Mothering Forum banner

1 - 13 of 13 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,190 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm trying to think of birth plan stuff and want to know what everyone is doing regarding vitamin K and 3rd stage (placenta)<br><br>
I've seen the MDC no no no stance, but still don't understand why the vit K and pitocin injection are evil, maybe someone can better explain how they made their choice?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,337 Posts
My feeling is that the baby isn't born deficient of something it truly needs (i.e. Vitamin K), so it doesn't make any sense to give a blanket injection to every baby. There are rare cases that the baby does not have enough Vit K and in those cases the injection is warranted. But they are very rare. I try to take steps before birth to ensure that the baby has enough Vit K (eating foods rich in it, drinking tea with alfalfa and nettle).<br><br>
As far as pitocin injection, are you talking about after the baby is born to help expel the placenta? That's completely unnecessary, unless you have a truly retained placenta. Hospitals simply do not allow for enough time to naturally expel the placenta and prefer to speed it along, which I don't think is right. It can take several hours for the placenta to deliver, and there is nothing wrong with that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,190 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
They had to give DS the vit K they said cause of the ventouse, but yeah at the time I hadn't a clue so this time I want to be better informed.<br><br><br>
my 3rd stage was 7 mins last time <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/eyesroll.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="roll"> I guess it was the shot and them pulling it out.<br><br>
I'm not against waiting, a few hours may be much, but 7 mins? They didn't even TRY to leave it. But they said I could bleed to death<br><br>
So this time I want to know more
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
969 Posts
Here is a good summation of the reasons we chose not to use vitamin K with our boys and won't again...<br><a href="http://www.birthingnaturally.net/barp/vitk.html" target="_blank">http://www.birthingnaturally.net/barp/vitk.html</a><br><br>
Personally I am a strong believer in "if it ain't broke don't fix it". Both of my placentas were birthed naturally within 30 minutes of labor. I don't think there is any need for injection excpet for true retained placenta.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,969 Posts
I've gotten the vitamin k shot even though I hadnt been sure I wanted it, not sure if I'm doing it this time or not. In a normal, healthy birth, I just cant imagine it being needed.<br><br>
As far as pit after birth, theres no reason for it unless you are hemorrhaging or not having your uterus clamp down like it should. It also causes the after birth pains to be MUCH more intense. I had it after my last one because I hemorrhaged after my surro baby (and I didnt want it either, my midwife did it anyway...evil lady....lol jk) and it definately made it worse.<br><br>
Also, no one, NO ONE should be pulling the placenta out!!! Doing that can lead to a chunk being left behind and a hemorrhage. If you stand up, it'll pretty much fall out once its detached, theres no reason to take that risk.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,368 Posts
The vitamin K injection has aluminum as a preservative, which is an issue for me. We did it with DS1, didn't with DS2, might do it with DS3...I'm undecided.<br><br>
Oral vitamin K is not as effective as injected in getting the vitamin K into baby's blood stream and it requires more than the 1-2 doses that are usually given. According to the studies, to truly work, it has to be given in 4 doses, with the last one being around 6 weeks. But NO ONE (and I do mean NO ONE) administers it that way. I'm not aware of any studies that show the current protocol (1 dose w/i 24 hours and sometimes another dose at 1-2 weeks) is effective at all.<br><br>
So if you want it to be effective (in preventing the *very* rare hemmoragic disease of the newborn--HDN...which although rare *is* some SCARY stuff!), the injection is the way to go. Or if you just want to satisfy the authorities and not be bugged about it, the oral will work. Or you can take the mindset and a normal birth that doesn't result in undue trauma to baby should not mean that baby needs supplementation of something baby wasn't born with...<br><br>
My mindset is that in a birth that isn't traumatic for baby (no vacuum, forceps, malpresentation, etc), the likeliness of needing vitamin K is pretty slim because baby won't need to use ALL of his vitamin K stores to clot off those birth injuries, KWIM? But of course, I am not aware of any studies that look for a correlation between traumatic birth and HDN, so that is PURELY speculation on my part (though I'm not the only one to speculate in that direciton).<br><br>
Re: pitocin. It's just another thing that your body has to metabolize in the days after the birth and it is designed to help you expel the placenta more quickly. Some providers will give in right at birth, some won't give it until after the placenta is out. Either way, it's to prevent hemmorhage but the #1 cause of third stage hemmorhage is mismanagement of the third stage, including rushing the placenta. It would be a much wiser choice for providers to BE PATIENT in third stage, but that's a lot to ask in the hospital when your doc or midwife is prolly trying to get back to the office to see more patients.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
426 Posts
This was one that I struggled with my first and decided to do the oral vit. K after he was born (by the way he spit most of it out so I'm sure it did nothing anyway).<br><br>
After looking into it, being a doula and teaching childbirth education classes, I decided that Vit. k is not the worst thing...if it needs to be done. Usually a prolonged pushing time OR a super fast delivery can be pretty tough on babies head and that MAY be a time when you would want to consider the vit. k. The injection is absorbed much better, but even the oral probably would help out in those cases if you can't stand the idea of giving baby a shot (that's a hard one for me) or the preservatives that are used in the shot (I don't know if there are aluminum preservatives in the oral?).<br><br>
