[bright_eyes]

My friend's naturalpath beleives that you can utilize/absorb calcium without vitamin F. He says that a lot of people take calcium supplements and can't even benefit from it because they are not also taking vitamin F. So he has prescribed vitamin F, along with calcium, for my friend.

Has anyone ever heard this before? I have NEVER heard of vitamin F, let alone it affecting calcium absorbtion/utilization. I googled it and most sites say that it is just essential fatty acids and that EFA's used to be called vitamin F. If that's the case, then why in the world would her naturalpath call it vitamin F still? I don't get why he would give her an actual supplement labeled vitamin F instead of telling her to make sure she consumes enought EFA's.

So does that mean that EFA are essential for calcium to work properly in our bodies?

 

[Norai]

Never heard of it... I have heard of vitamin A and D being useful to help calcium absorption, which is probably why milk is fortified with it.

 

[hummingmom]

Do you mean the kind from Standard Process? IMO, it's amazing stuff, and it's helped my family tremendously with health problems. We always take it if we're coming down with an illness, or if we're going to be out in the sun. The vitamin F ointment (called USF Ointment, for "unsaturated fats") is also great for burns.

As for what it is... good question, LOL. It's one of the essential fatty acids, but not one that's been specifically identified yet, as far as I can tell. The best food source is beef liver fat. You can also make it in your body from flax oil, but not everyone is capable of making the conversion, especially if they have a wonky liver. So it sounds like DHA, right? But it's not found in fish oil... or rather, the kind that's in fish oil doesn't work the same way.

I'll try to find links to some relevant articles. The way I've heard it explained is that vitamin D helps to "load" calcium into the blood, and vitamin F helps to "unload" it at the other end. This was from a holistic practitioner... but I think it's actually pretty well established, even in mainstream medicine, that EFA's are required for proper calcium metabolism.

I've also heard speculation that vitamin F (at least, this particular kind) is the same thing as Dr. Price's Activator X. If true, this would kind of blow a hole in the "Activator x = vitamin K2" theory. Unless vitamin K2 is actually an EFA. That seems unlikely, but given that choline is now classified as a B-vitamin, and vitamin D is considered a hormone rather than a vitamin, who knows.

Anyway, whatever it is, it works!

 

[bright_eyes]

Thanks hummingmom! Yes, she takes the stuff from Standard Process. She said that her naturalpath thinks it is the best company to get supplements from.

You've summed up why I'm confused about it. Some sites make it sound like it is just EFA, but others made it sound like it is made up of EFA's but isn't quite the same as the usual EFA's (the ones that have been identified). That makes sense that it is ONE of the EFA's that we need.

I read that the most natural sources are found in vegetable oils like wheat germ, linseed, sunflower, safflower, soybean, and peanut. And that it can also be found in peanuts, sunflower seeds, walnuts, pecans, almonds, and avocados.

But it's also found in beef liver? Do you know how much beef liver you would need to eat and how often to get enough vitamin F?

 

[hummingmom]

Sorry, I wasn't thinking straight when I said that beef liver was a good food source.

That's where they get the stuff that they put in the supplements, but they have to extract it from the liver fat through some sort of special process, and I have no clue how much liver you'd need to eat to get that much. Raw pastured butter *is* supposed to be a good food source, and if eaten regularly it should provide enough for the average person. Cold-pressed, unrefined oils -- such as wheat germ, flax, or peanut oil -- should also do the trick, though it's hard to find ones that aren't rancid.

For significant health problems, though, I haven't yet found a food that works as well as the supplements. I've been trying to find one for quite a while now, as I've had to stop taking the supplements myself because they contain other ingredients (such as oat flour) which I'm not able to have.

Okay, my tired old brain cells are creaking away here and they just came up with something, LOL. I'm remembering that back when I was looking into this, I found out that vitamin F -- at least, the super potent kind that's helped me so much -- is almost certainly a particular form (isomer) of arachidonic acid. Which is funny, because AA is an omega-6 PUFA that's widely believed to be a "Very Bad Fat." For instance, the Zone Diet guy thinks it's totally evil, and responsible for all the world's problems, pretty much.

