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<a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070824/ap_on_he_me/dying_from_childbirth_1;_ylt=AlmKPinE3NUyNEyLSwPlQYcE1vAI" target="_blank">http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070824/...yLSwPlQYcE1vAI</a>
 

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even if the rise is due to "better reporting" the numbers are too high<br><br><img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"><br><br>
A
 

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It really bothers me that there is not a uniform definition of maternal death. That has a lot to do with it. I think in MA a maternal death is defined as a woman dying within a year of giving birth and in other states it's within 30 days. So, I think the numbers are definitely a lot higher than are reported.
 

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Yes, I have to agree there. I personally think that maternal deaths should be defined as death resulting from either childbirth or complications resulting from childbirth, within the first year of the child's life. I think that the rise is partially due to increased reporting, but I also think that over-medicalization of childbirth and the increase in c-sections are also factors. From a medical stand point, they view medicalizing childbirth as simply being cautious. The trouble is, when you over do it, you can actually cause complications that may eventually lead to the demise of mother or baby, or both. For example, a death from infection after a questionable c-section, or death from hemorrhage after a OB pulls on the placenta to get it out sooner. I do not think that obstetricians are inherently evil at all; in fact I believe most truly believe that what they are doing is right, because that's what they have been trained to think. The trouble lies within the whole system, not within individual practitioners (although as with any profession, you will find bad apples).<br><br>
I'm also sure that poverty and the inability to access health care also plays a role in this. In areas where a large part of the population lives at or below the poverty level, accessing needed services can be very difficult, and when such services are accessed, people can sometimes face discrimination from the health care system itself due to class and/or race issues.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>angelpie545</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/8989111"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Yes, I have to agree there. I personally think that maternal deaths should be defined as death resulting from either childbirth or complications resulting from childbirth, within the first year of the child's life. I think that the rise is partially due to increased reporting, but I also think that over-medicalization of childbirth and the increase in c-sections are also factors. From a medical stand point, they view medicalizing childbirth as simply being cautious. The trouble is, when you over do it, you can actually cause complications that may eventually lead to the demise of mother or baby, or both. For example, a death from infection after a questionable c-section, or death from hemorrhage after a OB pulls on the placenta to get it out sooner. I do not think that obstetricians are inherently evil at all; in fact I believe most truly believe that what they are doing is right, because that's what they have been trained to think. The trouble lies within the whole system, not within individual practitioners (although as with any profession, you will find bad apples).<br><br>
I'm also sure that poverty and the inability to access health care also plays a role in this. In areas where a large part of the population lives at or below the poverty level, accessing needed services can be very difficult, and when such services are accessed, people can sometimes face discrimination from the health care system itself due to class and/or race issues.</div>
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I absolutely agree.<br><br>
But, I don't know how OBs can continue to do what they do and think it's the best in the face of all of the evidence to the contrary.<br><br>
The nurse-midwifery service at Columbia Presbyterian (Allen Pavilion) in NYC was shut down after CNMs provided safe and satisfying care there for decades. Why? The head OB said that because their population was in Harlem and the surrounding areas, they were high risk, so bye bye midwives. No matter that the demographic was the same when the midwives were there.<br><br>
What really happened? That hospital was involved in a huge Medicaid fraud scandal, whereby OBs were trying to bill for births done by midwives to get more money. They were caught, and then the hospital fired ALL of the midwives! Additionally, when the head OB came in, a woman BTW, she actually said she wanted to increase the c-section rate!<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/yikes2.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="yikes">:<br><br>
The fraud was reported but not too much. They sold the closing as a health concern for the women in the community. I shudder to think what is happening to those women now. I trained in that hospital and I can tell you that the doctors there, in my experience, have little respect for that demographic.
 

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Hmm... maternal death rates going up, c/s rate going up.... sure it's just correlational, but I don't think it's a complete coincidence. I wonder how high it will get until OBs start to admit that the c/s rate needs to come down to save women's lives... 40% c/s rate? 50%? I'm thinking more like 50%. They're pretty stubborn.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>ebony</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/8990503"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I absolutely agree.<br><br>
But, I don't know how OBs can continue to do what they do and think it's the best in the face of all of the evidence to the contrary.<br><br>
The nurse-midwifery service at Columbia Presbyterian (Allen Pavilion) in NYC was shut down after CNMs provided safe and satisfying care there for decades. Why? The head OB said that because their population was in Harlem and the surrounding areas, they were high risk, so bye bye midwives. No matter that the demographic was the same when the midwives were there.<br><br>
What really happened? That hospital was involved in a huge Medicaid fraud scandal, whereby OBs were trying to bill for births done by midwives to get more money. They were caught, and then the hospital fired ALL of the midwives! Additionally, when the head OB came in, a woman BTW, she actually said she wanted to increase the c-section rate!<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/yikes2.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="yikes">:<br><br>
The fraud was reported but not too much. They sold the closing as a health concern for the women in the community. I shudder to think what is happening to those women now. I trained in that hospital and I can tell you that the doctors there, in my experience, have little respect for that demographic.</div>
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That's terrible. I don't really have any words for that.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>holly6737</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/8990731"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Hmm... maternal death rates going up, c/s rate going up.... sure it's just correlational, but I don't think it's a complete coincidence. I wonder how high it will get until OBs start to admit that the c/s rate needs to come down to save women's lives... 40% c/s rate? 50%? I'm thinking more like 50%. They're pretty stubborn.</div>
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I'm guessing higher, if ever. I've seen OBs on the online professional forums chatting about how great it would be to have a 100% c-section hospital to work at. They don't see <i>any</i> downside.
 

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I just don't understand that. The research just goes SO MUCH against it. How can they just spit in the face of good, hard science? SO glad my last babe was born at home! (I mean, personally, not to be judgemental about anyone else's decisions...)
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Storm Bride</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/8991070"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I'm guessing higher, if ever. I've seen OBs on the online professional forums chatting about how great it would be to have a 100% c-section hospital to work at. They don't see <i>any</i> downside.</div>
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Oh and I commend you for even being able to go on those forums. I would have definite rage issues.
 

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<div>Originally Posted by <strong>holly6737</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/8991123"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Oh and I commend you for even being able to go on those forums. I would have definite rage issues.</div>
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umm....I haven't been back in a while. My childbirth history can be summed up with "I'm having a HBA3C this time", yk? The attitudes on those forums were starting to make me a little nuts, and there was no way I was going to be able to gestate in peace if I kept going there.<br><br>
I think it's good to "know thy enemy", but I'll save it for when I'm not pregnant!
 
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