[purplesmiley]

I did post this on gentle discipline(?) but was advised that I might get some better advise here

I am having MAJOR problems with DD2 (who will be 9y next month) I feel like the worst mother in the world and really, really need some advice

Background:

She has always been very tempermental/emotional and a lot more difficult to deal with than any of my other kids. I just thought she would grow out of it. But these past few months she has got a LOT worse - screaming and shouting, getting angry over virtually nothing (more than usual) all day every day. Flying at her brother and sister to hit/kick them over nothing. She is always saying she wishes she was dead and she wishes us dead and she wants to kill herself. She told me a couple of weeks ago (after I told her off and she stormed upstairs) that she put a carrier bag over her head to kill herself but it got too hot so she took it off!

It was after this episode that I took her to see the GP as I just couldn't deal with her behaviour anymore. He referred us on to the child mental health service and we had our initial assessment visit yesterday. The dr thinks it is very likely she has aspergers or something on the autistic spectrum and is putting her forward to be assessed properly. They asked me to get a report from the school and when I went to speak to the head (small school so she knows all the pupils well) she didn't seem all that surprised and said it did explain a lot (she said she has done a course in aspergers). I'll admit when I did an internet search on aspergers it does fit my DD

I did use some homeopathy on her when she was at her worst (thanks to an online friend/homeopath) which did help calm her intense anger/irritability down a bit.

But I have one big problem which I am finding very difficult to deal with ...

Over the past few months she has become obsessed with DS1 (6yo) and won't allow him anywhere near her. She won't touch anything he has touched or allow him to touch her. If she has to touch something he has touched (such as the sofa/door handle) she will have to use a cloth or baby wipe to touch it or wipe it/herself. She won't let him even look at her - she makes him turn his head the other way if he has to walk past her (at a distance). We went on a 2hr car journey at the weekend and she made him look out of his window all the way there. She says she doesn't like him because his breath smells, he makes funny noises and he doesn't wash his hands! She will fly at him to hit or kick him for no reason other than he's there a lot of the time. And she screams and shouts at him a lot of the time too to order him about.

I feel like a useless mother as I can't stop this behaviour. My poor sweet DS is being bullied in his own home and I can't protect him. I tell her off or I send her for time out but it doesn't change anything. She just yells that she hates me and I don't love her. She doesn't think she's doing anything wrong, even when I explain it to her when she's in a calm mood. You just can't reason with her - at all. I tell DS to ignore her when she tells him to look away or move away etc but he is so scared of her that he does what she says.

She is generally ok with the 2 little ones and is on/off with DD1.

I desperately need to get control back but don't know how. Please help me.

 

[Lovenest]

A big

to you mama.
Sounds like you are dealing with alot.
I would start with a talk to the ped and go from there.
Someone else on here may have more info, thats where we started.

 

[myjulybabes]

Quote:

Originally Posted by purplesmiley Over the past few months she has become obsessed with DS1 (6yo) and won't allow him anywhere near her. She won't touch anything he has touched or allow him to touch her. If she has to touch something he has touched (such as the sofa/door handle) she will have to use a cloth or baby wipe to touch it or wipe it/herself. She won't let him even look at her - she makes him turn his head the other way if he has to walk past her (at a distance). We went on a 2hr car journey at the weekend and she made him look out of his window all the way there. She says she doesn't like him because his breath smells, he makes funny noises and he doesn't wash his hands! She will fly at him to hit or kick him for no reason other than he's there a lot of the time. And she screams and shouts at him a lot of the time too to order him about.

Obviously, her way of dealing with this isn't acceptable, however, it is entirely possible that his breath DOES smell and he IS making noises that truly bother her. People on the spectrum often percieve things very differently, and notice things that other people do not. Which doesn't make it ok for her to hit, kick or otherwise terrorize him. Not at all. But coming from a place of understanding why she does it may make for a much more productive discussion on alternatives.