But the WAPF web site has this to say about it:

Myth: Arachidonic acid in foods like liver, butter and egg yolks causes production of "bad" inflammatory prostaglandins.

Truth: Series 2 prostaglandins that the body makes from arachidonic acid both encourage and inhibit inflammation under appropriate circumstances. Arachidonic acid is vital for the function of the brain and nervous system. (Price-Pottenger Nutrition Foundation Journal 20:3)

From what I've read, mainstream science doesn't seem to acknowledge the significance of different isomers of arachidonic acid (even though they're definitely known to exist, and can change form within the body). Neither does WAPF, from the sound of it. But I'm certainly open to the concept. I'm inclined to believe that Royal Lee, the founder of Standard Process, knew a great deal more about science and nutrition than the entire WAPF board put together. No insult meant to them, but he was a super genius.

Meanwhile, my own mind feels like a sieve right now. It must be the lean meat cooked in olive oil that I ate for dinner. I can feel the cell membranes in my brain dissolving from lack of suitable isomers of AA. I have to go eat a steak with butter and eggs on top.

 

[hummingmom]

Wow... I'm supposed to be asleep by now, but I just came across a German paper from 2008 that talks about the mechanism for salicylate intolerance (which affects several of us in my family), and it turns out that arachidonic acid is a key player. And I found a reference to Japanese research showing that AA is low in the serum of people with CFS (which I've been diagnosed with in the past, though I've been inclined to resist taking on the label).

Thank you SO much for bringing up this topic! I had planned to research the vitamin F thing more, but never got around to it, what with all the other stuff going on here. Meanwhile, I've been completely fed up with having to constantly micromanage my diet and lifestyle to work around all of these "mystery ailments." This information gives me hope that one day I'll be able to get to the root of what's going on.

 

[hummingmom]

Okay, just learned something else. Apparently, in Dr. Lee's time, "arachidonic acid" was often used as a more generic term. It could refer to what we now know as AA, or to other fatty acids of similar structure. So it's possible that the "special type of arachidonic acid" that's found in the vitamin F tablets might be something we now know by another name.

If this is the case, it seems like another omega-6 fatty acid, DGLA (dihomo-gamma-linolenic acid), would be a front-runner. It's essential for many bodily functions, but some people lack the enzyme to produce it in sufficient amounts. Unlike arachidonic acid, it's very hard to get from dietary sources -- even raw, unrefined, nutrient-dense foods -- but there is some in beef liver. Fortunately, most people seem to be pretty good at making their own DGLA, as long as they have sufficient amounts of other unrefined fats in their diet. Otherwise, the human race would be in sorry shape.

Which reminds me... getting back to the OP: Royal Lee didn't believe that everyone should be taking vitamin F, or any other supplements, on a regular basis (except perhaps for a daily food-based "multivitamin" such as Catalyn, if there was any doubt about the quality and freshness of the locally available foods). He was very much a supporter of the natural, whole foods approach to nutrition. Whenever he was asked to talk about one of his company's products, he also explained how the same effects could be achieved through diet, and encouraged people to do the latter if possible. As it turns out, though, most practitioners and patients -- then and now -- have preferred the convenience of the "pop a pill" approach. As a result, Standard Process products have always sold very well, while much of the nutritional wisdom behind them has been overlooked.

 

[bright_eyes]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hummingmom Cold-pressed, unrefined oils -- such as wheat germ, flax, or peanut oil -- should also do the trick, though it's hard to find ones that aren't rancid.

How can if flax oil is rancid? I just bought some for the first time from the hfs. It is cold pressed and was kept refridgerated at the store. I've never had it before so I can't compare it to anything to know if it is okay or not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hummingmom Which reminds me... getting back to the OP: Royal Lee didn't believe that everyone should be taking vitamin F, or any other supplements, on a regular basis (except perhaps for a daily food-based "multivitamin" such as Catalyn, if there was any doubt about the quality and freshness of the locally available foods). He was very much a supporter of the natural, whole foods approach to nutrition. Whenever he was asked to talk about one of his company's products, he also explained how the same effects could be achieved through diet, and encouraged people to do the latter if possible. As it turns out, though, most practitioners and patients -- then and now -- have preferred the convenience of the "pop a pill" approach. As a result, Standard Process products have always sold very well, while much of the nutritional wisdom behind them has been overlooked.

