[triscuitsmom]

I am looking for some different perspective. I wasn't sure where to post this but this seemed the most logical spot, but if it needs moved that's OK too.<br><br>
I am a vegetarian currently. With the except of two meals a few weeks ago I have had no animal products that required the animal to die for almost seven years. We do eat eggs (local free range only, I refuse to buy them in a grocery store), and drink milk (we are not able to get raw milk here, so we are switching to unhomogenized whole milk from homogenized whole milk).<br><br>
OK that being said our family decided to try out an omnivorous diet for the first time (as a family, both my partner and I had eaten meat before). Like I said, I made it two meals before the ethical/moral side of me just couldn't. It's been so long and it's such a huge change for me.<br><br>
So I've been doing lots of reading (currently Animal, Vegetable, Miracle) and I saw Food Inc. None of the information is really "new" for me in the sense of shocking me but it has got me thinking a lot about the merits of a local diet (which I already believed in and we do utilize our local resources some now).<br><br>
So in thinking about our diet I'm pretty sure I could do a nearly completely local diet if we ate meat. I can get grass fed (organic too although not certified) meat, right down to the bones for stock. I can also get veggies and fruits at the farmers market in the summer. I believe I've even found a source for local grains that is not far from me.<br><br>
If we continue to be vegetarian I can't get our diet that high of a percentage of local. We can't eat eggs at every meal and the dairy we have is not local (although it would be raw cheese and unhomogenized milk through a local coop supporting a local small business). I really feel like getting away from processed foods is so ideal, but I need a lot of protein these days and have been relying on foods like peanut butter, tofu, meat replacements like veggie burgers, veggie faux meats etc (I realize the contents of these but they are so quick... which is part of the problem).<br><br>
Taking into consideration personal/family health (we are for reference a family of four... me: early 20's, good physical health, active, pregnant, nursing a baby and a preschooler still; DP: mid 20's, good physical health although underweight, active; DS1: 3.5 years old, good physical health, active; and DS2: 15 months old, anemic, problems with apnea while sleeping, gets sick more than the rest of us, active and happy though); as well as considering the effect on the food we eat (given that an animal has to give it's life for us to eat it which is a significant thing for me to consider), the environment, and the people producing, processing, transporting, and selling the food... which is "better"?<br><br>
More local with more animals or less local with less animals (and no animals dying)?

 

[Magelet]

More local omnivorous diet, including gratefully eating animals. Honestly, plants have lives and feel pain too. There have even been cases of plants migrating fairly quickly (obviously not the induvidual plants, but sending their offspring in one direction or another) because of enviromental changes about to happen which haven't happened yet. Sure, an animal is more like me, in my mind, but really, I've never understood feeling horrible about an animal dieing to feed me, and not about plants, and I don't really feel bad about either. I HAVE to eat, and I cannot live without something else dieing. I do give thanks for their sacrifices, and eat what best nourishes me and the planet, and give thought to their life before death.

 

[purslaine]

From an environmental perspective, I think eating less meat (particularly cows) is the way to go. I will google when I get off this site and try and dig up a link or two - but suffice to say what you eat seems to be more important in the environmental game than where it comes from.<br><br>
Ok, here:<br><br><a href="http://necarbonchallenge.org/newsletter/will_TGAL_reduce_CO2.jsp" target="_blank">http://necarbonchallenge.org/newslet...reduce_CO2.jsp</a><br><br>
"T<i>his is the conclusion of the Carnegie Mellon researchers, who said: "We suggest that dietary shift can be a more effective means of lowering an average household's food-related climate footprint than 'buying local.' Shifting less than one day per week's worth of calories from red meat and dairy products to chicken, fish, eggs, or a vegetable-based diet achieves more GHG reduction than buying all locally sourced food."<br><br>
In fact, they calculated that a completely local diet (pretty hard to do in New England) would reduce a household's greenhouse emissions by an amount equivalent to driving a 25-mpg car 994 fewer miles per year, whereas switching off red meat just one day a week would spare 1,155 miles of driving</i>"<br><br><br>
As per the ethics of eating animals, I will leave that to your own discretions.<br><br>
As a general rule, I think the less meat we eat the better, but if you have health consideration I understand. It is rare (as I know you know) for vegetarians to be protein defecient in western countries - protein is everyone, but still some people seem to crave meat, yk?<br><br>
FWIW, at this point in time, I disagree that plants feel pain in the same way animals do. I say at this point in time because I am open to reading articles about it - I admit I do not know much about it. Are plants sentient? Do they have nerve endings?<br><br>
For a solution, I would suggest eating less meat and eating locally<br><br>
Kathy