On this issue, I'd sit down with her when she's calm, and let her know that while he may be bothering her, the way she's dealing with it isn't working and isn't ok, and simply can't continue. So, dd, what do you think we can do about this? Let her list out all the solutions she can think of, even if they're really silly, maybe add some of your own, then focus in on the ones that will actually work and are fair. It's not about "getting control of her', but teaching her to control herself.

Of course, on the whole, it's a lot more complex than just this one situation. I think you're moving in the right direction by seeking professional help.

to you I hope the professionals and the wise mamas here can provide you with more advice to get things running more smoothly!

 

[mom3b1?]

Hi!

It sounds like this child has a lot of anger as well as Asperger's. Asperger's itself doesn't cause anger, directly. It does cause a lot of misunderstanding, which can lead to anger, and I"m thinking this might be happening here. If this isn't dealt with it can develop into more serious problems.

My 10 yo is doing very well now, but has had more issues with anger in the past. I've known that something was different about him for a very long time, but he was only diagnosed last year when he was 9, for a bunch of reasons, especially insurance and financial.

Asperger's is a sensory thing, so it's very possible that she really is being overwhelmed by sounds, smells, and anything else like that. My son has a special headset he wears that dapens the sound. I think his step-dad got them at Lowe's. They are meant for hearing protection when dealing with loud equipment. My son likes knowing he has them, even if he chooses not to use them sometime. He's more in control.

Lots of things freak him out, like showers, unexpected changes, small disappointments. He's got this thing about the color blue. If we are looking for shirts, cereal bowls, or whatever, and he can't find a blue one, he can go ballistic. He's more sad than angry.

Sound familiar?

Since his diagnosis he's improved tremendously. Most of the time you wouldn't even know that there is something different about him. Now that he understands why it is that he feels so strongly about these things, and that other people don't understand, he's able to moderate some of his behavior himself. He now knows we aren't trying to annoy him, we simply aren't aware of the magnitide of these little things in his perception.

He's done extremely well in school this year, and has become popular and a much happier boy. We now know that his area of impairment is cognitive speed (Thank God he just has this one area, and ADHD, it could be a lot worse). His teacher, in a mainstream classroom, gives him extra time and support to overcome this. We also know that he is capable of high level work if he has that extra time. He has achieved a lot, and feels really good about it. He's a hard worker and a sweet kid. He's blossomed, and I couldn't be prouder of him. It's very common for Asperger's kids to have ADHD, but it's possible to have either one without the other.

Maybe that's more than you needed to know about my son, but I'm so proud it's hard to stop bragging!

A great book that has helped our family, especially my son, understand, accept and feel positive about his diagnosis is "All Cat's Have Asperger's."
I've always said this child was at least 50% cat, because he has a very catty personality. I love cats. It's a small picture book, but it says so much! He's got a great brain, it's just different.

Anything by Tony Atwood is good. He's an Australian Doctor who has dedicated himself to researching Asperger's Syndrome. Sometimes he tours other countries to lecture, and I've heard he's a really good speaker.

I hope you found something helpful in this.

Kiley

PS. My third son is being evaluated for Asperger's as well. Now that we can understand what he's saying, we can tell he's acting very Aspergery. It's unusual to have more than one in a family.

 

[myjulybabes]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mom3b1? A great book that has helped our family, especially my son, understand, accept and feel positive about his diagnosis is "All Cat's Have Asperger's." I've always said this child was at least 50% cat, because he has a very catty personality. I love cats. It's a small picture book, but it says so much! He's got a great brain, it's just different.

Oh no way!

I've gotta find that book. I've always said cats are autistic.

Quote:

It's unusual to have more than one in a family.

I don't know about that... dh and I have Asperger's and ds has "classic" autism.

A friend of mine has 3 kids...all on the spectrum.

Anyway, that's all off topic. Sorry, I'll stop derailing the thread!

 

[Sierra]

In matters like this, I find adults with aspergers to have the most insight. That's why I like the book _The Fabric of Autism: Weaving the Threads Into a Cogent Theory_ by Judith Bluestone because it is written by someone who is a neuroscientist but who also has autism. I agree with the above posts (sounds like a great book too, with the cats), but I would say definitely check this book out as it also has some specific ideas about how to deal with situations like this. In fact, your daughter's response to her brother reminds me of a specific story in the book, about a boy who got into all kinds of fights after lunch at school. With a little investigation, the author of the book figured out that he was responding to the smells of different foods on the other children's breath. The class developed a routine where each child would bring a menu with their lunches and the menus would be read to the class before the lunches were opened. Just having a little warning helped.

