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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I found this discussion very interesting and so did those who were discussing it. It's NOT anti/PRO, per se, and those discussing it were not getting into anti-pro either.

http://whyy.org/cms/radiotimes/2016/04/11/35426/

They are talking about this story - http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/10/education/edlife/teaching-men-to-be-emotionally-honest.html?_r=0

While it gets into more it does start out about a basic saying parents use around their boys and vaccines.
@CricketVS I did not want to double-dip the topic and do feel it gets into much more here and many could be someplace else too?

Here appears to be the video the author, ANDREW REINER is talking about -

While it certainly opens up the conversation for more, let just deal with the vaccine/medial aspect part of it.

Clearly we don't treat boy and girls the same all the time.

With the recent thread that talked about needle phobia and comfort holding, here is yet another thing to consider,,,,,,,maybe? Maybe not?

Is this harmful? Is it just mainstream? Stitches besides vaccines? What do others think?
 

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I'm actually wondering what kind of parent actually would tell a toddler to take anything 'like a man'...smh...let's deliberately inflict pain, then tell the toddler to ignore his pain, and act like a 'man'...when that toddler doesn't even have a clue what a 'man' is. On top of that, we have a parent minimizing the experience/pain the child just had -- great set up for failure to be emotionally stable later on in life.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
I'm actually wondering what kind of parent actually would tell a toddler to take anything 'like a man'...smh...let's deliberately inflict pain, then tell the toddler to ignore his pain, and act like a 'man'...when that toddler doesn't even have a clue what a 'man' is. On top of that, we have a parent minimizing the experience/pain the child just had -- great set up for failure to be emotionally stable later on in life.
We do start gender typing super early here! I dad in a win class we were in at age 2 was telling this DS about what is manly!

I hear a lot about boys and crying used with any type of medial anything vs girls. I hear more "be a BIG boy", not so much be a man, maybe my area???

And many of us know that old song, Big Boys don't :crying:

ETA- I detest gener typing and my reaction to the video was the same as Andre Reiner's. Having one of each sex, never did anything even remotely like this ever get said to my DD, but in general conversation even complete strangers do make comments on "boy" things to our DS.
 

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Gets me to wondering, do moms tell their little girls to 'take it like a woman' when something that causes discomfort comes about? I have never said such things to my children, ever when in pain or suffering, and I believe it takes an emotionally stunted person to do such to a toddler as well.
 

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What does that even mean? most are probably suffering from hidden hormone imbalance from all the plastics and modified foods...Doesnt women have more pain tolerance anyways?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
What does that even mean? most are probably suffering from hidden hormone imbalance from all the plastics and modified foods...Doesnt women have more pain tolerance anyways?
I don't know!

As someone who grew up being told I ran like a girl, duh! I'm quite at a loss here!!!

I do wonder how cultural this is to the US.

As the pain tolerance- when you start popping them out, until that point, I would say we do take pain better!

I did once need a blood draw and so did male colleagues and they moaned & mosned, I guess I should have told them to man-up!
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Gets me to wondering, do moms tell their little girls to 'take it like a woman' when something that causes discomfort comes about? I have never said such things to my children, ever when in pain or suffering, and I believe it takes an emotionally stunted person to do such to a toddler as well.
I have never minimized pain in either gender of mine! I can't grasp any of this! Pain is pain! I do remind my DH how he just stood there at our DS's birth while I did it all.

I head lots of "good" used in my area, now that does really concern me if we are using "good" in taking a vaccine or having a blood draw, etc. So you are not good if you cry? Show fear? Here this author was talking about a toddler but even with older kids, this really concerns me.
 

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Disconnecting from your emotions is an important part of making it in our technological world...

Gotta start learning this early I guess.
 

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This kind of gendered language is hugely damaging to our children. It creates men who are unable to talk about their feelings, and likely contributed to their higher suicide rates.

I am disturbed at how much more gendered childhood appears to be now than it was in the 1980s.

This is not specific to vaccines of course.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Disconnecting from your emotions is an important part of making it in our technological world...

Gotta start learning this early I guess.
I'm not sure why one disconnects emotions in a technological world. We have had technological world for decades now.

I don't think I understand what you mean.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
This kind of gendered language is hugely damaging to our children. It creates men who are unable to talk about their feelings, and likely contributed to their higher suicide rates.

I am disturbed at how much more gendered childhood appears to be now than it was in the 1980s.

This is not specific to vaccines of course.
What if anything is being said in the UK to children? Are they told they are "good" when they get a vaccines?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I talked with a few and see that "good" is also being used, not just for kiddies!

Much to the dismay of older individuals they too are being told they are "good" when they get a vaccine. Clearly if you faint, you are NOT good. This does seem to be new (new normal) and also coming from health care not parents.

This study recently came out, https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/04/160404153044.htm this might factor into health care workers using "good" to tell patients when any procedure is done. From the older people I spoke to they had not been told they were "good" growing up getting things done but now it seems standard line to say this.

From parents, this "man-up" and "you did good" seems to be very American. I find being "good" just as odd, so if you have pain, cry or show emotions, you would not be "good"??? This need to please is odd but I can see why compliance is wanted within the medical community.

Are parents feeling this need to assert this "good" to get compliance?

Any who vac here getting this or say this to their kids?


----------------------------------------------------------- Now I know in the past @sciencemum has said she does a special treat after vaccinations, others have also said as well. I'm hearing this is also not the norm in other countries. Seem to also be very American as well. Is this reward done if the child is not good?