 

[seashells]

I believe in the merits of local eating from good farms. I don't think a vegetarian but non-local diet is envrionmental at all, the amounts of waste, chemicals, fuel, lost soil fertility, loss of habit and so on far, far, far outweigh having cows eat grass and pigs eat compost - especially when the cows (or sheep) are on rotation in the fields with chickens. So to me, it's not even a contest, the carrot you eat from the grocery store being shipped 1000 miles away and grown with monsanto seed and sprayed with monsanto spray, with the fields chemically fertilized because it has lost all of its nutrients, bugs, birds, rabbits and so on killed by chemicals and machines - it just doesn't compare, to me.<br><br>
Animals die in conventional farming of vegetables. So conventional vegetables are not really a vegetarian diet to me. I was vegetarian for 10 years, and I realize the whole time it was my struggle against factory farming. Factory farming of animals is unconsciable, but the factory farming of vegatables is horrific too.<br><br>
I care for animals and I too keep wondering about eating meat. I don't eat a lot and it's not taken for granted. I go to the farm and meet the heifers that I will later eat, I feed the pigs my vegetable trimmings and fruit cores. This spring I will help some people slaughter their chickens just so I can know that I've understood what happens. I don't know whether the experience will make me ok with eating chicken or will do the opposite but I'm going anyway with an open mind.<br><br>
Personally, I've never felt that humans were herbivores but it does seem that we can certainly subsist and sometimes even thrive on that diet. But clearly we have a long tradition of meat eating. It's ok with me when the lion brings down the gazelle. It's ok with me when the hunter takes the boar, and everyone eats it and uses all the parts. So to me, local eating is part of that, you're reconnected to your food source and understand and appreciate it. Meat is no longer merely dyed pink strips on a pretty white styrofoam tray, with the average person actually having to say "I don't want to think about it" if you were to ask them how the animal lived and died to bring you that meat.

 

[Sayward]

OP, I'm not sure why you can't be a mostly-local vegetarian? If there are local slaughter farms near you, then there are local dairy farms too. At the very least in-state dairy, which is a lot more local than most and a huge step in the right direction.<br><br>
You say 'I can't eat eggs at every meal', but does that mean that as an omnivore you intend to eat meat at every meal? You don't have to have one or the other! There are tons of non-animal protein sources.<br><br>
A lot of people here are falling into a common trap that occurs when discussing this topic : comparing apples to oranges. IE, you should eat 'happy meat' because how could you possibly eat the monsanto death carrot!!?? First of all, that's not your choice. You can eat 'happy vegetables' that are organic, local, and environmentally friendly, and you can do it for a lot cheaper (and a lot greener) than the equivalent in meat. Second, um, omnivores don't eat carrots? It's just such a false dichotomy its silly. Please don't let people pull that trap on you.<br><br>
The argument that 'vegetables aren't vegetarian' is just ridiculous. Firstly, the vast majority of 'food' animals eat grain. It takes a lot more grain to feed them than it would to just directly feed people, so a lot more field mice and small mammals end up dying to make meat. And the pastured 'happy meat' displace small mammals, trample small mammals, and anyway unless you live in California those cows are not grassfed 100% year-round. Their feed is supplemented in cold months, supplemented with hay that a) is grown in fields which kills small mammals, and b) is *shipped* in on trucks to feed them (not so green after-all)<br><br>
No matter which way you slice it, eating lower on the food chain (more plants) results in less animals dying. Period.<br><br>
It's also more environmentally friendly, when you actually compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges. Period.<br><br>
You're going to get a lot of different perspectives here. I suggest you follow your heart and trust your own intuitive ethical sense. Just remember, it is absolutely possible to meet your nutritional needs as a vegetarian local-vore.<br><br><br>
ps - don't let people here make you feel guilty. nobody's perfect even if they pretend to be on the internets. most people preaching about local meat also use coconut oil like it's going out of style, which is shipped from across the world. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/winky.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Wink"><br><br>
pps - woo-hoo, typed this entire thing one-handed while nursing! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/orngbiggrin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="orange big grin">

 

[Sayward]