I'm not saying this is what is going on with your daughter, I am just saying that her reactions may be a part of her trying to survive when her fragile neurological system is in danger. All behavior is communication. What is needed is (1) survival mechanisms that maintain safety in your home (for your son and everyone), and (2) possibly some ways to reduce the sensory issues that threaten to dysregulate her sensitive neurological system.

 

[Roar]

It is a lot to process really fast. My strongest suggestion is that you get all the help you can find for your family. Did you get a treatment plan from the mental health people yet?

Also, I wouldn't rule out individual therapy for yourself if you can get it. This is really big stuff to cope with and typically involves lots of worry, grief, anger... and you deserve all the help you can get.

 

[mengmommy]

Wow, I'm very new to all this too. Dh and I after much research have come to the conclusion that I more than likely have Aspergers, (as well as my brother,) and our son. I definitely agree with the other posters, after having gone through some similar issues myself growing up. One thing that I have learned with myself and my son is B vitamins REALLY help us control ourselves. I feel a LOT more in control of my emotions...rather than them controlling me. My son is a totally different kid when he has them too. So I mix some into his morning oatmeal EVERY day. We also will take chamomille on occasoin too...him not too often, but I will if things really start freaking me out. My anxiety gets the best of me and I just can't function anymore, but the combination of the two really help me. We also started taking magnesium too after reading that it helps with anxiety. (we don't take a multi, iron always constipates my son...and I remember reading somewhere that Asperger people have a hard time with iron)

 

[mom3b1?]

Quote:

Originally Posted by myjulybabes Oh no way! I've gotta find that book. I've always said cats are autistic. I don't know about that... dh and I have Asperger's and ds has "classic" autism. A friend of mine has 3 kids...all on the spectrum. Anyway, that's all off topic. Sorry, I'll stop derailing the thread!

You must be a really neat family!

The psych and I had a talk about that when I told him I wanted him to test Charlie. He said it's not considered to be hereditary. I brought up that Dr. Asperger and other researchers have noted that parents who have divertent/Aspergery tendancies tend to have Asperger's kids, especially if it's the father. He said I had a point, but it's not an identifiable gene like some things are. We agreed that someday we may understand better. There are clearly some pieces of the puzzle missing.

In our case I think the boys dads and I are both Aspergery. I have ADHD, and passed it on to all three boys, and I'm a little bit quirky. Asperger boy 1's area of impairment is cognitive speed. His father is just the same, very intelligent and ultra slow. His father also has Borderline Personality Disorder, which is also a form of divergence in brain function (well that's probably not the technical way to say it, but it is a hard wired brain thing, and it is divergent). It's possible that he has Asperger's as well, but he'd have to get past his BPD to do the tests, and that's probably not going to happen. He won't see a psychiatrist because he knows they'll pick up on the BPD and hold him accountable for some of his behavior.

Interesting, isn't it?

Kiley

 

[kirk_heidi]

You could have been describing my oldest. He has been diagnosed with severe ADHD, ODD and a mood disorder (probably bi-polar but they don't want to say it yet). I wondered if he has Aspergers but when I read about it, it doesn't sound anything like my son. ADHD and bi-polar definitely do though. It sounds like you are on the right path. I would also recommend telling the mental health specialist what it is that you dont' see in your daughter that has to do with Asperger's so they can make an accurate diagnosis. I have learned that some of those people dont' really know as much as you think and it helps if you do some research too.