As for pitocin, I ended up getting a shot of it after my first, after the placenta was delivered (20 minutes after the birth). I bled quite a bit, and my very non-medical, non-interventionist midwife told me that she was very close to giving me a transfusion for all the blood that I lost. I've also had a few mums as clients whose placenta came out in due time, but for one reason or another were bleeding quite a bit at home and so were given the pitocin shot (which sometimes is followed up by another shot if that doesn't stop the bleeding). As a routine injection, it does seem silly, but again I think there is a time and place for some of these interventions. Personally I'd rather have a shot of pit at home, as opposed to going to the hospital for complications. Some of these decisions are hard to make at the time, so if you discuss it BEFOREHAND with your partner and support people the situations where you may be ok with certain things, then it certainly can help make you feel like you made the best decision. Of course, it's always nice to have a doula around to give you this information at the time too!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,662 Posts
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">
<div>Originally Posted by <strong>alyssatuininga</strong> <a href="/community/forum/post/11579838"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/community/img/forum/go_quote.gif" style="border:0px solid;"></a></div>
<div style="font-style:italic;">Here is a good summation of the reasons we chose not to use vitamin K with our boys and won't again...<br><a href="http://www.birthingnaturally.net/barp/vitk.html" target="_blank">http://www.birthingnaturally.net/barp/vitk.html</a><br><br>
Personally I am a strong believer in "if it ain't broke don't fix it". Both of my placentas were birthed naturally within 30 minutes of labor. I don't think there is any need for injection excpet for true retained placenta.</div>
</td>
</tr></table></div>
thats pretty much my thought too.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
388 Posts
I did not do Vit K with DS and don't plan to with this next one unless there is some trauma during birth.<br><br>
I didn't know some providers give Pitocin routinely before the placenta is birthed? I did have Pitocin after the placenta birthed for major postpartum hemorrhage (and was taken by ambulance to hospital) <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"> Hoping for no hemorrhage this time! But my mw may do Pitocin earlier this time b/c of history of hemorrhage <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"> I'd rather have it than bleed to death, certainly, but I'm still not settled about it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,066 Posts
In some instances, vitamin k would be beneficial...like during a rough traumatic birth, forceps delivery, or even if you're planning to circ before you leave. There is a natural vitamin k dump in the baby's system around day 6, and is why traditionally circ'ing doesn't happen until after that. Assuming everything goes fine, the baby really doesn't need the extra vitamin k...neither by injection nor orally. There are about equal risks to childhood cancers and leukemia from having the vitamin k injection, as there is to there being a problem and needing the injection. So, do your homework on this one. <a href="http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2004/05/26/vitamin-k-injections.aspx" target="_blank">http://articles.mercola.com/sites/ar...njections.aspx</a><br><br>
As far as pitocin being administered for the placenta...that's mostly just because doctors don't want to wait around for it to happen naturally. Many will tug and pull on it trying to get it to detach and can cause hemorraging, rip the uterus, rip the placenta leaving chunks inside and many other things. I too have heard doctors threaten women that they will bleed more if they allow it to seperate on it's own. And quite frankly it's just poppycock, a flat out lie and a scare tactic. Tugging and pulling unnaturally on a placenta to try to force it to seperate from the uterine wall can cause abnormal bleeding and dangers! It's not usually needed, and I even go so far in birth plans to state no tugging or pulling on the cord to expell placenta and to allow breastfeeding attempts immediately to help naturally cause contractions to expell the placenta.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,594 Posts
One of the downfalls of pit is that it blocks the release of natural oxytocin, which can interfere with bonding and breastfeeding initiation. I think it had a lot to do with the ppd and detachment from my daughter.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,662 Posts
<div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px;">
<div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px;">Quote:</div>
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="99%"><tr><td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset;">In some instances, vitamin k would be beneficial...or even if you're planning to circ before you leave. There is a natural vitamin k dump in the baby's system around day 6, and is why traditionally circ'ing doesn't happen until after that.</td>
</tr></table></div>
yeh, i can see needing vit K if someone is planning on having their newborn undergo surgery upon birth. if anyone is considering circ., there is a great forum here "the case against circumicison" that has a lot of very good, educational information about many of the reasons NOT to do this unnecessary surgical procedure, especially on an unborn child who is unable to voice his opinion on the matter. <img alt="" class="inlineimg" src="http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/greensad.gif" style="border:0px solid;" title="greensad"><br><br>
Paq, thanks for posting about the interference of Pit on bonding and bf'ing. I meant to say something about that and completely flaked in my reply...mainly b/c i was being lazy when posting earlier. I have read that many times though. I'll happily wait around in bed for my placenta to deliver (even if for hours) rather than risk damage to my bf'ing relationship or bonding experience.
 
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Top