<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Magelet</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15355767"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Honestly, plants have lives and feel pain too.</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
With due respect, and of course you have the right to believe whatever you wish, but just for science's sake - this is not at all a fact. Pain is transmitted via axons and experienced through nerves and a nervous system. Plants do not possess these cells, or any cells even remotely resembling them. Plants cannot 'feel pain'. That's just biology. (whether or not they experience spiritual pain or something is for debate)<br><br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Magelet</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15355767"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">There have even been cases of plants migrating fairly quickly (obviously not the induvidual plants, but sending their offspring in one direction or another) because of enviromental changes about to happen which haven't happened yet.</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
Plants also grow towards light sources, send roots towards nutrient sources, and 'throw' their seeds at passing animals. These are entirely automated responses, however, and do not indicate sentience.<br><br><br>
As well, I feel I should point out that fruits/'veg' have evolved with the specific point of being eaten - that is their intended purpose. For all plants save root veggies, it is possible to eat from them without killing them, AND often it's in the plant's best interest to do so. No cow is offering up it's rump for you to carve off a nice slice. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/winky.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Wink">

 

[Alyantavid]

We are local meat eaters.<br><br>
I grow most of our food (vegetables and meat) at home so I know that my meat is healthy and had a wonderful life. I won't eat pork or beef that I haven't raised myself. Chicken, we're still working on. But we live in a huge agricultural area and I have the space to do that. We have an organic (not certified) dairy near us that has their creamery for milk. There's another organic dairy slightly further away that makes cheese. Where I live, there are huge dairies everywhere and I can buy their milk at the grocery store. But it's been shipped from miles away from my house to the plant much further away and back. And they're conventional dairies.<br><br>
I agree with Sayward, it doesn't have to be one or the other. Most of our dinners contain meat. Most breakfasts have eggs. Some have both or neither. You need to figure out if you're ok with eating meat, if you're ok with eating factory farmed meat or just grass fed. Find out what's available in your area, what you can afford and what's most important to you.

 

[triscuitsmom]

<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Sayward</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15356981"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">If there are local slaughter farms near you, then there are local dairy farms too. At the very least in-state dairy, which is a lot more local than most and a huge step in the right direction.</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
I have so much to respond to, but I'm going to have to wait until the babies give me a few more minutes uninterupted <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"><br><br>
I did just want to comment on this because I've been putting a lot of time and energy into finding the best milk we can have (I understand humans don't "need" milk, and my kids under two never drink it because they get breastmilk only for milk. After two they can have both. We are comfortable with drinking milk but want to do so in the "best" way we can).<br><br>
It's illegal to sell raw milk in Canada. So while I know that it exists, I cannot find a source of it locally. There is a local dairy (that actually supplies a lot of milk all over the province, it just happens to be located here) but everything they produce is homogenized and from what I have gathered from my reading nonhomogenized is better, although raw would be best. If I could find raw milk I'd be all over it in a heartbeat. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/thumb.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="thumbs up">

 

[Sayward]

<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>triscuitsmom</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15357321"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I have so much to respond to, but I'm going to have to wait until the babies give me a few more minutes uninterupted <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol"><br><br>
I did just want to comment on this because I've been putting a lot of time and energy into finding the best milk we can have (I understand humans don't "need" milk, and my kids under two never drink it because they get breastmilk only for milk. After two they can have both. We are comfortable with drinking milk but want to do so in the "best" way we can).<br><br>
It's illegal to sell raw milk in Canada. So while I know that it exists, I cannot find a source of it locally. There is a local dairy (that actually supplies a lot of milk all over the province, it just happens to be located here) but everything they produce is homogenized and from what I have gathered from my reading nonhomogenized is better, although raw would be best. If I could find raw milk I'd be all over it in a heartbeat. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/thumb.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="thumbs up"></div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
So then is it the case that if you began eating meat, you would go dairy free?

 

[caiesmommy]

I haven't read the pp and Im not going to go in very deep BUT we are a vegetarian MOSLY vegan family and we eat quite a bit of local. The reason we dont eat fully local isn't really b/c we're vegetarian its b/c we live in a part of Canada where we just really can't eat fresh local all the time..well Im sure we could I just couldn't tackle it<br><br>
-we do local free organic(though not certified) range eggs and unpasturized honey(the only two animal products we use)<br>
-we make our own maple syrup<br>
-ww flour from a local mill<br>
-apple/blueberry/strawberry farms w/in a 15 min drive<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/thumb.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="thumbs up"><br>
-farmers markets/our own gardens for fresh produce<br><br>
Here's where it did get tricky PROTEIN BUT we do decently!<br>
-We found a local soy bean grower that is organic but not certified-so we stock up I mean STOCK UP and freeze-yes we pay extra but he's a super nice man!<br>
-also found a local hemp seed farm a totally sweet young crunchy family we get 3lbs of hemp seeds for 20 bucks-thats beyond cheap-20lbs lasts FOREVER! I throw them into pancakes, muffins, and the like for quick protein at breakfast time<br>
-we can also get peanuts BUT we'd have to travel about 4h away..which inlaws do quite a bit so they are going to grab us some peanuts next time they got that way<br>
-also remember green beans and such have protein and are usually over looked<br><br>
I tend to believe that a vegetarian local when available diet is beter then a diet relying on meat...but thats just my beliefs...I wonder if there is a carbon counter website where you can figure it out for sure lol<img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/winky.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Wink">

