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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
http://kellythekitchenkop.com/can-the-church-require-vaccinations/

A church in California is requiring full vaccination for Vacation Bible School.

File this one under #thingsJesusneversaid :
"Suffer the little children to come unto me . . . unless they aren't fully vaccinated. Then you should make sure to exclude them."

Here's the greater question: Why isn't this church demanding vaccination records from every last infant, child, and adult who attends regular services? What about the youth leaders? Church council? Coffee hours volunteers?

All are welcome at the Table . . . as long as they obey the government-recommended vaccination schedule.

Really, Christians of all stripes should be up in arms over this. :irked
 

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http://kellythekitchenkop.com/can-the-church-require-vaccinations/

A church in California is requiring full vaccination for Vacation Bible School.

File this one under #thingsJesusneversaid :
"Suffer the little children to come unto me . . . unless they aren't fully vaccinated. Then you should make sure to exclude them."

Here's the greater question: Why isn't this church demanding vaccination records from every last infant, child, and adult who attends regular services? What about the youth leaders? Church council? Coffee hours volunteers?

All are welcome at the Table . . . as long as they obey the government-recommended vaccination schedule.

Really, Christians of all stripes should be up in arms over this. :irked
You realize it is this sort of rowdy behavior that gets you tagged "anti" don't you?
Deborah
 

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The Good Book does say that it was government forces that ordered all two year old and younger little boys killed in both the Book of Exodus and the New Testament.

Dr Mendelsohn spoke about this once in a lecture. He said that the midwives did not do as the Pharaoh said and kill the little boys as was decreed. I think that was the parashat that weekend.

And BTW, there is no mention of what church, what denomination, nor what city or county. MMM. It could be all made up!
 
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The Good Book does say that it was government forces that ordered all two year old and younger little boys killed in both the Book of Exodus and the New Testament.

Dr Mendelsohn spoke about this once in a lecture. He said that the midwives did not do as the Pharaoh said and kill the little boys as was decreed. I think that was the parashat that weekend.

And BTW, there is no mention of what church, what denomination, nor what city or county. MMM. It could be all made up!
There is an explanation in the comments of why the church was kept anonymous for the time being.
 
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And BTW, there is no mention of what church, what denomination, nor what city or county. MMM. It could be all made up!
It is not made up. The church is in San Diego County, CA. It is a Presbyterian. They only thing I'm leaving out is the church name because I trust the author of the guest blog post who says they are working on it internally (hopefully). I know the person who took the screenshot in this story for VBS registration. They are also applying CA's SB277 to their Sunday School and other youth activities (aside from their licensed preschool that does in fact have to comply with CA SB277).

I am a secular person myself, so I refrain from commenting much on the spiritual and theological aspect of this. But I do object strongly to them applying CA's SB277 to their church activities since that state law is intended for public and private schools and day care centers (day care center and related terminology are institutions defined and licensed by California's Community Care Licensing). It may be perfectly within this church's rights to demand vaccinations of its members (though I find that silly, personally) But it really sticks in my craw that they reference a law that doesn't apply to them - for what? Gravitas? Fear?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Yea, a church, of all places, shouldn't be so dishonest as to claim that they are subject to state law on this one. ETA: Hopefully it's just honest ignorance instead of deliberate dishonesty.

Christian theology teaches that all human beings--and yes, that includes unvaccinated and selectively vaccinated children--are made in the image and likeness of God. We follow the teachings of a man who routinely mingled with lepers and healed the diseased, so this church policy is a smidgen ironic. I mean, these children in question aren't even diseased and are still excluded from learning and sharing God's Word with their peers. But why stop there? Will that pastor let them come to church on Sunday, or are they and their parents now unwelcome in the faith?
 

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But why stop there? Will that pastor let them come to church on Sunday, or are they and their parents now unwelcome in the faith?
Well we have a new law about to commence in the fall- CA SB792- that prohibits a person from being employed or volunteering at a day care center if he or she has not been immunized against influenza, pertussis, and measles. So if this church is choosing to define all their youth based activities as "day care" then every adult that works or volunteers with the kids in these activities will also need to show proof of vaccination. It will be interesting to see if they pick and choose the laws in this regard. This is a very well-heeled church in our region, I believe the neighborhood is one of the most expensive in the country. Their church building won awards for architecture, they have numerous foundations for giving/endowments... I'm pretty sure everything they do is quite deliberate, and run past multiple committees of well-vetted professionals.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Well now that you've painted a better picture for me, I'm imagining an influential pediatrician or professor at UCSD med school on their Body of Elders. Figures. :bang (Body of Elders is Presbyterian-ese for Board of Directors :lol)

