[PONOKELAMAMA]

My son who is 30 months and a baby/toddler and mama who have always LOVED nursing, are now ready to close this page. we have slowly taken away one nurse very gradually and he is now down one when he wakes up in the morning, one to falling alseep nursing, one when he wakes up from his nap, and one to mellow him out before he goes to sleep with dad. so, although we are ready to get rid of these last nursings, i have no idea what to say! i have heard the "mommy has a owie" and cold turkey, "we do not do noy-noy anymore" or the "big boys do not need noy-noy, just for babies" and NONE of those work for us at ALL! i am sure there are a million other ways to explain to a two and a half year old, but i am for the first time at a loss of words. please send any ideas our way! we want this to be a pleasant experience and we mutaully are both ready to do be done but we also do not push anything on kaleb that he is not ready to do. open to suggestions, what are words you have used that worked and kept both mommy and baby happy?

mahalo!
jessie

ps....i have read Mothering YOur Nursing Toddler and i will admit, i felt very disappointed in their weaning section. it seems if you are not fitting into the child led weaning department, they have no advice. although ds has not said "i want to wean" we both have felt it is time whether it be in words or not. so, i could use some advice for how to mutally call it quits, if that makes sense.

 

[Britishmum]

I just cut down the lenght of time of each of these nursings, and for some of them told dd we'd nurse 'for ten' and counted to ten. Gradually she started stopping at four or five, to count with me!

Other nursings, wehn she was sleepy or just woken up, for example, I counted in my head to, say 100, so that I knew I was being consistent, before stopping her and singing or cuddling or suggesting a story or activity. I counted because then I knew that I was being consistent, then gradually cut it to 90, 80, and so on, until it was so short that she almost didnt want to bother. She then started suggesting the singing or activity or book rather than nursing.

This way took a little longer than cold turkey, but she didnt realise she was weaning, while I had the feeling of control and knowing we were cutting back. It was gentle and kind, and I'm glad we did it this way. She weaned completely just before her third birthday.

 

[Turtle Woman]

I had to stop cold turkey tandem nursing my dd's because I was hospitalized for a breast infection that went into my blood stream. I let them hold their "beebee's" for about a month and then transitioned to cuddles. They were mad but only for a few days at the very beginning and especially at night. I know our situation was different but it really helped them to know I still loved them and I told them I loved them a lot. My dd1 still asks me for snuggles but not the boobie holding.

 

[DaryLLL]

When you say "we" are ready to wean, I am confused. Do you mean you and your ds are ready, or you and someone else?

If he was ready, would you need to say any of the phrases you suggest? Nursing 4x/day does not sound like ds is ready to wean, as well as when you use those phrases and they do not have the impact you would like.

:

 

[PONOKELAMAMA]

Thanks mammas!!
I think i was a bit unclear in the midst of my thoughts, we HAVE NOT said anything to him about weaning yet. my examples of things to say about weaning (mama has an owie) are just things i have heard other mammas say which i am very uncomfortable with. DaryLLL, when i say "we" are ready to quit, i mean my ds, myself and my husband. it has really been a three way street for us and we all are feeling like we are just lingering with those last four nursings, and they all have lost their flair. from your user namei am assuming you are from La Leche League, have you heard of the spark being lost in nursing toddlers? it has become a habit instead of a comfort or hunger thing for my ds, which is a bit suprising considering we have always cherished our time nursing. let me know if you have any more suggestions. and britishmum, i think your idea sounds right on for kalebs personality. i want this to be gentle but initiated at the same time! i think we are going to give it a try! thanks!!!!!

 

[callmemama]

My almost-4yo is down to 2 nursings a day and is not ready to wean! But it sounds like you are ready (and all the literature says BOTH parties must want to continue), How Weaning Happens is a very good book that offers suggestions and examples of weaning at all ages.

 

[cdahlgrd]

I would tell ds that we would nurse later or suggest another activity. I dropped one nursing a week or so. Finally when we were down to once a day I started to be busy during that time. He nursed less and less frequently for several months (until July 5). He has asked to nurse in the last week, but I just said "Let's cuddle instead." He was OK with that.

I feel we did it very gently, but I still miss it sometimes. Good luck!!

 

[Dar]

Is it wrong for nursing to be a habit? I'm a bit lost with the flair thing, really... and I agree with Daryl, that if your son wants to wean too then there's no need to do any of this, he'll just do it... it sounds like you want to believe that he wants to wean, maybe that would make it easier for you, but if he wants to, he will, and you won't have to do or say anything... if you want to, I think you'll need to start by admitting that it's about you.

I also think why you want to wean is an important part of the equation. You're giving up a nice, easy way to mellow your son out, to ease his wakening, to soothe his owies... what are you hoping to gain in return? Is there another way you can gain this?