 

[loraxc]

Incredibly timely thread for me, as I've been considering the same change.<br><br>
Here's what I want to get away from: the purchase of industrial soy and the purchase of "fake meat" products. As much as I try, I don't find it possible to meet all our protein/quick food/hearty stuff/kid-friendly needs without using some of those (and in any case, I have a health condition that some people say is incompatible with soy consumption). If we start incorporating local meat, it would probably be only two or three meals a week, and we would stop buying those soy/fake meat products. That would be the change.<br><br>
The problem I see is other people. If friends and family know we are eating meat, I expect that they will expect to be able to serve us meat, to take us to meatcentric restaurants, to feed it to our kids, etc. And I DO NOT WANT to eat industrial meat.

 

[triscuitsmom]

OK, I am grabbing time this evening as I'm able. Thank you so much to everyone who has posted to the thread, you've given me lots to think about. I'm going to try and process my thoughts by responding to everyone who has posted. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/thumb.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="thumbs up"><br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Magelet</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15355767"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">More local omnivorous diet, including gratefully eating animals. Honestly, plants have lives and feel pain too.<br><br>
Sure, an animal is more like me, in my mind, but really, I've never understood feeling horrible about an animal dieing to feed me, and not about plants, and I don't really feel bad about either. I HAVE to eat, and I cannot live without something else dieing.</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
I agree that plants are living too. In fact DP and I talked about this last night as we discussed our options shortly before I posted this thread. However to me it isn't animals are living, plants aren't... but for me (and DP) our views are that animals are closer to us then plants are to animals. And I agree with you. I *have* to eat *something*, but I don't agree that humans as a general rule have to eat meat. Since animals feel pain, and understand to some extent the cruelty they are put through in factory farming eating animals is worse than eating plants, though I do have to do one or both for myself to survive.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>kathymuggle</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15356255"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">From an environmental perspective, I think eating less meat (particularly cows) is the way to go. I will google when I get off this site and try and dig up a link or two - but suffice to say what you eat seems to be more important in the environmental game than where it comes from.</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
That is interesting food for though. We would not be eating grain fed, monoculture (ie. corn) fed animals. We'd be eating grass fed which I believe definitely makes a difference to the environmental picture. We also wouldn't be eating a ton of meat. Even if I thought it was an OK thing for the planet (I personally don't), my body wouldn't be happy with me if I tried to anyway.

 

[triscuitsmom]

