using time outs despite my best intentions not to

Your life sounds like mine about 8 months ago... s

I use a 2 minute time out for my ds1 (he's now 2.5 y.o.) and I consider it a time out for me even though he's the one who goes to his room. When he deliberately wakes ds2, smacks him, whatever and I'm already at the end of my rope, instead of spanking him (which in that state I desperately want to do but I *know* it won't help and will even hurt), I plunk him in his room. I hold the door shut for two minutes. I don't care if he plays or finds something fun to do. I just need the separation and I find that we can all go on with our lives afterward - the tension of the initial situation has broken, I've had a few minutes of space (even if he's screaming on the other side of the door) to breathe and I can generally keep it together. It almost always works to reframe the situation.

Now, it doesn't keep him from doing what I don't want him to do (waking up ds2, etc) and I DO find myself threatening "do you want to go to your room?" It actually works for now, I'm ashamed to say. I also believe that punishment doesn't work but it seems a powerful deterrent for now in our house...still working that one out. I try to give other choices whenever possible, but I do resort to the time-out threat when I'm desperate :

Probably the most important skill I've learned is how to avoid the situation in the first place - but it took me a long time (read: months) to sort that out and things are constantly changing as everyone goes through new stages.

Time out isn't all good or all bad...it's in the way that you do it. Of course you need to stop the behavior, but that doesn't mean it has to be a punishment...you'd stop other behavior that was utterly over the line, like running into a busy street. When we give DD time out, it's not to punish...it's to teach her to get out of a situation where her behavior is out of control and take time to think. We always do time-out WITH her because the idea of calming down and reflecting on her behavior on her own is a little over DD's head at the moment. I'm not sure if this is an option for you with other babe to juggle, but maybe you can think of a way that it would work for you. If you can't control your reaction in the heat of the moment, you can't...but you CAN discuss later with DD how you were feeling and whether your reaction was appropriate.

As far as your DD ultimately learning her lesson...you're probably best off to go with the "hitting hurts" and "gentle touches" bit and the positive reinforcement when she's in a better mood. These techniques go a lot farther when everyone is calm.

Of course, my baby#2 is yet to be born, and DD isn't quite 3yo yet, so take my advice for whatever you think it's worth

I don't think time outs are "bad" It's all in how you use it. I try to be GD as much as possible, but like everyone I'm just trying to do the best I can while teaching appropriate behavior. Sometimes I'm just not capable of being perfectly patient and rational... like when my LO throws a shoe at my face! :

I can relate to the feelings of being so frustrated that I need the separation more than he does. He knows that certain behaviors, hitting other people and throwing things are automatic time outs. I have a timeout chair because I didn't want to use his room as a place of punishment. So I use the chair to remove him from the situation while not completely isolating him. It gives me a chance to regroup before I react. I think we started TO when he was about 2yo. I did have to initially teach him to sit there, but he does pretty good with it now. I do the setting the timer thing and talk to him about it afterwards.
As he has gotten older, he's 3 now, there have been days where I told him he needed to go calm down in his room and come back when he feels ready. I don't call that a TO though and do not consider it a punishment.
TO is in the chair and generally reserved for deliberately hurting someone or destruction of property type stuff.

I initially tried "time-in" but it did not work at all. He would get worked up and even angry at me for trying to hold him when he's upset. I think a lot has to do with personality, of both the parent and the child, and different things work for different people at different stages of development.

I don't really have any suggestions, and I totally get what you mean about talking about it and all that not feeling like enough.

I do want to provide a different perspective. I don't see this as a "time out". IME, time outs are given as a punishment and often in ways that don't make sense. I saw someone give a time out for a child who didn't finish his lunch!

On those occasions when we send dd1 or ds2 to their room, it's for a specific reason. They need to calm down, or they need to be removed from the room. They police themselves and can come back as soon as they're settled down. They can be sent up there for fighting (one of them stays downstairs, and the other goes upstairs until he/she think he/she can get along with their siblings) - or they get separated by one being on the patio and the other in the living room (that often means that dd1 was outside playing, and ds2 went out to hassle her, so he has to stay inside and play for a while, so he wouldn't pester her). It's not punitive. It's an attempt to either separate squabbling siblings, or to allow one of them a chance to calm down when they need it. I think a true time out is punitive. So, I don't do time outs, as I think of them...but I do separate children who are getting to each other. Sometimes, they have to play in their room, if they're being too noisy downstairs - same principle. DD1, in particular, gets way overstimulated and doesn't realize it, so she needs some guidance. She's much, much better at recognizing when she needs quiet/alone time than she used to be, but still sometimes misses it.

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When it has worked for us- it has been the Nanny 911 model of calmly putting the child back in the spot and resetting the timer. The key is not getting emotional and angry. I recently read something that has been helping me currently. "I am an oak tree" I am experiencing severe morning sickness and it is so hard to stay calm with my 4 yr old. Anyway- this sentence reminds me that I am not going to let a 4 yr old calling me "stupid head" totally unhinge me. Breathe deep..."You are an oak tree"