Dar

 

[Ellie'sMom]

Mamas: I don't want to be judgemental here, but OP doesn't seem to be asking anyone's opinion of whether or not she is going to continue down the path towards weaning. She had a particular question which she has gotten some answers for. Is it our place to ask her to justify her desire to wean or the way she expresses it?

Please don't flame me as I mean no disrespect, but we all make different choices and I would like to think that we can all find support here.

I am usually pretty non-confrontational, so I am a bit scared to hit submit, but here goes...

 

[Lil'M]

PONOKELAMAMA-
Have you checked out the book "Nursing Mother's Guide to Weaning"? It gives a lot of gentle suggestions for different kinds of weaning at different ages.

And I wanted to give you some company in the ready to wean/recently weaned camp. My 3yr old dd just weaned on her birthday a few weeks ago. She had become really sporadic (like sometimes going 2 weeks without asking) and no matter what I tried, she always hurt me and left deep teeth grooves on my nipple and I really felt I could more enthusiastically mother her when I wasn't resenting the nursing so much. For 6 months she had been saying that she would be all done when she was 3, so that's what we did. She picked out her own weaning present and although she has asked a few times since to nurse, she can be more or less placated with a nice snuggle.

Every nursing relationship is different and what works for one family might not for another.

-Miriam

 

[PONOKELAMAMA]

Lil'M, i have heard of the book "Nursing Mothers Guide To Weaning" before and i think i should pick it up and check it out. As far as my nursing realtionship with kaleb is concerned, WE are ready to gradually quit nursing. It is not something i have taken lightly and i do not expect to happen overnight, and perhaps not even in the next six months. it is about me and kaleb both being ready to finish, and yes i may want to be done more than him at this point but it is all part of a balance we have found to keep everyone happy. but, as much as i appreciate all the advice, i think it some advice is just coming from the child led weaning perspective which does not work for me, my husband(who is SOOOO supportive) which means it proably wont work for kaleb if we are not into it. i fully understand and honor all you lovin mammas out there that it DOES indeed work for, but not us. it has made me rethink what i am doing and actually made me feel a bit more reassured in the choices i am making for this relationship. so besides that "what to say" advice, i thank all you for support, whether direct or not. and, i truly appreciate all the different nursing reltionships more now as well! thank you again!

 

[rrr]

sorry, mama, but i'm with daryLLL.

if you had said your son was down to 1 to 2 nursings a day, he would sound a lot more ready to me.

4 nursings sounds like it's an integral part of his life and health still.

as far as nursing for habit, he's hardly past the norm for our species. the world weaning average is age 4, and that's just the average.

the world health org. recommends 2 years minimum with no recommended weaning age.

they promote that because it saves the lives of babies and toddlers all over the world. we promote early weaning in our society because we have clean water and lots of food.

do you want to talk about why nursing is bugging you at this point? if not, i'll drop out here.

rrr

 

[DaryLLL]

I am not trying to judge whether or not the ds is ready to wean. I do wonder what he is doing to make P.MAMA think nursing has "lost its flair" for him, that it is a habit, not a need? Is he only nursing for 3 minutes and distractedly then? --- being too acrobatic or rude and making the exp unpleasant? Insisting on nursing for 45 mins until mom is ready to scream?

If it is a habit now, is it a bad habit, or a warm comforting loving one?

Why does her dh think it is time to wean? Does he think ds is "too old," or does he have other reasons?

I am speaking as a mom who did not do fully child-led weaning. I weaned 2 while pg and my nipples were extremely painful. One dd was 2 1/2 and not ready. She was fairly traumatized. I tried to make it up to her as best I could. In hindsight, I wish I had let her resume after the baby came.

Dd#2 did not seem ready to wean either, but once I weaned her, she was actually happier and never looked back, started sleeping better. She was 3 1/2 and spirited. She preferred to not nurse at all, rather than have me let her sometimes but set limits because of my pain.

Ds was 4 1/2. At 3 he was nursing still 8x/day, but getting very little milk (I pumped when we were separated at that age, in 36 hours I got 8 oz of milk!). But the nursing was still comforting to him. A yr or so later, he was down to one nurse a day, before bed. He would nurse for 3 mins, not to sleep, just out of "habit." I knew he could go to sleep without it as long as I laid next to him. So I prepared him for it, we talked about it for 3 days, then we did it. No trauma.

I share my exps' in case it helps you see how the process of non-child-led, but child-respectful weaning may go. Nursing a toddler/pre-schooler is a relationship, and everyone's feelings need to be respected. Usually we put more emphasis on the mom and baby, and ask Dad to respect the intensity of the nursing relationship, but his feelings do end up being part of it to a degree. If your feelings and his are on the same page, that is to the better.