This incentive and praising also seems to be being pushed. So is it only an issue if one uses praise in the gender sense?

http://www.thevaccinemom.com/2014/06/how-to-talk-to-your-children-about-vaccines/
"Reward your children, because getting vaccines is hard. It’s never wrong to praise their bravery and take them to do something they love."
This too talks about a reward - http://www.everydayhealth.com/kids-health/10-tips-to-ease-your-childs-fear-of-shots.aspx



But here we see the opposite - this talks about being brave but does not say to reward the child, nor does it say to call the child "good" but uses "brave" - http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/820548

Now brave does seem like code for manly, so that's OK???? Those knights were mostly men.
 

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Your'e also not a 'good' adult if you do not follow ALL dr recommendations, as I have found out...because I refused a particular medication, I was labeled 'noncompliant' in my medical file.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Your'e also not a 'good' adult if you do not follow ALL dr recommendations, as I have found out...because I refused a particular medication, I was labeled 'noncompliant' in my medical file.
So true! But even those who are compliant don't seem happy either!

An older woman told me she resented her 20something nurse talking to her as if she was a child when she got her flu shot. She said she didn't need to be a "good girl" at her age!

This whole twisting of language & rewarding is baffling to me.
We "reward" (here in the US- others please feel free to let us know) almost every thing a child does and now adults too.
 

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Gendered language is damaging to our children. But I don't think it has anything to do with vaccines.

I will never tell my son to "man up" "Take it like a man" or anything else. I want him to freely express his emotions and feelings. I also will not tell my daughter to act "ladylike" or that "good girls don't do that".

I want both my children to play the way they want, wear what they want, and express the feelings that they have because that is healthy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Gendered language is damaging to our children. But I don't think it has anything to do with vaccines.

I will never tell my son to "man up" "Take it like a man" or anything else. I want him to freely express his emotions and feelings. I also will not tell my daughter to act "ladylike" or that "good girls don't do that".

I want both my children to play the way they want, wear what they want, and express the feelings that they have because that is healthy.
I think because it was used directly with getting a vaccine that concerned the NY Time author.
Conforming & assuring and turning on a dime and basically saying stuck it up and use a gender term.

I'm not sure how many do this with vaccines or use the other terms, good, brave, etc and connect it to vaccines or other medical procedures. The examples (& links) were just on vaccines so it does seem like this is the advise being given out to parents.

What I didn't see in the links I posted were much on letting children express their feelings. The one did talk about a bit, the one that did not advise giving a reward, mentioned making a plan.

I do see the vast majority of preparing your child do suggest what to say, plus advise on giving rewards.

So it's only ok if it's not a gender specific word? But if we are saying "brave" "good", you acted good, etc that really does seem like the same thing IMO
 

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I don't think getting a treat after a vaccine (or other medical appointment for that matter) is the same as telling a kid to man up. For the record, I'm almost 30 and after every OB appointment that had blood work I got a treat on the way home. I hate needles and I needed something to cheer me up. Of course, if we did a treat after a vaccine it would be regardless of if my son didn't flinch at all or if he cried and fainted.

As for the language, "take it like a man" and other such phrases bother me as well. Not just for vaccines, but like was pointed out up thread gendered language hurts our children. Around here I hear a lot more "they were so brave/did so well" which I still don't love but it's better than man up.


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I completely agree with everything said upthread. I do not say "take it like a man" or "act ladylike."

Putting aside the gendered language for a moment, I do wonder if perhaps there is a kernel of decent parenting in the expression?

If a needle or cut hurts, I think it is fine to express that, but I also think some children lack perspective, through nature or nurture.

I have seen children be completely shut-down or unable to function after a small cut and it isn't good.

I think how parents react to small cuts and the like may play into this. I don't think parents should be cold or insensitive to minor pain, but I think over-indulging it or turning it into something larger is often inappropriate.
 
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On treating yourself after a yucky procedure....I think most of us do it. I am not sure it is entirely bad, but I do think that always stopping at a restaurant after a yucky procedure can have some pitfalls. One, it promotes consumerism, and two, it could promote obesity or poor eating habits (food really isn't meant to be a treat for good stuff or reward for bad stuff...and it often is. We need to be careful not to promote emotional eating). We need to mix it up and redefine "treating yourself" as making time to watch tv together or read, play in the park, go for a swim, etc, etc. Ice cream is fine as a reward for a yucky day sometimes, but not always....
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
The language really concerns me!

Some faint, that happens!

This real is "new" in my world, gender or not. I never used it with my first or now my second and view anything medical as an expected event that didn't require praise in any way.

Rewarding- @kathymuggle I guess it simply never occurred to me to treat or reward. I agree on the consumer part of it. We are also a family that doesn't reward what we call expected behavior, drying dishes, cleaning etc..
I get no reward for making dinner!

An eye apt, dermatologists apt. or any other medical apt also getting a reward? Do people do this? This really is new to me.

I never thought to reward myself for having blood work or an OB apt.

ETA-I have had my share of "yucky" procedures and the last thing I thought to do was go someplace and eat a treat. I wanted to get home and rest.

Even 9 years ago and doing blood work no one commented on me doing good.
I know someone who goes quite often do to medication and they said they are getting more and more remarks on this, again older people tend to have this coming from younger people. Perhaps those who grew up with this praise?

I personally don't know how well this emotional connection to praise effects the long term, I have seen no info on this. Praise, gender or otherwise in relationship to medical procedures, vaccine being part of this.
This other "rewards" for vaccines as many (links I just posted a few) will effect the long term compliance. I don't see rewarding children for other type of medical procedures being talked about like I do around vaccines.
 
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