I respect the decision not to disclose the name. It's fair play to try first to work this out privately. But it's also important to let the public know about it so that California parents know what to expect. In short, it's being handled well. :thumb
 
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Well we have a new law about to commence in the fall- CA SB792- that prohibits a person from being employed or volunteering at a day care center if he or she has not been immunized against influenza, pertussis, and measles. So if this church is choosing to define all their youth based activities as "day care" then every adult that works or volunteers with the kids in these activities will also need to show proof of vaccination. It will be interesting to see if they pick and choose the laws in this regard. This is a very well-heeled church in our region, I believe the neighborhood is one of the most expensive in the country. Their church building won awards for architecture, they have numerous foundations for giving/endowments... I'm pretty sure everything they do is quite deliberate, and run past multiple committees of well-vetted professionals.
My community, for over 50 years, has run a free summer day camp. It's staffed almost entirely by volunteers from the community...mostly moms and grand moms, who set aside a couple of days a week to watch the playground, hand out snack or teach the kids to knit or bake cookies. Really. We hire a couple of good kids from the neighborhood to organize games of kickball and capture the flag. It's the one place where kids from all different schools and types of families mingle and learn about the community. You have to be a resident (or a sponsored grandchild of a resident) to attend.

The state passed a law requiring background checks for every person "in regular contact" with children in a setting OTHER than a private school setting. Because the private school lobby here is huge. The cost of that, for five weeks with dozens of volunteers was ENORMOUS, and quite a few people just said they wouldn't do it. Picture this population of retired teachers and stay at home moms (and some wah moms and dads, who take time off, just to help out here) who are in an environment where the kids run from the art room to the library to the swingset at will, who live in an extremely small community, all having to troop down and do that. We could never cover the cost. We just don't sell that many cupcakes.

But the law is not good at separating the sheep from the goats.

I hope they get this sorted. I'm spending today with someone who will probably be my next Congressman. I'm going to make sure he understands the ramifications of some of this stuff.
 

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Well we have a new law about to commence in the fall- CA SB792- that prohibits a person from being employed or volunteering at a day care center if he or she has not been immunized against influenza, pertussis, and measles.
And remember that law - SB792 - carries a jail sentence and fine if the adult is not vaccinated.
 
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And remember that law - SB792 - carries a jail sentence and fine if the adult is not vaccinated.
Do you mean if they say they're vaccinated but they really aren't, they could be jailed and/or fined?

If not, please clarify.

Thanks,
Sus
 

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This seems like a lot of hoopla over nothing, honestly.

There is no requirement or right to go to summer camp. They are well within their legal rights to require vaccines for their campers if they want to. Nit picking over their citing the SB277 laws seems really...well, nitpicky. They could take that part out and still require vaccines. My camps growing up always asked for vaccination records.
 

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Citing a law erroneously is a big deal.

I have had it happen to me (someone citing a rule that did not exist) and it called into question the persons knowledge and ethics.
 

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Citing a law erroneously is a big deal.

I have had it happen to me (someone citing a rule that did not exist) and it called into question the persons knowledge and ethics.
Yes, it happened to my daughter when she was running a home daycare. She called to get an exemption form for one of the families using her daycare and the state employee insisted there was no such thing. My daughter had to insist on talking to a supervisor before she got it sorted out.

I don't think that people should misuse the law to exclude children. If they want to exclude children they should be upfront and say they are doing it because they want to exclude children, not claim that the "state" is forcing their hand.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
The state passed a law requiring background checks for every person "in regular contact" with children in a setting OTHER than a private school setting.
So how does this work? Do government agents show up in dark suits and sunglasses to conduct random audits of mommy group play dates?
 
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
This seems like a lot of hoopla over nothing, honestly.

There is no requirement or right to go to summer camp. They are well within their legal rights to require vaccines for their campers if they want to. Nit picking over their citing the SB277 laws seems really...well, nitpicky. They could take that part out and still require vaccines. My camps growing up always asked for vaccination records.
Vacation Bible School is not summer camp. Very, very different actually.
 
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Vacation Bible School is not summer camp. Very, very different actually.
The church in question calls the kids "campers".

For whatever reason, the OP of the link doesn't want the church named so check your PMs.
 

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The church in question calls the kids "campers".

For whatever reason, the OP of the link doesn't want the church named so check your PMs.
It is a church running a religious program.

There are two issues as far as I see:

1. Citing a law that does not apply to them (likely to manipulate people into doing what they want, but without having to take responsibility for making it a a rule).

2. This is a church - a Christian one. I believe this rule goes against some major tenets of Christianity, although I am not the best to argue this point. One of the goal of christianity is to encourage people to know Jesus so they may live more like Jesus and ultimately be saved - is it not? Isn't a rule like this putting earthly issues above salvation?
 
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