<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>seashells</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15356317"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I believe in the merits of local eating from good farms. I don't think a vegetarian but non-local diet is envrionmental at all, the amounts of waste, chemicals, fuel, lost soil fertility, loss of habit and so on far, far, far outweigh having cows eat grass and pigs eat compost - <b>especially when the cows (or sheep) are on rotation in the fields with chickens. So to me, it's not even a contest, the carrot you eat from the grocery store being shipped 1000 miles away and grown with monsanto seed and sprayed with monsanto spray, with the fields chemically fertilized because it has lost all of its nutrients, bugs, birds, rabbits and so on killed by chemicals and machines - it just doesn't compare, to me.</b><br><br>
Animals die in conventional farming of vegetables. So conventional vegetables are not really a vegetarian diet to me. I was vegetarian for 10 years, and I realize the whole time it was my struggle against factory farming. Factory farming of animals is unconsciable, but the factory farming of vegatables is horrific too.</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
Much of your post resonated very deeply with me. I cannot at all disagree with your bolded statments. If we were to stay vegetarian we'd still buy local produce, so at least our carrots (to use your example) wouldn't be travelling thousands of miles to get here. It's just the produced food that I use as quick convenience food that I don't know if I could (or would) give up if we didn't have something to replace it with. For me meat would provide that because it doesn't take long to cook more at once and then it's there to grab quickly to throw together suppers when we need to.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Sayward</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15356981"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Y<b>ou say 'I can't eat eggs at every meal', but does that mean that as an omnivore you intend to eat meat at every meal?</b> You don't have to have one or the other! There are tons of non-animal protein sources.<br><br>
No matter which way you slice it, eating lower on the food chain (more plants) results in less animals dying. Period.<br><br>
It's also more environmentally friendly, when you actually compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges. Period.<br><br>
ps - don't let people here make you feel guilty. nobody's perfect even if they pretend to be on the internets. most people preaching about local meat also use coconut oil like it's going out of style, which is shipped from across the world. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/winky.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Wink"><br><br>
pps - woo-hoo, typed this entire thing one-handed while nursing! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/orngbiggrin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="orange big grin"></div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
You're right. I absolutely will still buy my produce locally, and continue to buy my eggs locally... so it's not like it's all the way local eating meat or non local vegetarian. It really is less black and white than that, and I thank you for reminding me.<br><br>
For the bolded part... no, I don't intend to eat meat at every meal, nor do I eat eggs at every meal now. I more just meant that we eat eggs now as one of our meal staples, but we are also using "fake meat" products, and things like peanut butter because it makes quick sandwiches that make my body feel full. I want to stop buying processed food like that, so I would need to replace it with something and all vegetables doesn't work for me either. That something I am looking for is hopefully something I can find locally, but other than eggs I was drawing a blank other than meat. We will absolutely still do vegetarian meals many times a week no matter what road we take <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/thumb.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="thumbs up"><br><br>
To your ps: thank you for that, it's a really really good reminder <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/love.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="love"><br><br>
And for your pps: WHOOO! Go you!!! <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/thumb.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="thumbs up"> I get so tired doing that because it takes forever for me <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/lol.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="lol">

 

[MountainMamaGC]

Having been both a strict vegetarian and a TFer I am just finding my niche. I eat vegetarian meals 3 days out of the week and meat the other days. Its a good way to mitagate the cost of pasture raised chicken eggs and beef. I also use organ meats which is very cost effective. I focus my vegetarian meals around beans and stirfrys and I dont eat any fake meat or soy. There are some very tasty vegetarian recipes out there.<br><br>
I have some chickens out at my brothers farm and he collects the eggs for me. Then in the late fall we will butcher them and stock up our freezer.

 

[triscuitsmom]

<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Alyantavid</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15357150"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I agree with Sayward, it doesn't have to be one or the other. Most of our dinners contain meat. Most breakfasts have eggs. Some have both or neither. You need to figure out if you're ok with eating meat, if you're ok with eating factory farmed meat or just grass fed. Find out what's available in your area, what you can afford and what's most important to you.</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
The finding out what is available is a really good point. I've been gathering all the information I can in order to make this choice but I feel like every time I learn something new there is still way more to learn <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/orngbiggrin.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="orange big grin"> I do know for sure that I am not, and will not ever, be OK with eating factory farmed meat. I disagree with it on too many levels.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Sayward</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15357385"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">So then is it the case that if you began eating meat, you would go dairy free?</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
This is still up for debate. I don't think plant "milks" are better for us nor do I think that they are great options environmentally and we do use milk in certain things that I don't know that we are going to want to give up. It's not for sure either way though.<br><br>
I should say that while I said my children <i>could</i> drink non human milk if they wished after age two they don't as a general rule. Less than once a week. I drink it sometimes never, sometimes I'll go through a phase of wanting it more, and my husband doesn't ever drink it. We do use it in other ways though as well.

 

[shantimama]

Hi there <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/smile.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="smile"><br><br>
Just a reminder of the guidelines MDC has put in place for this forum:<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">Nutrition and Good Eating and its subforums are boards of support, respectful requests of information, and sharing of ideas and experiences. To uphold this purpose MDC will not host discussions of debate or criticism within Nutrition and Good Eating, Vegetarian & Vegan Living, Traditional Foods and Meal Planning. Disagreements about dietary choices and personal beliefs should be set aside out of respect for the diversity and varying interpretations and beliefs that we hold as a community.<br><br>
We will be active in discouraging individuals from posting for the purpose of disagreement, with no interest in practicing the belief or view in discussion, or to prove a dietary concept or a belief to be wrong, misguided, or not based on fact. Controversial subjects of discussion and debate related to dietary choices and lifestyles can be found elsewhere on the internet and we invite you to seek out other sites for that purpose.<br><br>
It is our wish that Nutrition and Good Eating and its subforums be a supportive and welcoming atmosphere for everyone. Please help us achieve this by doing your part and adhering to our guidelines. And as always, please make sure your posting is in accordance with the MDC User Agreement.</td>
</tr></table></div>
Let's keep these in mind so that this thread can continue - discussion is fine, debate is not.<br><br>
Thanks everyone!

