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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I haven’t been very active lately. I have stopped commenting on the main discussion board after answering a trap disguised as a hypothetical question where I was repeatedly told I was “BSing” and lying and not answering questions, even though I answered it 7 different times. It was clear at that point that a vaccinating viewpoint wasn’t welcome on the main vaccine discussion board, and I was okay with that. However, lately the vaccinating on schedule forum has been repeatedly taken to that board to debate our threads as well, and I am sure that would not be welcome for us to just go into INV and take all their threads to the main board to comment on and mock. I have seen teacozys story of a nonvaccinator who changed his mind today was taken to the main board and tore apart and mocked, and Amy Parker’s piece has been “deconstructed” in ways that if it was done to someone who suffered a vaccine reaction and moved from pro-vaccine to vaccine critical would not be tolerated. It seems these individuals even though they fit many aspects of a subgroup it is open season on them because of their vaccination stance. And of course, they are all called trolls and/or shills and just disregarded.
But it leads to a larger problem I see, this extends beyond this website and I am not sure if anything can be done about it, vaccinating parents are being chased out of many subcultures and groups of other concerns because a few voices have dominated and made them non-vaccinating by default. I worry that means that some people are abandoning other practices that are beneficial because they won’t abandon vaccination. I understand that the overall number is small but the vitriol, intensity and volume is so high that there is no room for alternative viewpoint. I worry that people who could benefit from things like babywearing, cloth diapering, intacivism, homeschooling, breastfeeding, chiropractic, gentle parenting, natural birth practices and nonmedical interventions for physical and mental health are not able to be supported because of their vaccinating view. Either because they are thrown out (like a breastfeeding group I was in that leader said you weren’t welcome for a month after vaccination because of the risk of shedding) or indirect because they don’t feel welcomed in a place where another view they have is openly mocked and they are called ignorant. I have seen a lot of examples of this too.
This website has lots of great information and resources, but if you are a vaccinating parent you aren’t welcome. It would be even stronger for parents trying to make a decision or selectively vaccinating, because your view is so openly mocked. And you can’t even come to the VOS because our threads just get moved to be debated, mocked and commented on by those who are vaccine critical.
Do you think that positive health support are being lost to the vaccine debate? I don’t think that anyone who has made the decision to vaccinate will decide not to by this, but I do worry they will give up on the unrelated health positive activity that has been overtaken with a vaccine message without allowance for the vaccinating voice. And do you think we (as vaccinating parents who subscribe to these other ideas as well) can do anything about It?
 

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They're trying. I've been here since March of 2008 and I've been accused of lying about my kids, especially my oldest. Which is funny because I was a non vaxer for over 6 years and was never accused of lying about him until I "switched sides". I don't care, I'm still welcome in the other forums and MDC Facebook groups.
 

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Also I agree that they would never allow someone to question a vaccine injury story. *eye roll*
 

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I hope I'm allowed to post. You made a couple of points about selective vaccinating parents, and I feel that this describes our family.

I have to say that as a selective vaccinating parent, I've never felt openly mocked on the board. Not adequately understood perhaps as seen in recent discussion, but not mocked.

As the parent of a selective vaccinating family, I also don't feel chased out of any groups or subcultures. On the contrary, because of where I live and the extensive and directed attack on any family here who does not vaccinate according to the schedule, we are aware of the sustained level of hatred in the general public and the continued efforts of the government to chip away at any last rights we have as a family to work with our GP to make health decisions for our children. I find it particularly frustrating that we ARE vaccinating, our GP is onboard with what we are doing, but this is not good enough for the government.

I have to say though that as a family we've never been put off healthy living advice because of our stance. Actually in my circle of good friends, I know we're one of the few families who do vaccinate, but it's not been an issue. We've BTDT for most of the items on the typical crunchy parent list and we still incorporate a lot of this philosophy as our kids get older. Interesting that you mention chiropractic as well because that is also under attack here. The national health board and the various health ministers are currently being lobbied to disband the Chiropractic Board of Australia. I have a feeling that in a few years' time, chiropractic will be illegal here. Likewise, women living in Australia know that access to home birth is almost non-existent.

It's unfortunate that you feel mocked, ridiculed, and unsupported. If it's any commiseration, I can empathise because I feel that way most of the time living where I do. Even as a vaccinating family, we are subject to the same vitriol that non-vaccinating families face. We get told by Joe Q Public that we should have had our kids taken off us for not following the government's regulations. The same regulations as I pointed out in my other thread, that include one product for my child that lacks any clinical data for that particular application and that is actually contraindicated abroad.

I have to say finally that I've always learned something from reading the various viewpoints. I may not agree with everything I read, but without the diversity of voices in different situations, I think personally I'd probably be less informed by it.
 

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@dakotacakes - I think you raise a very interesting point. I've always felt unwelcome here at some level, but I've also felt that it was important to stay to make it clear there are parents who identify with a lot of what MDC stands for and consciously choose to vaccinate.

I don't know if you've noticed (prob not!), but I've also backed out of the main board for a while (sorry to leave you alone out there @teacozy - I know from experience that's the least fun way to do it).

