very long (or a combo of the previous). I do also think that for some, there is a martyr complex going on. "I was a good mom and bf'd my children, even though it meant that for 13 months I was *at home all the time*, Oh, the sacrifices I made, and if you don't do it my way, then you're not being as good a mom as I was!"
I think it has a bit to do with the "good girl" socialization. "Yes, I bf'd, but I was a 'good girl' and didn't offend those around me by taking my sexual bfing breasts out in public and horrifying people." (Corollary being - 'bad girls' flaunt it) ....
It's really sad. Typically when I read the, "I bf'd but I never bf'd in public" argument, I assume that the mom didn't bf for long, supplemented early, and/or was a masochist about bfing. It's unfortunate that there are women out there who did bf, for whatever period, but who are so unsupportive of other women who bf (since those women's approaches/experiences differ from their own).
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It's probably on page 4 or 5 by now. I'll go bump it up.
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Edited to add: Actually, I found it on page 3! Read the OP; in it, I talk about where the notion of "discreet nursing" comes from and how it originally was a liberating, revolutionary idea. IMO, it is an idea whose time has gone.
Originally Posted by laurdsed njeb, where's this thread? I'd really like to read it. Laurel |
Edited to add: Actually, I found it on page 3! Read the OP; in it, I talk about where the notion of "discreet nursing" comes from and how it originally was a liberating, revolutionary idea. IMO, it is an idea whose time has gone.
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