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<p><a href="http://www.businessweek.com/lifestyle/content/healthday/647542.html?campaign_id=rss_topStories" target="_blank">http://www.businessweek.com/lifestyle/content/healthday/647542.html?campaign_id=rss_topStories</a></p>
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<p>Not sure I fully get it, does this include all sidecar-style cribs?</p>
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<p>If so: Wow, I was unaware how many recalls and deaths there'd been. To me stricter safety controls or some sort of testing certification system  and standards would make more sense than an outright ban. The ban even says you can't resell them.</p>
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<p>I know lots of families that would not cosleep if the baby were in the bed with them, but do it with a cosleeper. So it seems like loads and loads of families will now be doing the separate crib thing instead of cosleeping. How sad.</p>
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<p>I mean, obviously something had to be done, but a total and far-reaching outright ban? Wow, just wow.</p>
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As I understand it, if the dropping side is off and the crib is approved to be used with three sides (ie, convertible) then there is no safety risk. Ours is not marketed to be used 3 sided but dh reinforced the frame so we feel completely comfortable using it as a sidecar.<br><br>
Each family will have to decide what is best for them as I don't see how the government can police what's already inside our homes. We have lots of childrens furniture that's been passed down through the generations that some people wouldn't feel comfortable using anymore but we feel fine about. However, I personally will never use a drop side crib even if the fourth side is fixed... Can't get the entrapment pics out of my head!
 

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<p>We live in Canada, where a ban on these cribs has been around for a while. We still side car with a crib that is convertible into a toddler day bed. It is meant to have a side taken off and is still completely stable and safe.</p>
 

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<p>I'm in Canada so I don't for sure know, but at least up here it was the fact that the rail dropped down, and there were fixer kits that people could get that would permanently secure all the sides.  It was the hardware that was the problem, not the missing side.  </p>
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<p><a href="http://www.babble.com/CS/blogs/strollerderby/archive/2009/03/25/manufacturers-move-to-ban-drop-side-cribs.aspx" target="_blank">http://www.babble.com/CS/blogs/strollerderby/archive/2009/03/25/manufacturers-move-to-ban-drop-side-cribs.aspx</a></p>
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<p>Here's a picture of a drop side crib, one of the sides "drops" down so that you can access the baby, not a missing side.</p>
 

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<p>I just saw this. It made me wonder ho the government can still claim that crib sleeping is safer than co-sleeping. I guess they could say it is once they work out all the kinks. In the meantime, just like with prescription drugs, they expect to lose a few lives before it all works perfectly. I guess that's acceptable to the bureaucrats as long as it's not their babies dying.</p>
 

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<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>MarineWife</strong> <a href="/community/forum/thread/1285949/us-government-bans-drop-side-cribs#post_16126541"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border-bottom:0px solid;border-left:0px solid;border-top:0px solid;border-right:0px solid;"></a><br><br><p>I just saw this. It made me wonder ho the government can still claim that crib sleeping is safer than co-sleeping. I guess they could say it is once they work out all the kinks. In the meantime, just like with prescription drugs, they expect to lose a few lives before it all works perfectly. I guess that's acceptable to the bureaucrats as long as it's not their babies dying.</p>
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<br><br><p> Actually according to the CPSC</p>
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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
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<div> A review of incident data from January 1990 to December 1997 linked adult beds to at least 515 baby deaths. Analysis of the deaths revealed four major hazard patterns:<br><br><ul><li>Suffocation associated with the co-sleeping of adult and baby.</li>
<li>Suffocation where an infant becomes entrapped or wedged between the mattress and another object.</li>
<li>Suffocation due to airway obstruction when the baby is face down on a waterbed mattress.</li>
<li>Strangulation in rails or openings on beds that allow a baby's body to pass through while entrapping the head.</li>
</ul>
CPSC's study is the first to quantify the number of fatalities resulting from the practice of co-sleeping with babies. Of the 515 deaths, 121 were reported to be due to a parent, caregiver or sibling rolling on top of or against the baby while sleeping. More than three-quarters of these deaths occurred to infants younger than 3 months. The other 394 deaths resulted from suffocation or from strangulation caused by entrapment of the child's head in various structures of the bed. Entrapments occurred between the mattress and the wall, bed frame, headboard, footboard, bed railings or adjacent furniture.</div>
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<p> 515 deaths over the course of 7 years, vs 32 over the course of a decade due to the drop side cribs.  Yes, co sleeping is more dangerous than a drop side crib. </p>
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<p>Now, another part of the CPSC website shows this info</p>
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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
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<div> 
<p style="text-align:left;"><span style="font-family:'Times New Roman';">deaths in baby cribs, Directorate for Epidemiology staff conducted an analysis of fatal</span></p>
<p style="text-align:left;"><span style="font-family:'Times New Roman';">crib-related incidents that occurred between January 1, 1997, and July 15, 2002.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:'Times New Roman';">Highlights of this analysis are as follows:</span></p>
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<p style="text-align:left;"><span style="font-family:'Times New Roman';">During this time period, a total of 156 crib-related deaths were reported to CPSC.</span></p>
<p style="text-align:left;"><span style="font-family:'Times New Roman';">About 80 percent of the victims were younger than one year, and about 60 percent of</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:'Times New Roman';">the victims were</span></p>
<p style="text-align:left;"><span style="font-family:'Times New Roman';">male. Most deaths resulted from positional asphyxia or suffocation,</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:'Times New Roman';">and occurred in the victim’s home</span></p>
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<p>Now, that time frame is only 5 years, vs the 7 or 10 years of the other two.  But, even if we multiply that 156 deaths due to cribs by 2 to carry it out to 10 years, thats still 312 deaths due to cribs.  That is less than 515 deaths in an adult bed.</p>
 