I think this board has the potential to be a very interesting resource for vaccinating MDC parents. I'm still confused why it got split from selective and delayed. That's ancient history now I suppose, but felt like an attempt to make us look small and irrelevant in MDC. I suspect we are in the majority honestly, but most vaccinating MDC parents don't engage in the vaccinating boards (very sensible of them honestly!).

I do think the link to no vaccinating calls into question some very good/healthy parenting choices for a lot of the world. I do agree that's a shame.

How about a thread about how we on this sub-board identify as natural parents? Seems we are often called to defend that, so that is something which would be very supportive to me. :)
 
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Also I agree that they would never allow someone to question a vaccine injury story. *eye roll*
Oh totally. Those are the Holy Grail That Cannot Be Questioned. Like this paper that goes into the extremely sad and tragic "Ian's Voice" story I'm sure would elicit outrage (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3906284/).

There really does seem to be some disconnect here. I am not sure why some seem to suggest that pointing out a baby/person dying from something other than a vaccine is seem as callous. The death is tragic either way. Reminds me again of the thread where @prosciencemum and I were mocked and attacked for suggesting the young girl Meredith's death didn't really seem to fit a vaccine reaction narrative. Later turns out we were right all along and that she died from a benadryl overdose. She was a young girl who had her whole life ahead of her, it's tragic either way. Do people have more sympathy for a child who is paralyzed from Polio vs a child who is paralyzed because they got hit by a car while walking across the street? I really don't get it.
 

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OT but has anyone else had trouble changing their icon picture? I've been ready for a change for a while but it never seems to update the image even though the new icon is on my profile. Must be some sort of bug I guess.
 

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I have a suggestion for us. Just because they want to bring every one of our posts to the main board to discuss does not mean that we have to participate. I move that we ignore attempts to bring our posts over there. If they want to discuss it, let them. Until or unless a mod says otherwise.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I have a suggestion for us. Just because they want to bring every one of our posts to the main board to discuss does not mean that we have to participate. I move that we ignore attempts to bring our posts over there. If they want to discuss it, let them. Until or unless a mod says otherwise.


I agree taking the high road is likely the best option. There is always the temptation for retaliation, but I do believe you are right. They just want to disallow our subforum. It is a bit ironic because it is just providing the evidence for the purpose of this thread. I will also try to get my thread back on track.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
The main impetus for this thread was actually a real life experience, which is in many ways similar to online experiences as well.


I breastfed both of my children. When my daughter was born I had some other issues that made holding her on my stomach putting any pressure their uncomfortable. I had trouble with the football hold (TBH my coordination leave a lot to be desired). So I joined a breastfeeding support group to see if some of the seasoned women could help me figure out how to do it. I started the same time as a first time mom of a 2 month old who was having a very difficult time with breastfeeding, her ped had recommended she seek out a breastfeeding group. This group is the only one advertised in my area. As part of our "welcome" we were advised that if we happened to vaccinate we had to keep our babies away for a month after their vaccines. She started to cry and got up to leave (her baby was vaccinated at her 2 month appointment) she was shamed for it. I also left, because I was going to vaccinate so being part of this was not going to help.


So she was left with no support (and she really needed it). I did meet with her that day and a couple weeks after to try to help her, but before the baby was 3 months old she switched to formula. I saw her the other day at the supermarket and it brought it back all the frustrations. Maybe she wouldn't have been successful anyway (she was having a really hard time, was young and living at home and her mother did not appear supportive of her having a baby and was of no assistance) but it would have been nice if she could have gotten more support.


I also think it is true that more people are vaccinating that just aren't up front about it when powerful voices that are non-vaccinating are speaking out first. But I think that is a shame, and is why I refuse to do that. I also am strong enough to continue breastfeeding and other "crunchy" things, but I do wonder how many people abandon them.
 

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I agree taking the high road is likely the best option. There is always the temptation for retaliation, but I do believe you are right. They just want to disallow our subforum. It is a bit ironic because it is just providing the evidence for the purpose of this thread. I will also try to get my thread back on track.
I think I recall there being quite a few (not all) non-vaccine members here arguing against pro-vaxers having their own forum. I do think deep down a lot of them dislike us having this space for whatever reason, which likely plays some kind of roll in continuing to bring thread after thread after thread into the discussion forum.
 

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A bump to make this easy to find for parents wondering what vaccinating parents get out of MDC.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Thank you for bumping this. The past week has highlighted this thread for me once again. I think it is important. I really am afraid that this is playing into breastfeeding rates, as natural parenting and not vaccinating become more and more entrenched in a vocal subset and if you choose vaccination the indication is that you are not "one of us".
 

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I completely agree.

It's interesting to me that some clearly not natural things (eg using a computer to list on MDC) are deemed ok, while trying your natural immune system to fight disease is seen as so wrong by so many.

I do get that being non or antivax in the real world is hard (especially in countries with school requirements to vaccinate or get an exemption), but I don't see that as a free pass to be nasty to MDC mums who choose to vaccinate. Actually it's even explicitly against the current MDC philosophy.
 

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Just to comment that in a discussion of this @CricketVS asked vaccinating parents to flag posts which make them feel unwelcome or question their motivations to be on MDC. She'd like this to be a welcoming community for all, and would like to review Rhodes negative posts. :)
 
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