I LOVE this! I really, really struggle with the concept of everyone needing to take supplements. I want to believe so badly that we can get what we need from food, barring any specific health issues that might need something. Where did you learn about Royal Lee? Did he write any books?

 

[bright_eyes]

I wonder if I would benefit from vitamin F. I sometimes wonder if I have a calcium defiiciency. I have had unexplainable leg pains my entire life. It's not the usual muscle cramps that are usually associated with leg cramps. It's not in the muscles at all. It feels more like it's the bone, but not quite. It's more like all the pain receptors in my legs (except for my muscle, they feel totally unaffected) are just firing. It's an odd feeling. Anyway, I've often felt that it was related to calcium and have taken various supplements off and on. Maybe I could be deficient in vitamin F, since it's related to calcium. I should try it out to see if it would make a difference.

Oh, how do you know if you have a salicylate intolerance? I know nothing about this other than salicylates are found in vegetables (right???).

 

[hummingmom]

Sorry, I've been meaning to get back to this thread for a while, but things kept coming up.

1) Regarding rancid oils -- I'm extra sensitive to the smell, so I just use my nose. I've found that most cold-pressed, unrefined oils from the HFS are only good for a week or two once they're opened, even if they're kept in the freezer. If you want more specific advice, you might try starting another thread, as there are some very knowledgeable people on here.

2) Regarding Royal Lee -- He didn't write any books for laypeople, because as a supplement manufacturer, he would have been arrested for "false advertising" under the FDA regulations at the time. He did give many lectures, and sometimes wrote articles for the popular press. You can read many of these articles at the following sites. The latter two have been specifically set up to publish and promote his writings, so they also have a variety of books available and other media.

Soil and Health Library (fascinating site, full of all kinds of valuable stuff; it's where I first came across Dr. Lee's nutritional advice)
International Foundation for Nutrition and Health
Selene River Press

The Price Pottenger Nutrition Foundation also has an archive of his unpublished materials, which they'll make available for a photocopying fee. I have a copy of their bibliography, which lists the articles that they have. I think they number in the hundreds. If you're interested in a particular subject, let me know and I'll be happy to look it up.

3) Regarding leg cramps -- they're strongly suggestive of low ionized calcium, which is supposed to be due to vitamin F deficiency. There's a test you can do at home, where you put a blood pressure cuff on your calf, and see how high you can inflate it before you scream "OWW!!!" Fun for the whole family.

I'll have to look up the procedure, as it's been a while since we tried it.

4) Regarding salicylates -- try searching MDC for "Failsafe." Lots of threads on the subject.

Okay, I have to go, my kids are killing each other.

 

[hummingmom]

Just bumping this thread for Jimibell, who posted in the TF forum about problems with calcium metabolism.

For vertigo caused by calcium deposits, Lee suggested:

- Vitamin F from fresh-pressed nut or seed oils, or high-quality grass-fed butter (or Cataplex F tablets)
- Phosphoric acid from freshly ground whole grains, raw nuts and seeds, fresh meat, etc. (or Phosfood drops)
- Fat-soluble vitamin complex -- including vitamins E, K, carotenes, and co-factors -- from plants including alfalfa, green peas, sunflower and sesame seeds, and leafy greens (or Chlorophyll Complex capsules)

 

[Theloose]

:

And linking my prostaglandin thread, cause it's along the same lines
http://mothering.com/discussions/sho....php?t=1081008

 

[WuWei]

Haven't read the whole thread, but I do recall that the black seeds Nigella sativa (Neveryoumindthere's black seeds used for 3000 years and revered by the Prophet Muhammad ("Black Seed is the cure for all ailments except death.") ) have FIVE as yet, unidentified fatty acids.

From my brief reading, apparently, there are many, many different fatty acids present in seeds and nuts. And we are dissecting them and studying them in Western Science, without the interconnection of the Whole Food. And putting part of the whole in a capsule/pill and marketing it.

Pat