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<p>Yes, but do those stats for co-sleeping include only deliberate, conscious responsible co-sleeping or do they also include incidents where adults fall asleep by accident on the couch, for example, and/or adults under the influence of intoxicants? I have read that they make no distinction between the circumstances of the supposed co-sleeping.</p>
 

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<p><br><br>
 </p>
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>MarineWife</strong> <a href="/community/forum/thread/1285949/us-government-bans-drop-side-cribs#post_16126675"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border-bottom:0px solid;border-left:0px solid;border-top:0px solid;border-right:0px solid;"></a><br><br><p>Yes, but do those stats for co-sleeping include only deliberate, conscious responsible co-sleeping or do they also include incidents where adults fall asleep by accident on the couch, for example, and/or adults under the influence of intoxicants? I have read that they make no distinction between the circumstances of the supposed co-sleeping.</p>
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<p>They are specifically for sleeping in an adult bed</p>
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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
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<div> A review of incident data from January 1990 to December 1997 <strong>linked adult beds</strong> to at least 515 baby deaths</div>
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<p>I didn't see that it mentioned intoxicants, which yes, we know can contribute to an adult rolling over on a child. </p>
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<p>However,</p>
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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
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<div> 121 were reported to be due to a parent, caregiver or sibling rolling on top of or against the baby while sleeping........The other 394 deaths resulted from suffocation or from strangulation caused by entrapment of the child's head in various structures of the bed</div>
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<p>394 due to the entrapment of the child is still more than than 312.  Even if you remove ALL instances of a larger person (parent or sibling) rolling over onto the child, having an infant sleep in an adult bed still causes more deaths than having an infant sleep in a crib. </p>
 

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<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>MarineWife</strong> <a href="/community/forum/thread/1285949/us-government-bans-drop-side-cribs#post_16126675"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a><br><br><p>Yes, but do those stats for co-sleeping include only deliberate, conscious responsible co-sleeping or do they also include incidents where adults fall asleep by accident on the couch, for example, and/or adults under the influence of intoxicants? I have read that they make no distinction between the circumstances of the supposed co-sleeping.</p>
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<p>I don't think so.  Just because they are linked to adult beds doesn't mean it was deliberate cosleeping.  Were the adults intoxicated?  Was everyone involved aware there was a baby in the bed?  Were there even adults present (or was the child left unattended on an adult bed)?  Was the bed obviously unsafe (yes to some because waterbeds are mentioned)?</p>
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<p>I think its a bit of a 'fail' for society.  Anyone can find pretty quickly how to safely use a crib.  All cribs are built with the intention of being safe and warnings are everywhere on how to make them safer.  Cosleeping is many times something that someone just does.  It can be a decision someone makes out of desperation for sleep.  Instead of educating future parents on how a cosleeping arrangement can be made safe, they're just told not to do it.  What would be more accurate would be statistics that control for the number of safe or unsafe co-sleepers/crib-sleepers.  If there are 20 times as many people cosleeping unsafely than using a crib unsafely then the numbers are definitely going to be skewed!</p>
 