Certainly you have nursed way, way longer than the average US woman! How Weaning Happens is a book of stories about moms and babies who weaned at different ages. It is directed at natural weaning. Reading other moms stories may give a variety of ideas to try, as different things work for different families.

One other great book, for general communication skills that could be helpful here, is How To Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk. It emphasizes reflecting the child's feelings back at him, without judgement, without telling him your feelings until he feels fully heard and understood. A child who know his feelings are being respected in this way will be more willing to brainstorm a different sleeptime routine that may include less, or no, nursing.

 

[mrzmeg]

I just wanted to give my support and (((hugs))) to the OP. I know this was a difficult decision for you to make and I hope all goes smoothly with this process

. And kudos to you for nursing for 30 months! That is no small feat.

Please remember mamas, it is easy to go too far with the child-led weaning bit, persuading mothers to go the other way. Jessie is clearly a well-informed, loving mother who came here for *support*.

I've heard that a lot of kids respond well to the idea of a weaning party, where they decide on the date, etc. I hope you find a method that works for you!

 

[ldsapmom]

I agree the OP has gone above and beyond the norm and should be praised and recognized for that. I think it is important for us to not import our own ideas here, but help as help is needed, trying to suspend our own judgement.

I think amongst the AP crowd, especially those who are big proponants of child-led weaning, it is "blasphemy" to talk about moms wanting to wean their kids. I am not saying this is the OP point of view or the place she is at, I am saying in general.

My four year old just weaned on his 4th birthday. I was all about child-led weaning. When people would say, "Oh, at the end he was just nursing once a day or once a week, or once every two weeks" I could not relate. My son, up until the day he weaned cold turkey, nursed at least 8 times a day -- most days MORE!!!

I was SO ready for him to wean -- so ready! But then I would guilt myself into, "But I believe in child-led weaning, and he is not ready." So I stuck it out. I tandem nursed for almost 2 years. Having a second child allowed me to see my boys were different -- Jacob had a very strong desire and need to nurse. Isaac is totally different. Once Jacob weaned, Isaac has cut down his nursings GREATLY; it was like Jacob's strong need to nurse reminded Isaac to nurse.

Jacob started telling me he was going to wean on his 4th birthday. I only half-hearted believed him. He started this in the spring, and his birthday is in September. I verbally supported him, and when we would talk about weaning, or sit and nurse, I would ask him, "What other things can we do when you stop nursing?" I wanted us to have a mental stock-pile of alternative activities to do when he would feel he wanted to nurse. He said, "We can snuggle; we can read books; we can do a puzzle, we can tell secrets." He would hit the same ones and slowly add a few new ones. Being able to talk about this and prepare him was a great aid for us.

When his birhtday came, lo and behold he knew he was going to stop, but he wanted to nurse. I reminded him he was 4 now. He got sad and said, "It is hard to stop nursing." I agreed and said it was, because he had been nursing all his life. I fully expected to see regressive behaviors, tantrums (he used to throw the most awful rages), generall unstableness or unsteadiness. He had one meltdown the morning after his birthday which had to do with wanting to nurse, but it also had to do with wanting chocolate birthday cake for breaskfast (I finally broke down and let him eat cake for breakfast and the upset was gone).

Things have gone suprisingly well. He does still like to put his hand on my breast, but even that was dropped in number of daily occurance.

I had a totally flexible idea about this weaning -- I must admit I did not really have the faith he would do it. I was totally prepared, if I had seen upset in his normal behavioral patterns, to let him continue and try again at another time.

One thing I know that has helped others is to let your child pick out a day on the calendar and have that be the weaning day. Have a weaning party and a celebration to mark the end of such a special relationship.

Nursing is a symbiotic relationship -- if it is not working for one, it is not working -- period. If something can be done to change it a bit so both parties can keep it going, great, but if not, something needs to give.

 

[PONOKELAMAMA]

Thank You Idsapmom and mrzmeg for such encouraging words of advice and thank you everyone for sharing your stories. I guess we cannot be reminded enough as to how different each individual child and nursing relationship is! Just hearing stories as to how things have worked, or not worked, for everyone reminds me how important of a decision this is for us and i now feel very reassured that we are ready to wean, but in a very gentle and slow manner! it could be nine months from nowand we still nurse twice a day, but i guess my main goal is to eliminate the nursings that are not "needed" in my opinion. just this past week, kaleb has not nursed when he wakes up from his nap and when given a choice between nursing and "something different" he says he would like to do something different. whether it be the beach or a trip to the aquarium, we feel revived again to be enjoying the other nursings during the day, and are really having fun doing "something different instead" the rest of the time. Thank Goodness, the "flair" is back in EB as we take away the "blah" nursings. Thank you mammas for your encourgement!