 

[faeriedreams]

Hello,
My 8 year old dd has Asperger's too. She has very similar issues about handwashing. She is very careful to always wash her hands, and becomes extremely distressed (and sometimes really disrespectful or aggressive) if her friends do not wash their hands after using the bathroom, and attempt to touch anything in the house. She has been able to express that she is highly concerned about the germs that people are rubbing onto her things. I wonder if her avoidance of him would improve if these issues were addressed. If you teach your younger son about your dd's diagnosis, and work with him on washing his hands more frequently and brushing his teeth on a regular basis, if dd would be more receptive to being around him. At the same time, I would work with dd and emphasis how hard her younger brother is trying to make things more comfortable to her, and teach her how to express the things that are bothering her in a more appropriate manner ("can you please wash your hands/brush your teeth/stop making that noise brother"). I have found that trying to meet dd's needs and providing accomodations for her areas of quirkiness work way better than trying to force her to stop whatever she is doing.
Good luck! There are some wonderful books on amazon that focus on teaching siblings/family members about the diagnosis.

 

[purplesmiley]

Thank you all for replying.

I'm still trying to come to terms with the fact that there really is something "wrong" with my DD after being in denial about it for so long. I know she hasn't had a proper diagnosis yet, but I've always known she's been different to other kids but never done anything about it till now when things have gotten so extreme.

Quote:

Lots of things freak him out, like showers, unexpected changes, small disappointments. He's got this thing about the color blue. If we are looking for shirts, cereal bowls, or whatever, and he can't find a blue one, he can go ballistic. He's more sad than angry. Sound familiar?

Very! It doesn't take much at all to upet her and her reaction is way over-the-top than you'd expect from the situation.

I will go and check out the books mentioned - maybe see if my local library have anything in before I go order anything. I know very little about Aspergers and am still trying to find out more info so I can help my DD.

I am going to print this thread out so I can work with the suggestions you've given me - thank you

 

[Trishy]

My ds is younger than your dd but has some similar issues. He was recently diagnosed with Asperger's and Oppositional Defiance Disorder. We haven't started any therapy yet but I am looking for therapists for him, along with the RDI book so I can start working with him at home.

Here's my thread so you can see what I have been dealing with:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=631509

 

[wendy1221]

I haven't read any of the replies, you probably already got this advice (I hope!), but in my experience (as an adult with Asperger's and a mother of 3 children, 1 diagnosed w/ AS, 1 w/ "just" sensory issues, and 1 who is in EI for developmental delays pointing towards AS) I have to say that almost ALWAYS, kids get violent when their sensory stimuli are just too much. Something (lots of things) is going on that's too much for her.

I think you need to find a good OT ASAP. Ask around to find a good one in your area. Our OT is making an amazing difference in our lives. I've even being doing some of the things she recommended in my kids' sensory diets and they're helping me as well. My dh brushes me sometimes and I've noticed I don't notice people touching me as much after I've been brushed.

None of my kids are oversensitive to smells, well, Damien is, but not bad. I used to have an extreme aversion to smells. When I was in college, I used to go to WalMart and sniff every perfume and shampoo until I couldn't smell anything anymore. I guess that's a form of therapy I did myself that you could do at home w/ things around the house, like cooking herbs and extracts (like vanilla), perfumes if you have any, lotions, etc. Or you could go get an aromatherapy kit and sniff all the different essential oils.

Our OT has us make Damien listen to this awful CD that's supposed to desensitize him to noise. I haven't been doing it b/c I hate listening to it, but I think it would be good for me as well. I'm also supposed to take the baby for FAST rides on my bike (I have a trailer) I've always been OVER sensitive to that kind of movement (avoided it at all costs), while he's very UNDER sensitive to it (started climbing the biggest slides at the playground before he could walk!), but I'm finding I'm starting to enjoy going FAST for the first time in my life. LOL! ANd I feel GREAT afterwards.

A good book to read about AS is Tony Attwood's "The Complete Guide to Asperger's Syndrome." It's really good. There are good books about kids w/ sensory issues, like the Out of Sync CHild series. I have read them, but I couldn't figure out how to incorporate them into our lives. After getting an OT evaluation and having her tell me which category my kids fit into, I've been able to pick up the book again (Out of Sync Child Has Fun) and know which ones are good for which of my children. I couldn't have done it w/out the OT's help. I have a really hard time applying what I've read to real situations.