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<p>I wonder how this will affect parents in wheelchairs - a non-drop side crib just doesn't work when you can't stand to get the baby out. It barely works with a drop side as it is.</p>
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<p>I hope they come back out with the old cribs that had a swinging door type side.</p>
 

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<p>When did they ban the drop side cribs in Canada? I wasn't area of this at all. I did know about the recalls though and was worried about what kind of crib to get my son,not they we really is anyway since we do co-sleep. I did end up getting one from craigslist from a  family who bought it brand new 1 year ago,it does have a drop side. Are they really banned though in Canada? I've never seen anyone on CL complain and warn others about the cribs the way they do when someone tries to sell a baby walker,those have been banned for years now.</p>
 

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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
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<p>Originally Posted by <strong>WifeofAnt</strong> <a href="/community/forum/thread/1285949/us-government-bans-drop-side-cribs#post_16139299"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></p>
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<p>I don't think so.  Just because they are linked to adult beds doesn't mean it was deliberate cosleeping.  Were the adults intoxicated?  Was everyone involved aware there was a baby in the bed?  Were there even adults present (or was the child left unattended on an adult bed)?  Was the bed obviously unsafe (yes to some because waterbeds are mentioned)?</p>
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<p>Cosleeping is many times something that someone just does.  It can be a decision someone makes out of desperation for sleep.  Instead of educating future parents on how a cosleeping arrangement can be made safe, they're just told not to do it.</p>
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<p>All good points and exactly what I was trying to get at. I think the studies about co-sleeping start with the assumption that's it's not safe under any conditions so there's no need to break it down by actual circumstance. I don't know how they can get accurate stats on such things when they can't get an accurate picture of how many families really do co-sleep. I think I read once that at least 50% of families co-sleep at least part of the time but most parents won't admit it openly. I also wonder what the stats would look like if they covered co-sleeping world wide. Most of the world does co-sleep. From what I understand, modern, westernized society is in the minority in the way we expect our babies and children to sleep alone in separate bedrooms.</p>
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<p>It's very important to look at who is funding and who is conducting these studies. If crib manufacturers are funding the studies and the studies are being conducted by government agencies that are supported by crib manufacturers, it's not surprising that cribs would appear safer than co-sleeping. They aren't going to make any money if most parents realize they don't need cribs.<br>
 </p>
 

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<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>happysmileylady</strong> <a href="/community/forum/thread/1285949/us-government-bans-drop-side-cribs#post_16126680"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a>
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<p>394 due to the entrapment of the child is still more than than 312.  Even if you remove ALL instances of a larger person (parent or sibling) rolling over onto the child, having an infant sleep in an adult bed still causes more deaths than having an infant sleep in a crib. </p>
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<br><br><p>Sorry. I missed this post. Absolute numbers don't mean much in comparison. It's percentages and significant difference that matter. For example (just pulling numbers out of the air), if that's 394 out of 1000 vs. 312 out of 500, there's a huge difference. If it's 394 vs. 312 out of 1000 but statistically there's no difference, then they would both be equally safe or unsafe depending on how you look at it.</p>
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<p>There are many other factors that need to go into the analysis. I just realized that your original post was only comparing # of deaths from co-sleeping vs. # of deaths from drop down cribs. Again, absolute #s don't mean anything. Additionally, what are the stats comparing deaths from co-sleeping vs. deaths from all crib use, including SIDs.</p>
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<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>frugalmama</strong> <a href="/community/forum/thread/1285949/us-government-bans-drop-side-cribs#post_16139388"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a><br><br><p>I wonder how this will affect parents in wheelchairs - a non-drop side crib just doesn't work when you can't stand to get the baby out. It barely works with a drop side as it is.</p>
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<p>I hope they come back out with the old cribs that had a swinging door type side.</p>
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<br><br><p>Someone I know is handicapped due to an illness she had as a child, and she had a crib made for her ds, it has a door in it that opens in a way that her ds cannot open it himself.  A dropside crib doesn't drop enough to make it work, she needed a door in the side.</p>
 