 

[ErinBird]

I used to be a vegetarian who limited dairy. About two years ago, I made the shift to include some locally raised meat and source as much as possible to be local. I wanted to support the small farms near to my home and honor the farming methods more commonly employed by small-scale growers.<br><br>
We don't eat animal products from remote or unknown sources. Many of our meals place meat as a flavor rather than a centerpiece. We do eat more meat during the cold winter months when home-canned vegetables, winter squash, and hardy greens are the only available vegetables.

 

[triscuitsmom]

I got interupted last night and couldn't finish responding. I'm back now though to hopefully catch back up.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>caiesmommy</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15357856"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I haven't read the pp and Im not going to go in very deep BUT we are a vegetarian MOSLY vegan family and we eat quite a bit of local. The reason we dont eat fully local isn't really b/c we're vegetarian its b/c we live in a part of Canada where we just really can't eat fresh local all the time..well Im sure we could I just couldn't tackle it</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
We are in Ontario as well which adds to this dilemma for sure. There is no Farmers Market for six months of the year so local produce is an issue. We can get meat delivered through the winter still here though, and for produce we are planning on freezing/canning as much as we possibly can.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>loraxc</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15358270"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Incredibly timely thread for me, as I've been considering the same change.<br><br>
Here's what I want to get away from: the purchase of industrial soy and the purchase of "fake meat" products. As much as I try, I don't find it possible to meet all our protein/quick food/hearty stuff/kid-friendly needs without using some of those (and in any case, I have a health condition that some people say is incompatible with soy consumption). <b>If we start incorporating local meat, it would probably be only two or three meals a week, and we would stop buying those soy/fake meat products. That would be the change.</b><br><br>
The problem I see is other people. If friends and family know we are eating meat, I expect that they will expect to be able to serve us meat, to take us to meatcentric restaurants, to feed it to our kids, etc. And I DO NOT WANT to eat industrial meat.</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
Wow I can relate to all of these things. The part I bolded is us too. We certainly aren't going to start eating meat three times a day everyday or anything.<br><br>
The last paragraph has weighed on us a lot as well. I'm worried that it just won't "matter" as much to other people because after all they <i>can</i> have meat if we feed it to them at home. We are still working through this.

 

[triscuitsmom]

<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>Lydiah</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15359011"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Having been both a strict vegetarian and a TFer I am just finding my niche. I eat vegetarian meals 3 days out of the week and meat the other days. Its a good way to mitagate the cost of pasture raised chicken eggs and beef. I also use organ meats which is very cost effective. I focus my vegetarian meals around beans and stirfrys and I dont eat any fake meat or soy. There are some very tasty vegetarian recipes out there.<br><br>
I have some chickens out at my brothers farm and he collects the eggs for me. Then in the late fall we will butcher them and stock up our freezer.</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
That sounds like a great compromise! That resonates with me a lot as well.<br><br><div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>ErinBird</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/15359408"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">I used to be a vegetarian who limited dairy. About two years ago, I made the shift to include some locally raised meat and source as much as possible to be local. I wanted to support the small farms near to my home and honor the farming methods more commonly employed by small-scale growers.<br><br>
We don't eat animal products from remote or unknown sources. Many of our meals place meat as a flavor rather than a centerpiece. We do eat more meat during the cold winter months when home-canned vegetables, winter squash, and hardy greens are the only available vegetables.</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
All of this makes sense to me too. Really good food for thought <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/thumb.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="thumbs up">

 

[triscuitsmom]

Whew, I think I managed to respond to everyone, I hope.<br><br>
I think we've decided to start incorporating some meat into our diet. If it means that we will cut out most if not all of the processed foods we are eating now then I'm willing to try because I still think that is healthier for us. I can feel good about getting to know the people who produce all of our food. The resources I have here I'll admit are not as varied as in some places and maybe other places it would be easier for us to eat completely local vegetarian and still feel like I was getting everything my body is asking for.<br><br>
Now if only I could find milk locally I'd be completely content I think <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/winky.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="Wink"> I did however find cheese made with local goats milk today and ate curd for the first time in over five years. Oh.my.word. I have never ever tasted curd that was so yummy in my whole life and I have been a life long lover of curd so that is saying a lot. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/love.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="love">