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<p><br><br>
 </p>
<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>MarineWife</strong> <a href="/community/forum/thread/1285949/us-government-bans-drop-side-cribs#post_16139541"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border-bottom:0px solid;border-left:0px solid;border-top:0px solid;border-right:0px solid;"></a><br><br><br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>happysmileylady</strong> <a href="/community/forum/thread/1285949/us-government-bans-drop-side-cribs#post_16126680"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border-bottom:0px solid;border-left:0px solid;border-top:0px solid;border-right:0px solid;"></a>
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<p>394 due to the entrapment of the child is still more than than 312.  Even if you remove ALL instances of a larger person (parent or sibling) rolling over onto the child, having an infant sleep in an adult bed still causes more deaths than having an infant sleep in a crib. </p>
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<br><br><p>Sorry. I missed this post. Absolute numbers don't mean much in comparison. It's percentages and significant difference that matter. For example (just pulling numbers out of the air), if that's 394 out of 1000 vs. 312 out of 500, there's a huge difference. If it's 394 vs. 312 out of 1000 but statistically there's no difference, then they would both be equally safe or unsafe depending on how you look at it.</p>
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<p>There are many other factors that need to go into the analysis. I just realized that your original post was only comparing # of deaths from co-sleeping vs. # of deaths from drop down cribs. Again, absolute #s don't mean anything. Additionally, what are the stats comparing deaths from co-sleeping vs. deaths from all crib use, including SIDs.</p>
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<p>Since I read the numbers as being-out of babies that died in the US during this time frame, X died from this cause, Y from that cause-I am guessing that the numbers would become "statistically insignificant."  I would assume that we would be talking 394 deaths out of all the babies sleeping in adult beds vs 312 out of all the babies sleeping in cribs, so I am sure we are talking about thousands of babies.  So, from that stand point, there probably is no "statistical difference."  But, IMO, the absolute difference of 82 dead babies IS significant. </p>
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<p>SIDS isn't relevant to the discussion.  SIDS has no known cause, even after autopsies and other tests are done, it cannot be determined what caused the baby to die.  Therefore there's nothing to attribute to the crib OR adult bed.  The numbers given above are things that are directly attibutable to the crib or adult bed.</p>
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<p> <a href="http://sids-network.org/facts.htm" target="_blank">http://sids-network.org/facts.htm</a></p>
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<div> <span style="font-family:'Comic Sans MS';">Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS) is a medical term that describes the sudden death of an infant which <strong>remains unexplained after all known and possible causes have been carefully ruled out through autopsy, death scene investigation, and review of the medical history.</strong></span></div>
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<p>I do have to say I find it ironic that we are now discussing percentages making numbers statistically insignificant when the original post I responded to said this</p>
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<div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
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<div> just saw this. It made me wonder ho the government can still claim that crib sleeping is safer than co-sleeping. I guess they could say it is once they work out all the kinks. In the meantime, just like with prescription drugs, they expect to lose <strong>a few lives</strong> before it all works perfectly. I guess that's acceptable to the bureaucrats as long as it's not their babies dying.</div>
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<p> I don't know if you meant something different, but especially the bolded part makes me think you were thinking absolute numbers here too.  Eighty two more dead babies due to the adult beds (again, completely ignoring ALL instances of another person in bed rolling over on the infant, though if we are being honest, intoxicants or not, that is something that is impossible when a baby is sleeping alone in a crib) is quite a bit more than "a few lives" IMO.  And 82 more dead babies due to being in an adult bed is still more dead babies than what caused the drop side cribs to be banned (the ban is based on 32 deaths over the course of a decade)</p>
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<p>Statistically insignificat or not, it's an unfortunate fact that more infant deaths are caused by adult beds than are caused by cribs.  The safest place for an infant to sleep is in a crib in the same room as her parents. </p>
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<p> </p>
 

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<br><br><div class="quote-container"><span>Quote:</span>
<div class="quote-block">Originally Posted by <strong>frugalmama</strong> <a href="/community/forum/thread/1285949/us-government-bans-drop-side-cribs#post_16139388"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a><br><br><p>I wonder how this will affect parents in wheelchairs - a non-drop side crib just doesn't work when you can't stand to get the baby out. It barely works with a drop side as it is.</p>
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<p>I hope they come back out with the old cribs that had a swinging door type side.</p>
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<br><br><p><a href="http://www.babeetenda.com/crib.htm" target="_blank">http://www.babeetenda.com/crib.htm</a> :)</p>
 

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<p>Since this thread references a study which Mothering has had a response to, it might be useful to include the article from Mothering: <a href="http://mothering.com/who-wants-to-sleep-alone" target="_blank">http://mothering.com/who-wants-to-sleep-alone</a></p>
 
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